Zahra Baker Search and Recovery Effort and Input

[Mountain_Kat]

We do know from descriptions today, the water ranged from quite shallow up to 5 foot in depth, well if the media is correct.

So maybe we got lucky, water from boulder area down isn't flowing, and area around the bridge search is fairly shallow.

Let's hope so anyway.

 

[nursebeeme]

as per the weather.. it may be good now.. but the area suffered lots of rains in the past few weeks.

If part of her were disposed of near this creek I think the rains could affect that?

((((following is moo: but I would bet that if she was disposed of in multiple locations that plastic bags were involved... and hopefully that will bear well for investigators... again moo)))))

 

[raisincharlie]

So maybe we got lucky, water from boulder area down isn't flowing, and area around the bridge search is fairly shallow.

Let's hope so anyway.

I am hoping so with you.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

as per the weather.. it may be good now.. but the area suffered lots of rains in the past few weeks.

If part of her were disposed of near this creek I think the rains could affect that?

((((following is moo: but I would bet that if she was disposed of in multiple locations that plastic bags were involved... and hopefully that will bear well for investigators... again moo)))))

Yes, but I'm only 2 hours away, and we've had a dry summer here. So if water levels were really low before these rains, creek might still be shallow and flow still not up over the boulder area.

 

[nursebeeme]

I'm curious about flow rates and water level.

the storms that swept thru there in the last few weeks had significant rains and most likely flooding (rise in water level)... if you look closely at the locals pictures thread you can see obvious standing water puddles in some of them, etc.

One media outlet described the storm that hit NC as a Category 2 Huricaine in force, winds, and other characteristics.

 

[Virgogalsue]

Wouldn't she have to wait quite a while, though, before the remains would be released to her once they are found? I would guess they would intensely test the remains and maybe want to keep them frozen for a time until all the evidence they can gain from them is gotten. My heart breaks so much for her having to do such a thing. I hope this report is accurate, too, and we are getting very near recovering Zahra's body.

I think that would depend upon the evidence that they have and whether it can overwhelmingly demonstrate what happened to Zahra. If it is obvious, I believe her remains would be able to be released to her family fairly quickly.

 

[sarx]

OK did someone post flow rates? Lost it!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

the storms that swept thru there in the last few weeks had significant rains and most likely flooding (rise in water level)... if you look closely at the locals pictures thread you can see obvious standing water puddles in some of them, etc.

One media outlet described the storm that hit NC as a Category 2 Huricaine in force, winds, and other characteristics.

But this is a big creek. It would take more than just a few serious rainfalls to raise the water level significantly if the season itself were dry. I'd think so anyway...not an expert on creeks.

 

[Oriah]

You guys are doing a great job of keeping this thread on topic as well as saving LE and SAR a lot of background work that otherwise they would have to wade through, using very valuable time. Remember that the sooner we find Zahra, the earlier evidence becomes available to the prosecution, so speed is always of essence even when investigations seem to drag on forever. Justice for our Zahra is on its' way.

Also I just wanted to bump the threat title here:
Zahra Baker Search and Recovery Effort and Input
which is very specific, and basically just means please keep posts (and responses to posts) related to search and recovery efforts and ideas only. Maps are great, ideas about locations are great. Thoughts about additional search resources are great, etc. Everything else, there's probably another thread for somewhere, such as who will go to trial, who is guilty of what, etc.

Thanks everyone for being so awesome at sticking to this.

Oriah

 

[nursebeeme]

Yes, but I'm only 2 hours away, and we've had a dry summer here. So if water levels were really low before these rains, creek might still be shallow and flow still not up over the boulder area.

yes! great thinking.. so we go with this! (my extended family is from NC/charlotte area)


IF~Z was killed and disposed of mid Sept thru time she was reported missing the water levels would have been way down...

storm comes along and could dislodge whatever was thrown in the creek area or even in low lying areas in previously searched areas.

I think the search on the side of the creek bed (pictures we have seen today) could indicate something that perhaps was burried... moved with flood waters, and got lodged in the muddy sides of the creek as water receded back down in the last week or so?

any thoughts?

 

[Oriah]

I'm curious about flow rates and water level.

Check the NOAA dates, sarx- easiest way. I don't have time to bring it up- sorry.

 

[tlcya]

OK did someone post flow rates? Lost it!

this is soooo not my area dont know how good this reference is

http://stream-flow.allaboutrivers.com/North_Carolina/river_flow-sNC.html

here's a better one I think

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nc/nwis/current/?type=flow

ETA on the link directly above you can select the time period and very specific flow, water level data.

 

[nursebeeme]

But this is a big creek. It would take more than just a few serious rainfalls to raise the water level significantly if the season itself were dry. I'd think so anyway...not an expert on creeks.

but it was a huge storm.. enough to dislodge something.. especially with a total depth of 5 ft. for sure the current would have been affected? moo ((note I am an open heart nurse and not a creek expert either lol... but being the former I know quite a bit about flow LOL))

 

[Oriah]

There appears to be some pools and a fair amount of large rocks which would cause deep spots as well, but I don't think it would be too fast moving looking at the topo.

Although it does depend upon how much of that rain fell during a specific time period. An inch is nothing over a day. Over 10 min- it's a lot more.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

but it was a huge storm.. enough to dislodge something.. especially with a total depth of 5 ft. for sure the current would have been affected? moo ((note I am an open heart nurse and not a creek expert either lol... but being the former I know quite a bit about flow LOL))

Yes, rain might have dislodged something, but there might not have been any raw power from up creek, because the water might not have risen above the boulder area? Make sense? Again...JMO...no clue about creeks.

 

[LCoastMom]

This area has a lot of decomposing going on. It is a basic illegal carcass dumping area.(From what has been said) So I'm thinking it might make the dogs confused. They also were searching in the water. The dogs can't do that.

Crazy as it sounds dogs are used in water searches too - I'm assuming the dogs are trained a little differently than dogs that search in trash heaps etc, although I don't know this for a fact.

They were used in WA state this year in hopes of finding a young mother and her son who were suspected of going in the Puget Sound.

Azriel Carver was found washed up on the shore of a near by island - his mother, Shantina 'Kat' Smiley has not been seen since they both disappeared in March.

SEATTLE — Authorities in Washington state on Wednesday resumed their search for a woman who appears to have abandoned a van on a remote Puget Sound beach over the weekend and disappeared with her 8-year-old son.

A boat crew searched the Boston Harbor area near Olympia using two dogs that tried to pick up the scent of 29-year-old Shantina “Kat” Smiley of Silverdale and her son Azriel Carver. Dogs also searched the roads and area surrounding the beach.

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=8400.15

 

[lonetraveler]

Although it does depend upon how much of that rain fell during a specific time period. An inch is nothing over a day. Over 10 min- it's a lot more.

Don't know about that particular area but in southeast NC there were record rainfalls around September 19th. Where I live on the coast there was a record 24 inches of rain that week.

 

[Oriah]

Crazy as it sounds dogs are used in water searches too - I'm assuming the dogs are trained a little differently than dogs that search in trash heaps etc, although I don't know this for a fact.

They were used in WA state this year in hopes of finding a young mother and her son who were suspected of going in the Puget Sound.

Azriel Carver was found washed up on the shore of a near by island - his mother, Shantina 'Kat' Smiley has not been seen since they both disappeared in March.

topic=8400.15"]http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=8400.15[/url]

[/quote]

Dogs are used in water searches frequently. Yes, they are specially trained.

 

[Sherbie]

I heard it on Mike Galonas on HLN around 5pm, IIRC.
I was shocked to hear about AB ........

If he indeed was on scene to assist/direct them in the search, I believe his attorney likely negotiated a deal with the DA for some type of lesser charges (or DP off the table) in exchange therefor. If so, he would have incentive to be truthful and not jerk LE/searchers around, and there would be an even higher degree of certainty that whatever they found is valid evidence. JMO.

God bless these LE and searchers who have worked tirelessly for Zahra! :rose:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I asked Shay to repost useful rain info here in this thread.

JMO...but I don't think the 2 thread idea is working.