GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #14

[bessie]

Interesting discussion of the wrongful death suit, originating from yet another area TV station:

ETA: In the neighborhood of the 2:15 mark, does he say something to the effect that the grandfather or someone else "gave them" permission to go on the property and then someone "had them" removed from the property? Anybody know about anything like that...??

I thought I remembered an incident like that! Let me go see if I can find the link.

ETA: From November 2011. Seems Browning gave the family consent to search, but not LE. LE didn't have probable cause, and warned the Giddings they would be interfering with the investigation is they searched themselves.

Mann said Browning was “very gracious” when she phoned him, and she said he invited the Giddings family to “come anytime and look around,” that he would guide them around his property.

​

A law enforcement source said last week that investigators have no probable cause to search Browning’s property, and that Browning had not consented to let Macon police look there.

Karen Giddings said authorities told her that if she and her family were to go to Browning’s property, it could affect the investigation.

\http://www.macon.com/2011/11/13/1783563/giddings-family-pressing-for-search.html

I can only find the above, so I suppose this is what I remembered. Could've sworn there was an unpleasant encounter somewhere along the line.
​

 

[Backwoods]

I thought I remembered an incident like that! Let me go see if I can find the link.

I sure don't remember it! Oh, I remember some things like that the Giddingses said the grandfather invited them to come but of course LE said any search would need to be an official LE one, etc. But that someone actually went and then was sent away... nope! I'm wondering if something like this really did happen -- maybe it has been "noised abroad" but never hit the media? -- or does the guy in the video just not know quite what he's talking about? Hmm.

 

[Backwoods]

Two years ago on the late evening of June 25 - 26, Lauren's life was taken.

Here is an older article that details the night of panic when her friends and family discovered that something was wrong since they had not heard from her in 4 days.

They all thought she was studying for the Georgia bar - when in fact she had been murdered.

For those of us who have followed this case from the beginning - this article will bring back memories of sadness and tragedy that beautiful Lauren was the innocent victim of a psychopath.

http://www.macon.com/2012/06/24/2071775/night-of-panic-the-evening-before.html

I remember that story coming out last summer, just around the time we started the "memory vigil" for Lauren during the anniversary of the days when she was missing yet no one had realized it yet.

I recall that I thought the writers did a good job of capturing some idea (not that anyone could totally capture it) of what the experience of realizing Lauren was missing must have been like for those who loved her. That feeling, first, of "OK, I'm concerned, but this is probably all going to turn out fine, just hold on, be calm ..." and then the rapid descent into the horrible reality.

It's strange, the things one recalls: I'm pretty sure this was a story that I typed a long post about, complimenting it (for one reason, because it was taking some bashing in macon.com comments), and then lost the post when my WS log-in timed out! I don't think I ever recreated it. I do remember that one thing I mentioned was how I could relate to the early stages of the "panic", thinking of times my daughter wasn't in touch when I thought she'd be, etc. -- but then later, of course, the blessed relief when all turned out OK.

But for Lauren's family and friends, a different, terrible ending came.

 

[GeorgiaSunshine]

Not as far away as I orginally thought, but my thoughts were that he had to scatter to cause confusion IMO, but also, easier to transport small parts than a torso in his car

I just know there is a river, ocmulgee, parrallell to Georgia Ave as well as Dripping Rock Rd, the flint, so we might wonder why go that far except to get the parts away from Ga Ave and HIM, on the other hand, why chose his grandfathers land to drop it when surely he'd know that it would be searched since connected to his family, so I dont' doubt he pondered it and likely pondering it that night he and grandpa strolled or drove the property, and that would be possessing if he did use his family land, seems kind of risky,
but who knows whats in the mind of a killer or anybody for that matter, we all have our own perspectives but i do believe she's in water

And the family has to search it for closure if nothing else

It is known that killers who are in love with their victims will bury or keep them somewhere they can get to. Grandfathers property was perfect. A litte sentimental memento for the sick perp, yet not too close to home. See John Gacy and other killers who would bury them either on property or close
John Wayne Gacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Danny Rollings would keep parts of the women with him at his camp, small parts, won't go into detail on that one..
Danny Rolling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tomkat]

bbm: You know, we have known about that drive over the property since Sept. 2011, when The Telegraph ran the story based on an interview with Hollis Browning, the grandfather:

http://www.macon.com/2011/09/25/1717788/mcdaniels-grandfather-stung-by.html

I really never saw anything odd about that incident -- figured Stephen just followed his grandfather back from the gathering to make sure he made it home OK (he was in his 80s) and then just companionably took that brief drive-tour of the place with him.

In a later story (don't have the link right handy), when the idea began to surface that the farm might be where the rest of Lauren is, we learned that the Giddingses had been in contact with the grandfather and that they said he said he would allow them to come look around the place.

While I understood why the idea might occur to Lauren's family, especially after the heartbreak and frustration of some futile searches elsewhere, frankly I have never understood why the farm seemed to them so likely.

In the coverage of the latest in the case, though, there's a report from Macon's FOX24 that possibly sheds a little more light. Look at these quotes from Karen Giddings (bolding is mine):

more and phone interview with Karen Giddings at: http://www.newscentralga.com/news/local/Giddings-Family-Wants--212078121.html

I don't know quite what to make of this. That Stephen asked for the drive around the property and had never done that before -- well, I still don't find that wildly suspicious but I do understand how it could fuel the hunch and the need to search. Seems the info was sort of "secondhand", not directly from their conversation/s with the grandfather...? I wonder who told them? Maybe a Telegraph reporter who did the Sept. 2011 interview with him?

Ohhh thanks for recounting that article, so it was fathers day weekend, i couldn't remember, and the weekend before LG was missing on saturday

that's either coincidental or not, and the fact that he mentinoed scattering body parts in woods, well, his gpa had land, so, speculation maybe by her familty or anyone else, but the family has to know only if it was because he mentioned scattering in woods

it'll be closure if nothing else and can move forward in their search if not discovered there

 

[tomkat]

It is known that killers who are in love with their victims will bury or keep them somewhere they can get to. Grandfathers property was perfect. A litte sentimental memento for the sick perp, yet not too close to home. See John Gacy and other killers who would bury them either on property or close
John Wayne Gacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Danny Rollings would keep parts of the women with him at his camp, small parts, won't go into detail on that one..
Danny Rolling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes i know, and thanks for the links, and it still seems risky but I guess we aren't judging his IQ lol

 

[Backwoods]

Ohhh thanks for recounting that article, so it was fathers day weekend, i couldn't remember, and the weekend before LG was missing on saturday

that's either coincidental or not, and the fact that he mentinoed scattering body parts in woods, well, his gpa had land, so, speculation maybe by her familty or anyone else, but the family has to know only if it was because he mentioned scattering in woods

it'll be closure if nothing else and can move forward in their search if not discovered there

Just want to reiterate that I, too, though my own "hunch" is that Lauren is not there, hope the family will somehow be able to find out whether she is. No matter what its basis, the feeling is apparently the strong hunch of those nearest and dearest to a murdered young woman -- that means something, in itself. Maybe someone has had a dream or seemed to feel a message. Or any number of things.

I do think that it may be pretty difficult to to get that search done, though -- to convince a judge, whatever -- without evidence beyond what we have heard here. And, as for an owner allowing a search (without a warrant, I mean), that could be a big old nasty mess, especially if that property is still tied up in probate, disagreement between (Stephen's) family members, etc. Maybe somehow, though, it will happen, if it needs to.

The reason I posted the recent phone interview with Karen Giddings is because it tells a little different version of the "drive around the property" with granddad than we had heard previously (in the Telegraph story). Since it seems to be a second- or third-hand story -- and since the grandfather is no longer living to consult, and he and Stephen were apparently the only two people present -- it is hard to know how to confirm that version. But, if it is accurate, it does explain (to me) a bit better why the Giddingses feel that SM could have been "scouting" that day.

I think one obstacle for me with a lot of what has been discussed lately, both about this and the boat-anchor footage, items bought, etc., is that, on the "guilty" side of the fence (upon which I still perch), I am less inclined to believe that Lauren's murder was premeditated (in the sense of "planned days in advance") than many people are, perfect-murder-talk obsession notwithstanding. I more favor the he-was-creeping-her-room-and-she-caught-him theory, when thinking on the "guilty" side.

But I'm still considering different possibilities, on both sides of the fence.

 

[Backwoods]

I have said before (on my own "hunch") that if you wanted to search in the grandfather's neighborhood and/or around the Flint River, I'd think of Sprewell Bluff State Park (mentioned in some of the links we've had as being near the grandfather's place) -- and I was looking for the link (which I posted months back) to the park's page on the Georgia State Parks web site. But, no link to be found ... because, turns out, the site's status has gone through changes in recent years (link below, from this past December, gives sort of a timeline of those changes):

Sprewell Bluff to be managed by Upson County

​

A former state park on a scenic portion of the Flint River will now be managed by Upson County under a 50-year agreement signed in December. The land remains owned by the state. ...

...As a state park, it had been considered for closure because of low visitation, although it was the cheapest in Georgia to run. Three years ago, its one staff member was eliminated, management was handed off to the state’s Wildlife Resources Division and it was downgraded to a recreation area. ...

... Last year, Sprewell Bluff officially became a wildlife management area managed by DNR.

Now, the new agreement with Upson County will provide some predictability and stability for the portion of Sprewell Bluff used most by the public -- more than 1,000 acres including a boat ramp, playground and three miles of trails. ...

read more at: http://www.macon.com/2012/12/31/2301281/sprewell-bluff-to-be-managed-by.html



Here's a little bit more info about this site in its current status:

http://www.thomastonchamber.com/sprewellBluff.html

And a site with some very good (some, sort of haunting, IMO) photos:

http://stevetannerphotography.com/blog/hike-the-rock-bed-forest-of-sprewell-bluff/
​

 

[Backwoods]

Two years, now.

No formal WS vigil during these five days this year, but I know many are thinking of Lauren and her family and keeping the vigil in their hearts.

I really want to know what happened, and why, as far as we can know.

Rest in peace, Lauren.

:candle:

 

[Sandstorm]

Two years, now.

No formal WS vigil during these five days this year, but I know many are thinking of Lauren and her family and keeping the vigil in their hearts.

I really want to know what happened, and why, as far as we can know.

Rest in peace, Lauren.

:candle:

Backwoods, Thank you for remembering.... You said it well.
May we remain steadfast for Lauren and her family~
with prayers for those who loved her so deeply and miss her so badly.

Awaiting the the court case ~ that some justice will be served.
I say 'some justice' because justice can never be served when a person intentionally takes another person's life.

 

[bessie]

I'm a little late, but I haven't forgotten. Just the other day I learned that a loved one who's been gone awhile loved nasturtiums. It really touched me to find that out after so long. I never knew. So now I'm determined to fill pots with nasturtiums, all colors. And I've brought a pink here to remember Lauren, with thoughts and prayers for her family.

​

 

[Backwoods]

From Lauren's home area, there is a new article in The Baltimore Sun, centering around the wrongful-death lawsuit but touching on other topics as well. Definitely worth a read.

Giddings family files suit against accused killer of daughter

North Laurel native was killed in Georgia in 2011; police still searching for remains

..."This has deprived us from giving our daughter a private burial," said Karen Giddings. "We designed the grave site in such a way for her body parts to be added, but she doesn't even have a gravestone yet. It's not something we've spoken about or made any conscious decision about, but in my mind, this has kept us from doing that."...


...Meanwhile, the parents want to honor and celebrate their daughter's life. A softball tournament held last year was met with such success, Karen Giddings said, that a second Butterbean Tournament in Memory of Lauren Giddings is set for Sept. 14 at McCullough Field in Laurel. Proceeds will benefit the Special Olympics.


"We try to celebrate, rather than mourn," Karen Giddings said. "We're trying to focus on positive dates, like her birthday."


Giddings would have turned 29 in April. With the second anniversary of her death this week, Karen Giddings said Giddings' two sisters will be with the immediate family in their North Laurel home "just to be together." ...

read more at: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...-ho-cf-giddings-0627-20130625,0,6142924.story

 

[bessie]

Search Did Not Find Lauren Giddings' Remains

8:58 AM, Aug 26, 2013
A search for Lauren Giddings' remains Friday did not turn up any evidence, according to Jami Gaudet with the Macon Police Department. Major Charles Stone with the police department says last week a woman told investigators she believes she saw Stephen McDaniel, who is accused of killing neighbor and classmate Giddings, come out of woods near Houston Road about two years ago.

Giddings family files suit against accused killer of daughter

By Sara Toth, stoth@tribune.com 7:00 a.m. EDT, June 26, 2013

In an effort to find the rest of Giddings' remains, her parents have filed a $5 million civil suit against Stephen McDaniel, the man accused of her murder and dismemberment. Billy and Karen Giddings, of North Laurel, hope a judge will allow a search of a 63-acre wooded property owned by McDaniel's late grandfather, where the Giddings believe McDaniel may have hidden other parts of their daughter's body.

 

[bessie]

I'm as disgusted as always by the horrid reality Lauren's family deals with everyday of their lives. :tsktsk:

 

[tomkat]

I thought I remembered an incident like that! Let me go see if I can find the link.

ETA: From November 2011. Seems Browning gave the family consent to search, but not LE. LE didn't have probable cause, and warned the Giddings they would be interfering with the investigation is they searched themselves.

\http://www.macon.com/2011/11/13/1783563/giddings-family-pressing-for-search.html

I can only find the above, so I suppose this is what I remembered. Could've sworn there was an unpleasant encounter somewhere along the line.
​

I don't recall an unpleasant encounter just rememered the whole thing was unpleasant. If someone STUMBLED upon a body on his land, what THEN

Also, did LE EVER ASK to search the property of Browning?

 

[tomkat]

From Lauren's home area, there is a new article in The Baltimore Sun, centering around the wrongful-death lawsuit but touching on other topics as well. Definitely worth a read.



read more at: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...-ho-cf-giddings-0627-20130625,0,6142924.story

too Darned young!! I still awake with morningmares about this, can't imagine it being my beautiful be
loved child, not sure I would be so strong as they!

 

[Backwoods]

Fairly lengthy update/look-back this evening from Macon television station 13WMAZ:

The Giddings Case: Two Years Later

...Lauren's mother Karen Giddings says she's not confident that her daughter's remains will be easily found after two years. ...

...She says scheduling the trial quickly was also a top priority for her family, but setting the January date brought both relief and fear.

"We're still a little unsure about being in that courtroom and actually, for one, facing Lauren's murderer, and two, for me personally, some of the cold, hard facts that may come out of it," says Karen Giddings.

McDaniel's lawyer, Floyd Buford, says both he and his client are ready for the trial to begin.

He says, "Mr. McDaniel is adamant that he is innocent of these charges. He wants to have his day in court, and I am confident, very confident, that once the jury has an opportunity to hear both sides of the case, I believe that Mr. McDaniel will be acquitted."

District Attorney Cooke says he is confident in his own strategy.

more and photos, video, phone clips at: http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/237143/175/The-Giddings-Case-Two-Years-Later

 

[tomkat]

article at 13wmaz today, posting in regards to the discussion of Browning Property that never was searched and why

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/237143/175/The-Giddings-Case-Two-Years-Later


She and Giddings' father, Bill Giddings, filed a civil suit earlier this month asking to search the 63-acres in Pike County previously owned by Stephen McDaniel's grandfather. Karen says police could not find probable cause to search the property two years ago, but her family would still like them to look.

 

[Backwoods]

article at 13wmaz today, posting in regards to the discussion of Browning Property that never was searched and why

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/237143/175/The-Giddings-Case-Two-Years-Later


She and Giddings' father, Bill Giddings, filed a civil suit earlier this month asking to search the 63-acres in Pike County previously owned by Stephen McDaniel's grandfather. Karen says police could not find probable cause to search the property two years ago, but her family would still like them to look.

bbm: This, IMO, pretty much answers "no" to a semi-question I brought up a page or two back, as to whether there was cell phone activity, GPS, etc., linking Stephen to the area after Lauren's disappearance. (Not that that surprises me, didn't much think there would be -- whether he is or is not Lauren's killer -- but I had wondered a little.)

 

[bettiepageturner]

Hello everyone! This is my first post here. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading the discussion since I first heard about the case a few weeks ago. I kept myself purposefully in the dark regarding certain developments and instead read them as they unfolded, like some strange, retrospective mystery. As a current Georgia resident/native with ties to both Mercer and Agnes Scott (several friends were enrolled concurrently with Lauren), this case has definitely touched me more than others have, not to mention everyone's respectful handling of it here.

I'm going to do my best not to be redundant or attempt to revive any long since passed-on horses, but am I mistaken in thinking that thing about somebody coming forward (by contacting the defense) as the author of the BBQ post hasn't been discussed yet? I only read this information on a "law" site I'm not certain we're allowed to discuss specifically, so bear with me as I get a feel for the rules.

Onto some late-to-the-party speculation.. The more I read up on all the motions filed recently by the defense, the more I wonder if this wasn't the "plan" all along. It seems like so many pieces of (highly circumstantial) evidence are downright unrelated to each other. The extent of SM's meticulous planning vs. his carelessness has been widely debated, especially with regards to the torso disposal, but I'm starting to think that might have been part of the plan too. If SM was expecting authorities at the apartment complex, he would've known a grotesque discovery like that would've prompted panic and potentially hasty action on the part of LE. Having a presumably in depth understanding of what is and isn't admissible, and with Casey Anthony's case fresh on his mind, what if SM was banking on some subtle procedural errors in evidence seizure to significantly weaken the state's case? I don't know how frequently the defense gets evidence thrown out, and what they want thrown out now is a BIG deal (IMO), so this is obviously all just weak speculation.

If we're to believe TM's testimony, SM has been thinking about details like shoe size and being identified by his hair for years now. The fact that he let himself be identified by security camera looking at boat anchors—that he didn't buy, right?—makes me think he could've been playing a game of circumstantial evidence, a choose-your-own-murder-method wherein LE has to see how rain ponchos, rope, boat anchors, etc all fit in, and whether any of them do at all. Perhaps he intentionally used some sort of weak legalese when he allegedly did not consent to a search, knowing they would enter his apartment anyway—where he left further puzzle pieces (as promised to detectives) like the three (!) guns on his bed, the decorative weapons, and the cooler, none of which garnered any forensic evidence (AFAIK), but all of which appeared immediately suspicious to LE. If he went as far as painting over walls and scrubbing every impacted surface, surely he'd have time to arrange these things in a less bizarre manner, or even leave them in Lilburn (again, knowing what connotations their discovery would have to LE, especially after what would then appear to be an erroneous mention of a "small handgun" in the interview. Is it still a red herring if it's planted with the expectation that someone will identify it as such?)

This doesn't necessarily explain the condom confession, since as you all have pointed out, he could've so easily just said they were his sister's/free from health events on campus/etc that he had lying around just in case. I don't buy that he confessed to that to explain the keys, because he could've tossed those in a river in the days he had between the murder and the arrest. It's equally unlikely to think he threw those tidbits in to play his game on extra hard mode as it is to think he was playing a game of circumstantiality in the first place—but IMO, he knew he couldn't guarantee a complete lack of forensic evidence, so why not try to hide it in a mess of unrelated detail that would self-destruct in confusion before it could even make it to trial, all the while making it look like prosecution was crying wolf?