Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #46

[Forever Young]

I simply do not believe that Melaniece met IP 10 days before marrying him. The timing of every bit of that in the timeline is suspicious to me for hopefully obvious reasons. I shall say nothing further until the matter is judged in-bounds for sleuthing... somewhere.

I agree, it doesn't make sense. There is an obsession with being married with this crew. I don't get that either.

JMO, but this has everything to do with the mainline LDS doctrine of Celestial Marriage and the forbidding of premarital sex.

I know from the testimony of former members of the LDS that premarital sex can get you excommunicated even if the couple eventually marries, and that excommunication does not bode well for booksellers on the LDS circuit.

Celestial marriage - Wikipedia.

Sexuality and Mormonism - Wikipedia

 

[The First Article]

I have a question about the comments on Risperdone. Some say that it may have been given to JJ to make him sleepy. Others say it would not have that effect. My daughter and her sons have ADHD and Risperdone is one of the meds that are Rxed to them to help them focus and calm their minds. It is a stimulant but has the opposite effect on them. They drink coffee as a sedative or to be able to focus. Maybe it did have this same effect on JJ. Has anyone else heard of stimulants having the opposite effect on individuals who take them?

Yes, this is a known effect on children and those with ADHD.

edit to add: I have teens. One of them got a story from a guy friend of him going to a house party with with friends and everyone taking one of the adhd medications. All the kids were bouncing off the walls except this one boy who could not put together at first why everyone was so hyper and he was fine - that's when he realized he had ADHD. (no I do not approve of this behaviour, but other parents are clearly not as concerned about it as I am. Still a funny story.)

 

[dixiegirl1035]

RSBM It was as Melanie G would put it...fire and gasoline.

It's going to be interesting to find out what he purchased when AC went to the gas station/convenience store on the evening of the murder. I would assume since that was put in the timeline by LE... they know and/or have surveillance in addition to the phone pings? As we have stated many times, and moreso now.. they are focusing in one just ONE charge to get through the prelim... but may have much more. MOO

 

[Forever Young]

I'm curious about public sympathy. I've watched Bull too much. Do you think there was a reason she was in blue? Jmo

I read years ago that the color blue is recommended for court because it is perceived as "honesty" - true blue.

However, I did not consider the aqua colored top that LV wore the other day to actually be a true "blue", such as Navy blue or royal blue.

 

[vislaw]

For the legal folks out there, if murder charges are brought against Chad and Lori, what are the chances this information would be submitted and a jury would actually see it? I'm concerned some of the crazier elements of this story would never make it to a court room.

I believe what your question really asks is whether or not some of the "crazier elements of this story" might be ruled inadmissible as evidence at trial. The way you analyze an issue like this is to commence with the overarching rule of evidence that everything relevant is presumptivly admissible. Once deemed relevant, the question is whether a subordinate rule would require excluding it. Thus, the first threshold would be whether or not all the cray-cray stuff might be deemed irrelevant and I certainly would expect vigorous attempts by defense counsel to keep matters out. Nevertheless, the legal concept of relevance is very broad and the crimes of murder and conspiracy to commit murder rest upon the mental state and intent of the accused. Thus, almost all the really salacious stuff in this case will be considered relevant legally. The next question is whether or not the evidence in question may be excluded for other reasons. This is where you take into account hearsay and other technical objections. Probably the biggest risk for the prosecution would be for evidence to be excluded on grounds that its prejudicial impact outweighs its relevance. Courts bend over backwards to avoid giving the defense an avenue to appeal so I would not be surprised if the court finds some of the wacko stuff to be both cumulative and prejudicial. However, I think it is safe to conclude the majority of the outrageous behavior, beliefs and conduct will come in.

 

[Trouble1321075]

For the legal folks out there, if murder charges are brought against Chad and Lori, what are the chances this information would be submitted and a jury would actually see it? I'm concerned some of the crazier elements of this story would never make it to a court room.

Im not a legal expert but imo...
None of the religious stuff is admissable unless its linked to the motive. If they claim that the children were killed because they became zombies and they had to be killed so the souls could move on. I would think that would open the door to entering their religious beliefs into evidence.

 

[Jamie737]

This is what Kay said to EIN about JJ's meds -

KW: “When I saw that ring doorbell video that scared me to death, and finding out that she was telling neighbors he was her niece’s drug-baby, not her son, that just shows me how she was distancing herself from him. Maybe make it easier for her to do something to him?”
LW: “that’s actually been the lowest point in all of this, even lower and more hurtful than the death of Charles. How low can you get? For her to say that, it’s not the person that has the loving capability of a mother.”
NE: “you can hear JJ uncharacteristically swearing and police documents say she had not filled up his medication.”
KW: “I can’t understand that because that would have made him unruly, out of control, angry, and all these feelings that he has without that medication. It would have made her life incredibly easier than with him not taking it. The only reason I can think of her not giving it to him is 1/ she didn’t know where it was or 2/ she didn’t want to fill it because maybe she didn’t want anyone to know where they were. Or she was keeping him more agitated to keep her agitated to keep her moving down the path she was on, which was a very dangerous homicidal path that she’s been on since July.”

A year after JJ stayed with them, grandparents have not given up hope | East Idaho News

I think she wanted him to act out so that he could appear "possessed". That would recruit support in her immediate circle for the ritual/removal she had planned. Truly a despicably evil woman.

 

[The First Article]

Do we know how CD arrived at his precise ratings, down to the decimal figure? Was it how far out his pendulum swung, or what? It's so creepy, but in his mind, what was he precisely measuring with those numbers? Is there anything in his writings to clue us in?

I've looked but haven't seen anything exactly like it. However..... I suspect that Cease&Desist has an "operating thetan" in it and there are scales similar to that with similar themes from that group. Scales where being dead is a higher rating than say having grief.

And you'd see some diagrams that are highly suggestive of a similar "celestial" breakdown about light and dark spirits on the pure revelations wordpress site. You can find other similar themes at eternal.life and anything with Shroud.

Thematic hybridization seems likely.

 

[MsJosie]

I still want that second autopsy with a different medical examiner.

I agree, especially in this case. At least one medical examiner should be chosen by the family, with prosecutors giving an input if needed. I would also go outside the area of the crime. Favors should not come into play

 

[Tortoise]

Im not a legal expert but imo...
None of the religious stuff is admissable unless its linked to the motive. If they claim that the children were killed because they became zombies and they had to be killed so the souls could move on. I would think that would open the door to entering their religious beliefs into evidence.

It's part of the probable cause affidavits so I would say it's central to the case. However, even if the beliefs are disallowed, I think a jury could easily piece together their design to be together, collect on the life insurance policies, and eliminate witnesses and child responsibilities. But I do think if she is going to say she had reduced culpability (say if it comes down to life vs death penalty) because of his influence, she is going to want to bring it in, especially if it comes down to that vs monetary reasons.

moo

 

[Forever Young]

I've looked but haven't seen anything exactly like it. However..... I suspect that Cease&Desist has an "operating thetan" in it and there are scales similar to that with similar themes from that group. Scales where being dead is a higher rating than say having grief.

And you'd see some diagrams that are highly suggestive of a similar "celestial" breakdown about light and dark spirits on the pure revelations wordpress site.

Thematic hybridization seems likely.

Light/dark spiritual rating dates back to the Book of Mormon's explanation for the darker skin tones of American Indians and the reason that blacks were denied the priesthood in the Mormon church until 1978.

 

[MdlAgedCatLady]

IMO - because the whole "zombie" piece and the levels of darkness were core to their beliefs, MG said zombies have to die, and it is central to the conspiracy and multiple deaths - I think it will have to be brought in. If they want to convince people of their mission being the overarching reason (vs. insurance greed & lust), I think it might be the lesser of humiliation.
I know they didn't keep the sex out of the JA case - that was all up in your face and we were begging for "eye bleach".
Sry - just noticed this was for legal folks and IANAL

I appreciate your response! I should have said "Websleuth veterans" instead of legal folks.

 

[Sorelle19]

YIKES! In this new Nate Eaton interview with 97.1 ZHT, he says that Chad and Lori were talking daily after her arrest and he was telling her that:
1) the public supported her
2) she didn't have anything to worry about
3) everything would be over soon.

Nate says Lori's lawyer might use these convos to show she was being misled and maybe as a way to say she's not fit for trial.

Oh boy...

He also says police want to talk to Zulema.

 

[Deerrun]

I simply do not believe that Melaniece met IP 10 days before marrying him. The timing of every bit of that in the timeline is suspicious to me for hopefully obvious reasons. I shall say nothing further until the matter is judged in-bounds for sleuthing... somewhere.

I dont believe they knew each other only 10 days either. With everything going with MP she decides, maybe I will go on a dating app and meet my soulmate. Plus Chad handing the reigns over after 10 days of dating, wait what? Not buying it. Hopefully there is digital evidence that will suggest otherwise.
I am curious to see when she gives birth and count backwards

 

[Sorelle19]

Are we allowed to share court documents from Lori's custody fight with Joseph Ryan? Major, major mental illness noted.

 

[wenwe4]

Thanks so much for the link Sorelle 19!
So CD & LVD talks for "hours and hours" every day while she was in jail and he was out up until the time he was arrested (per NE from EIN on link above). This gives hours and hours of interaction between the two of them for prosecutor to evaluate. (OMG that poor paralegal - someone needs to send them cookies & chocolate just to get through it all IMO).
I think this is going to be a goldmine of references, analysis of interaction, tons of "leaks" in both verbal & non-verbal communication, in addition to defining how much CD is lying to LVD (as Nate indicated). How will CD get out of this now w/LVD? Honey I didn't tell you that the public was against you because 1) you aren't high enough on the scale and that is a 'need-to-know' status? 2) It would just upset you and doesn't matter because the world is ending 7/22 . . .. .

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I agree with a lot of what you say, the only place I find any difference is the degree to which Lori bought into Chad's spiel.

Like you, I think she's a control nut, but I think she's also gullible when it comes to spiritual beliefs. Chad (JMOO) had to have drawn her in somewhat because he offers her nothing else in the way of money, looks (especially looks) or a chance at the type of life she was used to with CV. In my opinion, he had to have brainwashed her to some extent. However, I don't think she really had much of a bond with her kids and so it wasn't too difficult to allow Chad's "list" of light and dark beings convince her that her kids were zombies and needed to die.

They are both evil to the core, but Chad JMO is the not-so-bright brains behind the failed plan. He learned early on that a handful of people would buy his books because they were looking for some sort of apocalyptic reinforcement, and Lori fell right into that trap.

Had it not been Lori, I think it would eventually have been another woman and he would have tried the same control tactics with her -- the killings -- I think they were all his idea, and I think he got off on feeling as though he had the power to decide life and death.

I hope they lock Lori up for life, but I hope Chad gets the death penalty.

I just am looking forward to conspiracy for murder, and it doesn't <modsnip: circumventing board profanity filters is not allowed> matter who did it. They BOTH go down MOO.

(MOO that I have read here that the conspiracy has same as the primary charge, and that this state has felony murder like rules... which state that if you were involved.... you ergo get same penalty. So................ bye bye

 

[chwilfrydedd]

Can I just throw out there as a lifelong member of the LDS church that I, and everyone I know does not view getting married 10 days after meeting or two weeks after a spouse dies as normal! When mentioned that we view ‘quick’ marriages as ‘normal’ months are usually involved, not weeks! And usually the quick part is after the engagement part!

 

[wenwe4]

I dont believe they knew each other only 10 days either. With everything going with MP she decides, maybe I will go on a dating app and meet my soulmate. Plus Chad handing the reigns over after 10 days of dating, wait what? Not buying it. Hopefully there is digital evidence that will suggest otherwise.
I am curious to see when she gives birth and count backwards

IIRC (from one of the dateline interviews?) it was an LDS dating site (which narrows the options quite a bit). I bet that LEO has been all over their online activity related to their involvement in BB shooting.

 

[wenwe4]

Can I just throw out there as a lifelong member of the LDS church that I, and everyone I know does not view getting married 10 days after meeting or two weeks after a spouse dies as normal! When mentioned that we view ‘quick’ marriages as ‘normal’ months are usually involved, not weeks! And usually the quick part is after the engagement part!

I do agree with this. In "normal" LDS families they date for a significant period of time (ie: a year) then a period of engagement, plans to marry in the Temple to receive endowments and become sealed for time and eternity, and have a big reception (often at a family home, the ward or even Stake house - depending on the size of the crowd).
In this regional area (small town & mostly rural), LDS closely knit families do not look upon this quick of a nuptial as a positive thing in most cases and would be highly suspect of covering up (a pregnancy perhaps) something scandalous.
MOO