Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[mrjitty]

The State/LE mischaracterized the Turco report.....and covered up even knowing who he is! That was one of the most preposterous lies they have told because, really, how hard was it to find the identity of a Purdue professor with that specific expertise? Not hard.

What I am getting at here, is who is that all being written for? The basis of a franks was already denied and we are racing towards trial. Whether or not Holeman's summary or the defence's summary of the report is the better, is entirely irrelevant to what the report says and what the witness will say at trial. So why are they spending their time on this?

I'm not sure what you mean about the finding of the judge in the safe keeping hearing. I wasn't aware this judge even believed in hearings.

Right but that is not true. The judge granted a substantial hearing over the accused's conditions. You may disagree with the Judge's factual findings, but it is the case that she made adverse factual findings at that hearing and recorded that the defence had misrepresented the evidence.

Then on March 18th she held a dismissal hearing. So she does hold hearings. Just not the Franks one. I think in the fullness of time, we will learn that the defence did not establish any evidential basis for one in their 'unusual' franks motion.

 

[girlhasnoname]

A purple PT Cruiser like TK's close relative owned?

Who is TK? Is he a POI because I have not seen a TK referred to anywhere in MSM.

 

[girlhasnoname]

We don't know which phone he provided. He had several.

So true, and it's not a stretch that when RA went to make his claim of being in the area on his phone checking out his stock ticker and gazing at the fish, he would most certainly would not have brought the phone with any incriminating evidence on it, he's far from stupid.

I have always said that 'poor, pitiful RA' is really sly like a fox. A lot of killers can pull this off in order to hide their true nature from their families, coworkers and the general public. Oftentimes people are shocked about x,y,z, "I would have never imagined, he was always such a good, upstanding citizen, father, husband, helpful worker, local pub drinker, etc."

A wolf in sheep's clothing hiding in plain sight. It kills me Abby & Libby crossed paths with this kind of predator while on an innocent stroll on a sunny afternoon while school was out, just being teen bffs. (The picture of Abby crossing the bridge (for the first time) that Libby took still makes me cry. So innocent and unaware of what was to happen.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

JMO

 

[vinayd]

I always felt the pic of Abby was a cry for help. I know she was probably nervous crossing the bridge.
But the pose and her eyes down remind me of what you do when you’re trying to look “busy” in front of a pedophile so they leave you alone.

 

[Salah11]

I always felt the pic of Abby was a cry for help. I know she was probably nervous crossing the bridge.
But the pose and her eyes down remind me of what you do when you’re trying to look “busy” in front of a pedophile so they leave you alone.

I think it’s just her doing a casual cool girl pose on the bridge.i have never got a sinister vibe from the photo.

But it’s heartbreaking to look at the Innocence of youth and to think in less than 1 hour RA will brutally kill them.

IMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

So true, and it's not a stretch that when RA went to make his claim of being in the area on his phone checking out his stock ticker and gazing at the fish, he would most certainly would not have brought the phone with any incriminating evidence on it, he's far from stupid.

I have always said that 'poor, pitiful RA' is really sly like a fox. A lot of killers can pull this off in order to hide their true nature from their families, coworkers and the general public. Oftentimes people are shocked about x,y,z, "I would have never imagined, he was always such a good, upstanding citizen, father, husband, helpful worker, local pub drinker, etc."

A wolf in sheep's clothing hiding in plain sight. It kills me Abby & Libby crossed paths with this kind of predator while on an innocent stroll on a sunny afternoon while school was out, just being teen bffs. (The picture of Abby crossing the bridge (for the first time) that Libby took still makes me cry. So innocent and unaware of what was to happen.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

JMO

Wolf in sheep’s clothing is my opinion as well. Under the guise of a helpful citizen just conveniently meeting a Conservation Officer in a grocery parking lot with a “clean” phone to present IMO.
Experience leads me to know that many evil people use the guise of “nice guy” to fool their friends, neighbors and community.
We all want to believe that we can clearly see and identify the monsters moving among us.
jMO

 

[FromGermany1]

I always felt the pic of Abby was a cry for help. I know she was probably nervous crossing the bridge.
But the pose and her eyes down remind me of what you do when you’re trying to look “busy” in front of a pedophile so they leave you alone.

I always thought, that Abby looks anything but a happy teenager, who is posing for a special photo on the forbidden (by her mum) MHB. I think, she knew, that Libby tried to picture her together with the creepy man, of course without him being able to notice. She looks like embarrassingly touched (if that is the right English expression). She feels uncomfortable posing there. MOO
Just an extra thought:
Instead of the girls, I would have tried to leave the bridge quickly, so that he couldn't push them down.
-.-.-
Apropos "quickly": Wasn't it the word, which was in 2017 used by LE to say, the unknown perp came around "qickly" in the MHB area/Delphi?? How did RA come around quickly, I'm now asking myself ...... With the help of others? No witness said, he was running, when they saw him.

 

[DeDee]

Here is a Robert Ives discussion.
5 miles radius from the CS.

IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #164

The original CC prosecutor, Robert Ives, did talk about this in an interview. I can't remember now if he was able to get one. Does anyone else remember that? He talks about it in the very long interview transcribed here (originally from the podcast Down the Hill)...

www.websleuths.com

I read the discussion as it was ongoing at the time and read it again today. No where did I see a geofence of a 5 miles radius around the area as being mentioned, not even by RI.

I'll be surprised if a geofence was allowed to go outside of perimeter of the immediate Deer Creek area.

As a crow flies, it is 2 miles from MHB to Riley Park. From MHB to the Abby and Libby Memorial Park, that's on the edge of town, is 1.4 miles. From MHB to the Heartland Highway is .5 miles.

A geofence warrant that stretches 5 miles would involve invading the privacy of too many phone owners of innocent people or thousands of phones, imo. A 5-mile-radius would involve every citizen that resides in Delphi and innocent travelers on the Heartland Highway. OTOH, if a Judge did allow this alleged 5-mile-radius-around for a geofence to happen, I'm eager to learn which one signed it.

 

[TTF14]

What I am getting at here, is who is that all being written for? The basis of a franks was already denied and we are racing towards trial. Whether or not Holeman's summary or the defence's summary of the report is the better, is entirely irrelevant to what the report says and what the witness will say at trial. So why are they spending their time on this?



Right but that is not true. The judge granted a substantial hearing over the accused's conditions. You may disagree with the Judge's factual findings, but it is the case that she made adverse factual findings at that hearing and recorded that the defence had misrepresented the evidence.

Then on March 18th she held a dismissal hearing. So she does hold hearings. Just not the Franks one. I think in the fullness of time, we will learn that the defence did not establish any evidential basis for one in their 'unusual' franks motion.

I was being sarcastic about her not holding hearings. She has held a few.

I don't think she's read any of the Franks hearing memorandums though.

 

[TTF14]

Your question to me was where was the info about collecting data on his phone. I provided the relevant interview where his phone MEID was collected.

If you also want to know what is in various police reports and warrants about phones in the area the public does not have any of that.

You said: "CO wrote down the identifying numbers from RAs phone as well as the times RA said he was on the trail, 1:39-3:30 and that he passed the group of girls leaving the trail by Freedom bridge. His time of arrival is fixed."

What I bolded was what I had hoped you would provide. I'm still not sure where you are getting that information from since what you provided to me as proof says no such thing.

 

[TTF14]

Some people seem to think the (very problematic) PCA is proof of guilt of this man. It's not the case. That is not what a PCA is. And the one in this case is.....more than questionable....

 

[Megnut]

I think it’s just her doing a casual cool girl pose on the bridge.i have never got a sinister vibe from the photo.

But it’s heartbreaking to look at the Innocence of youth and to think in less than 1 hour RA will brutally kill them.

IMO

I think that photo shows Abby facing the fear of crossing the MHB. Pausing, not looking directly down, making sure she had solid footing.

It's the overlay of what was about to happen that haunts that photo.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I read the discussion as it was ongoing at the time and read it again today. No where did I see a geofence of a 5 miles radius around the area as being mentioned, not even by RI.

I'll be surprised if a geofence was allowed to go outside of perimeter of the immediate Deer Creek area.

As a crow flies, it is 2 miles from MHB to Riley Park. From MHB to the Abby and Libby Memorial Park, that's on the edge of town, is 1.4 miles. From MHB to the Heartland Highway is .5 miles.

A geofence warrant that stretches 5 miles would involve invading the privacy of too many phone owners of innocent people or thousands of phones, imo. A 5-mile-radius would involve every citizen that resides in Delphi and innocent travelers on the Heartland Highway. OTOH, if a Judge did allow this alleged 5-mile-radius-around for a geofence to happen, I'm eager to learn which one signed it.

I've never seen "geofences" mentioned until the D brought it up.
I had to strike the above because I just found where @Yemelyan mentioned geo fence in June of last year.

In Scene of the Crime, episode 4, Ives talks about the number of cell phones he subpoenaed within a 5 mile radius.
We have this link but it's no longer available on stitcher.

Podcasts | Pandora

Discover your favorite Podcasts from a variety of categories including Daily News, Music, Business, True Crime, Comedy, Politics and more. Listen to Podcasts on Pandora.

www.stitcher.com

Here's a spotify link same as above but I don't know if it's approved and I don't have an account. Or, maybe there's something in our timeline/news thread.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

You said: "CO wrote down the identifying numbers from RAs phone as well as the times RA said he was on the trail, 1:39-3:30 and that he passed the group of girls leaving the trail by Freedom bridge. His time of arrival is fixed."

What I bolded was what I had hoped you would provide. I'm still not sure where you are getting that information from since what you provided to me as proof says no such thing.

Tip narrative is cited on page 4 of the Probable Caude affidavit.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Some people seem to think the (very problematic) PCA is proof of guilt of this man. It's not the case. That is not what a PCA is. And the one in this case is.....more than questionable....

It’s proof on reasonable cause to search his home and property. And guess what, IMO it was fruitful so there’s that.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Some people seem to think the (very problematic) PCA is proof of guilt of this man. It's not the case. That is not what a PCA is. And the one in this case is.....more than questionable....

I think this PCA showed probable cause to arrest Defendant Allen for the murder of Abby & Libby. That is all the PCA has to do, it doesn't have to show all the evidence the State has.

I don't understand what is more than questionable or problematic in it? Not counting what the Defense's Memo in support of Franks.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I always felt the pic of Abby was a cry for help. I know she was probably nervous crossing the bridge.
But the pose and her eyes down remind me of what you do when you’re trying to look “busy” in front of a pedophile so they leave you alone.

Interesting point @vinayd, I never thought of that possibility. I just thought she was really nervous crossing that bridge for the first time. But yes, if RA was coming up upon them quickly and in a threatening manner, she may have been trying to get to Libby and to the 'safety' at the end as fast as possible.

moo

 

[DeDee]

I've never seen "geofences" mentioned until the D brought it up.

In Scene of the Crime, episode 4, Ives talks about the number of cell phones he subpoenaed within a 5 mile radius.
We have this link but it's no longer available on stitcher.

Podcasts | Pandora

Discover your favorite Podcasts from a variety of categories including Daily News, Music, Business, True Crime, Comedy, Politics and more. Listen to Podcasts on Pandora.

www.stitcher.com

Here's a spotify link same as above but I don't know if it's approved and I don't have an account. Or, maybe there's something in our timeline/news thread.

Thank you. I do not have a Spotify account.
Also, RI's interview with Dr Oz has been made private.

4 year anniversary in 2020 interview
No mention of a warrant issued for 5 mile radius:
"Then on the other hand, when your two little girls <> and you want to find out who was nearby in the last 2 hours, it’s terrible not to be able to get that information. And the idea is, well, I’ll just get a search warrant. That’s not logically or legally practical." RI

However, I remember well the Bicycle Bridge Rd warrant and LE's search of the shed. The Canal St in Peru warrant was on FEB 25, 2017. That was likely the K's address in Peru that is about 46 miles from Delphi. So, yes, LEO can issue particular addresses seeking a probable cause warrant to be signed by a Judge. That's not at all the same as obtaining a 5 mile radius for a geofence warrant in this case.

This is my last statement on the 5 mile radius geofence warrant as I feel the point has been proven. One was not obtained for a 5 mile radius because it is not logical or legally possible, imo.

 

[TTF14]

I think this PCA showed probable cause to arrest Defendant Allen for the murder of Abby & Libby. That is all the PCA has to do, it doesn't have to show all the evidence the State has.

I don't understand what is more than questionable or problematic in it? Not counting what the Defense's Memo in support of Franks.

JMO

I am counting what's in the Franks memo because it is backed up by 194 footnotes/citations.

Believing it's all lies is an easy way to just stay in the "RA is definitely guilty and is the only guy" lane and I'm not good with that.

IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thank you. I do not have a Spotify account.
Also, RI's interview with Dr Oz has been made private.

4 year anniversary in 2020 interview
No mention of a warrant issued for 5 mile radius:
"Then on the other hand, when your two little girls <> and you want to find out who was nearby in the last 2 hours, it’s terrible not to be able to get that information. And the idea is, well, I’ll just get a search warrant. That’s not logically or legally practical." RI

However, I remember well the Bicycle Bridge Rd warrant and LE's search of the shed. The Canal St in Peru warrant was on FEB 25, 2017. That was likely the K's address in Peru that is about 46 miles from Delphi. So, yes, LEO can issue particular addresses seeking a probable cause warrant to be signed by a Judge. That's not at all the same as obtaining a 5 mile radius for a geofence warrant in this case.

This is my last statement on the 5 mile radius geofence warrant as I feel the point has been proven. One was not obtained for a 5 mile radius because it is not logical or legally possible, imo.

I took notes from that interview but they are worthless without a link.
IMO, it's likely that he sought subpoenas for individual locations. He would surely have caught RA's phones, depending on how he chose locations within the radius he was searching. If they didn't have his phones, I'm sure wondering why.