Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

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Why would I, as a defense attorney for a person accused of double murder, and after hearing my client has confessed, then advise my client to make more confessions, then try to have all the confessions suppressed prior to trial? Why would I make life harder on myself by doing that? If I didn't want the confessions to be heard at trial, why add more problems to deal with?

That fact scenario will never make sense to me. It sounds completely ludicrous. IMO
I guess we will wait and see what happens in the trial...it will be interesting if the D uses that argument in front of the jury---saying that he made so many confessions and some were inconsistent and not factual, so the jury should ignore them all...We will see what they do...
 
This is why I remain fascinated by the Pistorius case, which I think is the gold standard case of witnesses and timelines in terms of the complexity and inconsistencies.

Applying it to this case, I think the key thing is witnesses will typically be wrong about some detail, and it is more the broad strokes that matter.

For example, putting things together, I think it is pretty clear that the 3 juvenile girls and woman walker, all saw the bridge guy who is on the video, even though they differ on some details. Indeed i would expect them to differ on details - just because humans are not perfect.

So to me, woman walker is most important to establish there was "a bridge guy" already there on the bridge just before the girls got there, and it's much less important what she remembered he looked like.

IMO/MOO
And she didn't see two.

She didn't see two men on the path, on the bridge, on the platform.

And, while RA admits to being on the path, in the bridge, abd on the platform, if you count him as one, he didn't see two either.

He is the one.

JMO
 
I guess we will wait and see what happens in the trial...it will be interesting if the D uses that argument in front of the jury---saying that he made so many confessions and some were inconsistent and not factual, so the jury should ignore them all...We will see what they do...
I think defense will capitalize on RA’s perceived weakened mental state and the purported threats from the Odinist prison guards. They will point to multiple “coerced” confessions, with differing details in each one, to bolster both the Odinist SODDI theory and the alleged LE frame job/conspiracy angle. Defense will want a jury to believe that LE turned a blind eye to the Odinists due to their alleged affiliations with political higher-ups in Carroll County.

The first confessions by RA to his wife and mother were likely genuine. I am skeptical of the other confessions to prison cellmates. Once he started to spill, defense would want to add in more convoluted confessions to fit their “Odinists did it and threatened RA” narrative.

jmo
 
I think defense will capitalize on RA’s perceived weakened mental state and the purported threats from the Odinist prison guards. They will point to multiple “coerced” confessions, with differing details in each one, to bolster both the Odinist SODDI theory and the alleged LE frame job/conspiracy angle. Defense will want a jury to believe that LE turned a blind eye to the Odinists due to their alleged affiliations with political higher-ups in Carroll County.

The first confessions by RA to his wife and mother were likely genuine. I am skeptical of the other confessions to prison cellmates. Once he started to spill, defense would want to add in more convoluted confessions to fit their “Odinists did it and threatened RA” narrative.

jmo


Surely the Defense has to have some kind of proof that RA was intimidated hence he made false confessions?

At the moment it’s all conjecture and no actually proof that odinist have anything to do with this crime or threatening RA.


ETA- sorry Dyslexic moment False not Force.
 
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I think the raving lunatics who are screaming RA is guilty when there hasn’t even been a trial yet would balance them out.

IMO MOO JMO
I think posters who believe RA is guilty based on the evidence provided thus far aren't in the same league as the SM diehards to send letters to the Judge, talk about LE and the Court like they're criminals. This is a pro LE site.

Also, they refuse or try to make excuses for any piece of evidence that does point to RA's guilt, but are quick to attack anyone who posts those.

I think the odds that LE, ISP and FBI all have colluded against a completely innocent man, RA, is beyond the reasonable realm of possibility. But that is just my opinion. Either RA=BG=Killer or he is the unluckiest man alive.

JMO
 
Surely the Defense has to have some kind of proof that RA was intimidated hence he made force confession?

At the moment it’s all conjecture and no actually proof that odinist have anything to do with this crime or threatening RA.
Therein lies the beauty of defense’s approach. They don’t have to prove a thing. It is on the prosecution to prove BARD that RA is BG and is guilty of murdering Libby and Abby.

All defense needs to do is cast reasonable doubt about RA’s guilt to a jury. The jury will either believe a SODDI theory, or they won’t.

jmo
 
Surely the Defense has to have some kind of proof that RA was intimidated hence he made force confession?

At the moment it’s all conjecture and no actually proof that odinist have anything to do with this crime or threatening RA.
Well, RA was being video recorded so if that actually happened, maybe we'll see that in Court. I don't know why the Defense would save it for trial if they had proof instead of presenting it and getting their client RA out of the grasp of the evil Odins.

MOO
 
Also, they refuse or try to make excuses for any piece of evidence that does point to RA's guilt, but are quick to attack anyone who posts those.
RSBM

The inverse is no different. Both sides point to information that bolsters their argument, and both are quick to attack information that tends to discredit their view. This is nothing new.
 
I never would either, but there are some people who are ignorant (that's not an insult) when it comes to cars. However, the front ends especially look nothing at all alike. And if it was backed in....

It's just weird. But RA also never said he was even parked at the old CPS building. LE just took the liberty of assuming that's what he meant, IIRC.

JMO MOO

View attachment 509233
Apropos cars and the optics:
When I said to my son, who is master mechanic (don't know, if the right translation), "all cars look the same" (and I meant the newer and expensive cars), he immediately answered to me "Go, wash your mouth with soap!". :p
 
Sorry just edited my post to say False and not Force. A stupid dyslexic moment as I’m sick with a head cold so not playing full attention.


Ok so the Defense can make stupid outlandish claims and they don’t have to prove anything they claim. Thats good to know and I hope with the added time the prosecution can get a airtight case.
 
I think the odds that LE, ISP and FBI all have colluded against a completely innocent man, RA, is beyond the reasonable realm of possibility. But that is just my opinion. Either RA=BG=Killer or he is the unluckiest man alive.

JMO

RSBM

Or he's just one in a large group of people who need to be held accountable for this crime, but there's an attempt to make him the only one to go down for it.

IMO MOO
 
I think others are involved. RA may be the only one they had enough evidence to charge.

jmo

This is the one theory that I can get behind. I’m still torn on if he knew the girls were there that day. I believe he murdered them alone but he may of been on websites and downloaded stuff prior and knew people in the community that meant he knew there plans that afternoon.

Moo
 
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Therein lies the beauty of defense’s approach. They don’t have to prove a thing. It is on the prosecution to prove BARD that RA is BG and is guilty of murdering Libby and Abby.

All defense needs to do is cast reasonable doubt about RA’s guilt to a jury. The jury will either believe a SODDI theory, or they won’t.

jmo

Other than the OJ jury and a couple of other cases that come to mind where a jury couldn't understand the difference between circumstantial evidence and true irrefutable evidence, juries seem to be pretty down to earth in realizing what is true and what is not true. Regardless of some of the BS thrown out there, they generally get it right.

I have a lot of faith in the US justice system. It isn't perfect but is among the best in the world. And far better than a lot of countries that have a lot of corruption involved. Corruptions stops the guilty from being arrested and/or gets them off with backdoor deals.
 
Yes, it is but notice the article said: "...psychiatrists and a psychologist had allegedly deemed it unnecessary,..." Maybe I'll go searching through all the P's docs to find the source for the HuffPo article. I'd like to know what Nick's exact words were.

With that said, it doesn't mean the medical staff never gave him any drugs that could have bad side effects. There's nothing nefarious about that.

RA was at Westville for a number of months under a suicide watch.
I'm hard pressed to imagine he just had therapy sessions.
If he was under suicide watch and needed medication, do you think they'd actually give him meds that made him delusional enough to admitted multiple times in writing and then to his wife and mother that he barbarically murder two girls?

Is anyone that comes into contact with RA, and is witness to a confession, now automatically a part of a conspiracy to frame the CVS employee, ignoring the real Odinist killers?

Just the shear number of confessions attributed to RA, the odds of a conspiracy to falsely convict him plummet, IMO.

He put himself at the crime area, on the bridge at the time of abduction within days of the murders. Now he's repeatedly confessed to it years later. Why does common sense go out the window because his reactions to being arrested, imprisoned, loss of freedom he's known his whole life have physically and mentally affected him adversely? Because he feels bad enough to kill himself automatically means he must be an innocent man, because a guilty man would never want to kill himself? There's the odds again.

A man is innocent until it's proven he's not. RA has given that proof yet nobody believes him? What are the odds? And people wonder why he's continually admitted his guilt. It's not a mystery to me, nor a conspiracy, it's a man telling the truth and his lawyers won't accept it. At this point, it's the only thing that makes sense.
AJMO
 
If he was under suicide watch and needed medication, do you think they'd actually give him meds that made him delusional enough to admitted multiple times in writing and then to his wife and mother that he barbarically murder two girls?

Is anyone that comes into contact with RA, and is witness to a confession, now automatically a part of a conspiracy to frame the CVS employee, ignoring the real Odinist killers?

Just the shear number of confessions attributed to RA, the odds of a conspiracy to falsely convict him plummet, IMO.

He put himself at the crime area, on the bridge at the time of abduction within days of the murders. Now he's repeatedly confessed to it years later. Why does common sense go out the window because his reactions to being arrested, imprisoned, loss of freedom he's known his whole life have physically and mentally affected him adversely? Because he feels bad enough to kill himself automatically means he must be an innocent man, because a guilty man would never want to kill himself? There's the odds again.

A man is innocent until it's proven he's not. RA has given that proof yet nobody believes him? What are the odds? And people wonder why he's continually admitted his guilt. It's not a mystery to me, nor a conspiracy, it's a man telling the truth and his lawyers won't accept it. At this point, it's the only thing that makes sense.
AJMO
Good questions.

I'm just looking at this case from a juror's prospective that Richard Allen innocent until the State proves to me he's guilty. I'm going to question each and every thing that comes to mind on both sides. I hope I can come to a decision at the end of this case that I can live with because this one will be impossible to forget.
 
I think defense will capitalize on RA’s perceived weakened mental state and the purported threats from the Odinist prison guards. They will point to multiple “coerced” confessions, with differing details in each one, to bolster both the Odinist SODDI theory and the alleged LE frame job/conspiracy angle. Defense will want a jury to believe that LE turned a blind eye to the Odinists due to their alleged affiliations with political higher-ups in Carroll County.

The first confessions by RA to his wife and mother were likely genuine. I am skeptical of the other confessions to prison cellmates. Once he started to spill, defense would want to add in more convoluted confessions to fit their “Odinists did it and threatened RA” narrative.

jmo
I'm extremely interested in the time frame and content of the letters to the warden.
 
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