100 questions from the jury: Arias answering on her 17th day on the stand #78

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BOMBSHELL TONITE!

I about fell out of my seat when Nurmi solicited the answer from JA that included her saying the Travis had told her he was getting signs from God that Mimi Hall was supposed to be his wife. There, IMO, is the motive! Not just that he was taking Mimi to Cancun, but that he was going to finally, truly move on...
My question is, did that seem to be a big moment in the courtroom? Was it just me?

Thank you, as always, for your observations!

Oh, and PASA, if you got in, please feel free to answer as well. Thank you both!
(Posted by My3Sons)
--------------

This was on the court observers thread. I didn't hear the part about Travis saying he was called by God to marry Mimi. Anyone know what exactly was said?
 
My eyes are crossing and I feel like a truck hit me. This trial is exhausting and I'm thousands of miles away. Heading to the other thread and then try to sleep. Nite all and stay safe. Prayers for all of Travis's family and friends.
 
Hmm.. wonder what went on at the Tire shop?
Before or After the murder day :waitasec:

Dates aren't showing.. arrrggg so wanted to follow alongside Juan :blushing:

Flying J Travel Plaza in Winnamucca has showers......... two charges there.....
 
I am sure most people have endured the Walmart return/exchange trip to the service counter in last 10 years. (policies are worldwide)
In my experience you Need a receipt for Proof of a Cash transaction Prior to handing back Cash (best to have the receipt in hand but IF same day purchase the actual register can be be revisited on occasion) also Must be documented regardless in their computer systems whether you kept the receipt and/or a new receipt is generated cash or credit under $25..
:twocents:

Actually, I have never returned anything to Walmart because I don't shop there often. Target is my store :great: But I was just looking at Walmart's return policy. I think you can return something without a receipt even if you paid cash. But you are correct, I'm sure you would have to show ID and they would have a record of a return. Here's Wally World's no receipt return policy here -
http://help.walmart.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/190/~/walmart-returns-center#no_receipt
 
You can't legally put gas in a kerosene can. Gas can is red, kero can is blue....tell me where I'm going with this....a gas can and kero can are two different things. Did she buy clear kero to burn evidence?

You bring up an interesting point. Along with the kero can, she also bought two cans of flammable aerosol Neutrogena Sunblock and 2 containers of facial cleanser.

On as limited a budget as she said she was, the almost $20 worth of flammable sunblock imo doesn't rule out arson as a motive for the purchase.
 
The Budget car man said that the car smelled like smoke when she returned it, and she did not want the car because it was red.
 
For all the kids I work with, there is a high need for control, no empathy, no conscience. It is a sliding scale - some have serious issues, some are more mild. The nonsense lying is constant. It is a sign that they feel the need to control - like their life literally depends on it. For days, I have seen her have the flat affect and the blank eyes. Sometimes, when she says "I don't remember," I almost see her as dissociating. It is odd. You think about how many times she has said "I don't know" about her own reasons and her own feelings. Often, with my kids, that is the way it is. They literally cannot connect to their feelings enough to know why they did what they did. So much of it is truly reactive. That does not mean there is not planning. They are highly susceptible to tremendous rage and anger at the feeling of abandonment or loss of control - even perceived abandonment or loss of control. They have a very fake exterior. I call it the "china doll." It is the smiley, happy, totally in control face you see when she does all the interviews. It is so skilled it is uncanny. It is totally a survival mechanism that they have learned very early on. Out of all kids, these kids are the most socially adept and good at being believed. Even when flat out lying.

But, today has been different. I have to say it has hit me very hard personally. I got into this field because I adopted a child who has had extreme attachment issues. Due to years of helping my child, I have come to see first hand how hard it is to raise a child with these traits of no empathy and no conscience. Like someone posted the other day, you go round and round with the lies - the endless nonsense lies - even the control on little things like the mayonnaise and mustard. The blank eyes and china doll face. You always hope you can make a difference but daily you face issues like JM has on the stand. But, then there is a point. If you can hang in there and be lovingly therapeutic and outlast the chaos, there is a point that you can get to with these children that the total look of all their bottled up shame comes up. They let down their guard for a few moments and you can see the darkness, anger, rage, and pain they carry. Almost a look of defeat.

I saw that look in Jodi today and, for me as a mom, it was the weirdest feeling. I honestly felt love. I recognized that look as the point on the children I work with when they give up the baloney and know they cannot continue - that the act and fake stuff isn't working. At that point, I know as a mom I can help. Of course, in our home and many others, it is little things like mayonnaise or mustard or lying about who hurt the family dog, not murder. But, at the end of the day, all of my families are working to help our kids get conscience and empathy so that things like this don't happen.

With my child, I wait for that look of defeat, of resignation, to know that my child is willing to trust me to help. So many times, I have had to wait patiently, through lots of stuff, to get to that point. But, the moment my child gives up the act, I know I can help. Often, those are some of our most tender moments. It takes so much for a child who has been significantly hurt (such that he or she forms no attachments) to trust with true emotion. When they will trust you, you have a chance to teach them another way. It is incredibly hard because that has been their sole survival.

Today, when I saw the deflated look, I knew JA knew the jury wasn't buying it. She can tell her way hasn't worked. The shame - not of killing TA - but of how defective and different she is from everyone else has hit her. She knows she is different, fundamentally flawed, but, if she can keep up the act and others will believe the act, she feels on top of the world. When that starts to crack, it is a tremendous fall. For a younger child, it is a point of help. For JA, it is a point of realizing it has not worked.

Sharing alot here. But, I work with families all over the world who have adopted kids with the same issues. I go to court with them to get help. I hold their hands when their child beats them up. I help them deal with the no conscience or empathy. I help protect them when their children physically harm them. I love those families because they do the hardest job in the world. JA has highlighted why we do what we do.

When I saw her deflated look, I knew she knew it was over. Today, instead of dark eyes and the smile, I could see the dark eyes and fallen countenance. I saw the "child" that was stunted many many years ago. While she tries to come across as intelligent and is very sophisticated at the act, she seems to me to be emotionally stunted at a 12 year old level. Today, in her countenance, I could see "behind the curtain" of the wizard of Oz. The grand act came crashing down.

I am not saying she will not try to regain the image. And, I am definitely not saying she will not lie. She has to lie to feel any control at all. She almost can't help it, even on stupid things.

But, today, I could see and so recognized the look. I have seen it many times before. The moment she realized it was done. That the act hadn't worked and that people could see through the fake exterior. For her, that was crushing.


Please don't bash here. It took a lot to share this. Please know that, if you have read the posts, I am huge on accountability for JA. I feel very strongly that she must be held accountable for what she did. When I describe the love and empathy I felt, it surprised even me. It is not a reflection of what I think needs to happen, but a reflection of all the young children I love that show so many traits of JA - lacking conscience, no empathy, rage, violence, non sense lying, no close attachments. Daily, I work with families that fight the good fight, with such small progress, never knowing if their patience and therapeutic parenting will make any dent in the symptoms or not. JA represents the worst outcome for us. Each day, we hope that we can help turn that around for the kids we love so much. When you talk about the mom laughing in the court room, I bet I could speak volumes as to what she has lived with. I don't know her and won't speculate, but if she is anything like the parents I work with, her emotions seem odd because parenting JA was nothing like parenting a typical child. While totally inappropriate in some of her actions, her mother heart forces her to be there until the end, even as her child testifies she is an abuser and they are not close. I bet that mom would have loved the experience of knowing her child really loved her, even once. Just a guess, but sometimes people laugh so they don't cry.

Thanks for letting me share. I hope this is understood the way it was intended. If not, let me clear it up before you jump on me - grin!
Wow!! I am moved to tears with your post, so honest and from the heart.. Thank you for enlightening and educating me. I feel your pain!
 
For all the kids I work with, there is a high need for control, no empathy, no conscience. It is a sliding scale - some have serious issues, some are more mild. The nonsense lying is constant. It is a sign that they feel the need to control - like their life literally depends on it. For days, I have seen her have the flat affect and the blank eyes. Sometimes, when she says "I don't remember," I almost see her as dissociating. It is odd. You think about how many times she has said "I don't know" about her own reasons and her own feelings. Often, with my kids, that is the way it is. They literally cannot connect to their feelings enough to know why they did what they did. So much of it is truly reactive. That does not mean there is not planning. They are highly susceptible to tremendous rage and anger at the feeling of abandonment or loss of control - even perceived abandonment or loss of control. They have a very fake exterior. I call it the "china doll." It is the smiley, happy, totally in control face you see when she does all the interviews. It is so skilled it is uncanny. It is totally a survival mechanism that they have learned very early on. Out of all kids, these kids are the most socially adept and good at being believed. Even when flat out lying.

But, today has been different. I have to say it has hit me very hard personally. I got into this field because I adopted a child who has had extreme attachment issues. Due to years of helping my child, I have come to see first hand how hard it is to raise a child with these traits of no empathy and no conscience. Like someone posted the other day, you go round and round with the lies - the endless nonsense lies - even the control on little things like the mayonnaise and mustard. The blank eyes and china doll face. You always hope you can make a difference but daily you face issues like JM has on the stand. But, then there is a point. If you can hang in there and be lovingly therapeutic and outlast the chaos, there is a point that you can get to with these children that the total look of all their bottled up shame comes up. They let down their guard for a few moments and you can see the darkness, anger, rage, and pain they carry. Almost a look of defeat.

I saw that look in Jodi today and, for me as a mom, it was the weirdest feeling. I honestly felt love. I recognized that look as the point on the children I work with when they give up the baloney and know they cannot continue - that the act and fake stuff isn't working. At that point, I know as a mom I can help. Of course, in our home and many others, it is little things like mayonnaise or mustard or lying about who hurt the family dog, not murder. But, at the end of the day, all of my families are working to help our kids get conscience and empathy so that things like this don't happen.

With my child, I wait for that look of defeat, of resignation, to know that my child is willing to trust me to help. So many times, I have had to wait patiently, through lots of stuff, to get to that point. But, the moment my child gives up the act, I know I can help. Often, those are some of our most tender moments. It takes so much for a child who has been significantly hurt (such that he or she forms no attachments) to trust with true emotion. When they will trust you, you have a chance to teach them another way. It is incredibly hard because that has been their sole survival.

Today, when I saw the deflated look, I knew JA knew the jury wasn't buying it. She can tell her way hasn't worked. The shame - not of killing TA - but of how defective and different she is from everyone else has hit her. She knows she is different, fundamentally flawed, but, if she can keep up the act and others will believe the act, she feels on top of the world. When that starts to crack, it is a tremendous fall. For a younger child, it is a point of help. For JA, it is a point of realizing it has not worked.

Sharing alot here. But, I work with families all over the world who have adopted kids with the same issues. I go to court with them to get help. I hold their hands when their child beats them up. I help them deal with the no conscience or empathy. I help protect them when their children physically harm them. I love those families because they do the hardest job in the world. JA has highlighted why we do what we do.

When I saw her deflated look, I knew she knew it was over. Today, instead of dark eyes and the smile, I could see the dark eyes and fallen countenance. I saw the "child" that was stunted many many years ago. While she tries to come across as intelligent and is very sophisticated at the act, she seems to me to be emotionally stunted at a 12 year old level. Today, in her countenance, I could see "behind the curtain" of the wizard of Oz. The grand act came crashing down.

I am not saying she will not try to regain the image. And, I am definitely not saying she will not lie. She has to lie to feel any control at all. She almost can't help it, even on stupid things.

But, today, I could see and so recognized the look. I have seen it many times before. The moment she realized it was done. That the act hadn't worked and that people could see through the fake exterior. For her, that was crushing.


Please don't bash here. It took a lot to share this. Please know that, if you have read the posts, I am huge on accountability for JA. I feel very strongly that she must be held accountable for what she did. When I describe the love and empathy I felt, it surprised even me. It is not a reflection of what I think needs to happen, but a reflection of all the young children I love that show so many traits of JA - lacking conscience, no empathy, rage, violence, non sense lying, no close attachments. Daily, I work with families that fight the good fight, with such small progress, never knowing if their patience and therapeutic parenting will make any dent in the symptoms or not. JA represents the worst outcome for us. Each day, we hope that we can help turn that around for the kids we love so much. When you talk about the mom laughing in the court room, I bet I could speak volumes as to what she has lived with. I don't know her and won't speculate, but if she is anything like the parents I work with, her emotions seem odd because parenting JA was nothing like parenting a typical child. While totally inappropriate in some of her actions, her mother heart forces her to be there until the end, even as her child testifies she is an abuser and they are not close. I bet that mom would have loved the experience of knowing her child really loved her, even once. Just a guess, but sometimes people laugh so they don't cry.

Thanks for letting me share. I hope this is understood the way it was intended. If not, let me clear it up before you jump on me - grin!

Thank you so much for posting this. You are really a very special person. This is really touching, and also interesting. Please answer this, if you can: does something happen to these kids to make them this way, or are the born this way, with this flaw?

Because I have seen kids (VERY few), who have such great parents, who love them to death, but are just mean and violent kids. I don't understand.

Thanks in advance if you can answer.
 
You bring up an interesting point. Along with the kero can, she also bought two cans of flammable Neutrogena Sunblock and 2 containers of facial cleanser.

On as limited a budget as she said she was, the almost $20 worth of flammable sunblock imo doesn't rule out arson as a motive for the purchase.

Although that might mean kero. she admits it was a red 5 gallon gas can?
 
I do not think anyone is going to call Matt to testify because he is going to plead the 5th, and also because he has put it in writing that he would lie for Jodi.

However, I think this is why Juan keeps hammering on the point that Matt is so loyal to Jodi and he's an ally and would never betray her -- I think Juan is pre-emptively trying to paint Matt as an unreliable witness because he's on the defense witness list.

Remember the Gus issue with pleading the 5th?

This law states that you are Not entitled to pleading the 5th IF you are not charged and/or directly involved with criminal activity in relation to the crime being questioned as a witness to said crime on the witness stand..

Most people do not realize this is Fact and is why Juan stated to Gus..
"sorry, it doesn't work like that"
hope that helps?

IIRC reading MattM blog entry was (not verbatim) that he is more worried about his being involved to help out a friend due to protecting his job and family given the publicity of this case..
(have no doubts his interview with detectives would have prompted the legal ramifications IF he 'lies' for JA and Nurmi was granted the release of MattM interview :twocents:)
 
Why the long court recess - no court Friday, over the weekend, Monday, or Tuesday. I would think that Arizona would want to keep the trial moving (so that the jurors could do their jobs, a verdict would be reached, the jurors could go back to their lives - if they can do so after serving on this case).
 
Remember the Gus issue with pleading the 5th?

This law states that you are Not entitled to pleading the 5th IF you are not charged and/or directly involved with criminal activity in relation to the crime being questioned as a witness to said crime on the witness stand..

Most people do not realize this is Fact and is why Juan stated to Gus..
"sorry, it doesn't work like that"
hope that helps?

IIRC reading MattM blog entry was (not verbatim) that he is more worried about his being involved to help out a friend due to protecting his job and family given the publicity of this case..
(have no doubts his interview with detectives would have prompted the legal ramifications IF he 'lies' for JA and Nurmi was granted the release of MattM interview :twocents:)

I think Matt's testimony could incriminate himself with obstruction or witness tampering or something along those lines.

I'm pretty familiar with the circumstances in which a person can and cannot plead the 5th ;)
 
Why the long court recess - no court Friday, over the weekend, Monday, or Tuesday. I would think that Arizona would want to keep the trial moving (so that the jurors could do their jobs, a verdict would be reached, the jurors could go back to their lives - if they can do so after serving on this case).

The Judge will always announce it like "she" can't make it.. it sounds like that. But could be Mr Martinez. He did have another case in her court the day before.. that morning.. He might not be able to move something...

it drags on.. and on
 
Actually, I have never returned anything to Walmart because I don't shop there often. Target is my store :great: But I was just looking at Walmart's return policy. I think you can return something without a receipt even if you paid cash. But you are correct, I'm sure you would have to show ID and they would have a record of a return. Here's Wally World's no receipt return policy here -
http://help.walmart.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/190/~/walmart-returns-center#no_receipt

Either way they would have to have a record of it .. No staff member is taking money out of any till without making a record of it. Here the original receipt is stamped, if she didn't have a receipt I agree she would have had to show ID just in case she stole it and was passing it back in for cash. It's one way to avoid the store being continually used by professional shoplifters.

A return without a receipt would involve a supervisor no doubt, and a record would have to be made so the till wasn't out for the day.

Such a silly lie ..
 
The Budget car man said that the car smelled like smoke when she returned it, and she did not want the car because it was red.

Good call.

That Budget invoice had to have been from when she returned the car, because it had all her 2300+ miles on it...

I don't think we've ever seen a document from when she picked the car up.
 
My eyes are crossing and I feel like a truck hit me. This trial is exhausting and I'm thousands of miles away. Heading to the other thread and then try to sleep. Nite all and stay safe. Prayers for all of Travis's family and friends.

Nite, and same to you.
 
What did he say about Matt's January statement?

Dangit I missed most of today and it's impossible to catch up

She said she had told Matt about Travis' alledged pedophilia and Juan asked her if she was aware of the statement Matt had given in January. It sounded like Matt had turned on her but he didn't say anything else about it.

I'm behind (as usual dang it), so apologize if this has already been addressed. But I think Juan was referring to an interview where MM said that he would lie for her (maybe that was in January?). I know we've heard rumblings that MM has flip flopped on that (like a rat bailing from a sinking ship), but I think that might be what Juan's point was today. He wanted her to admit that MM said that. Maybe because he knows something we don't know.

It would be "Juanderful" if he got MM on the stand to totally rebut her whole Pedophilia story. That seems to really stick in Mr. Martinez's craw, and I think he wants to clear the victim's name for the sake of the family. He strikes me as a Prosecutor that doesn't view this as just another case, and that he works very hard for the victim. He seems to be genuinely caring with Travis' family, and IMO views himself as working as much or more for them as he is for the State.

I want to thank all you WSer's just for being here. This case is driving me bonkers. I'm Jodified, Nurminumbed, sextedout and frustrated with the whole thing. If I didn't have you good peeps to ground me I might just be curled up in the corner twitching by now. I'm sending you ALL out a big thank you because you talk too doggone fast for me to thank all of you on all your great posts.


:yourock: :gthanks:all!!!!!!
 
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