11/29/2011 Final prayer vigil for Lisa Irwin

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Well this is just horrible!

Before the Prayer Vigil tonight, frustration and anger was prevalent after a white Lincoln Town Car sped away from the home of Baby Lisa with the mother and children in the car. A citizen yelled, "Sure, that's ok, just leave", a family member or friend of the Irwin family then yelled back, "Who said that?", "Come on, who said that?" No one answered. The female friend / family member then yelled,” Edith, was that you?". Edith Fine -Duskin, (Baby Lisa's Angel as I have named her), then yelled, "No! It wasn't me. You know better than that".

Add a bit of Anthony, a bit of Dunn, and you have a nightmare. This isn't about baby Lisa anymore, it's about DRAMA!!!

Those peeps need to go home and let LE and the FBI do their job. If they want to pray, go to the park, IMHO.

MOO

Mel
 
Well this is just horrible!

Before the Prayer Vigil tonight, frustration and anger was prevalent after a white Lincoln Town Car sped away from the home of Baby Lisa with the mother and children in the car. A citizen yelled, "Sure, that's ok, just leave", a family member or friend of the Irwin family then yelled back, "Who said that?", "Come on, who said that?" No one answered. The female friend / family member then yelled,” Edith, was that you?". Edith Fine -Duskin, (Baby Lisa's Angel as I have named her), then yelled, "No! It wasn't me. You know better than that".

Add a bit of Anthony, a bit of Dunn, and you have a nightmare. This isn't about baby Lisa anymore, it's about DRAMA!!!

Those peeps need to go home and let LE and the FBI do their job. If they want to pray, go to the park, IMHO.

MOO

Mel


I bet some of the drama would go away if the parents acted like they cared about finding their missing child. mo
 
It is very sad. But life does have to go on. Barring a miracle, Lisa is gone. She is either dead, or she has begun a new life as someone else's baby. By now, if no one has turned in the person who adopted a new year-old, blonde/blue baby, I don't see it happening.

DB/JI have two other children to consider. Those boys lives need to become as normalized as possible. They can't go on with the media circus and the constant reminders of their little sister. So long as people keep congregating in front of their home, that's rather impossible. And, if DB/JI are not church-going (or spiritual) people, they may not see any real value in prayer. Prayer groups are not the same as search parties, and at this point, even search parties are not going to find a live Lisa.

So, I can't judge the parents for this. I don't see it as an indicator of guilt. I see it as an indicator of parents who have given up hope of finding their baby. And that is sad. Because, in the end, all they really had left was hope.
BBM Red
Are the boys supposed to forget Lisa existed and then disappeared?

How normal will it be for the two young boys who are also grieving a loss ,to see their parents so quickly give up on finding their sister? They must wonder if Lisa wasn't that important to DB and JI ,are they?

The boys lives can't possibly be normal any time soon.Maybe they can fall back on routines,but that won't stop their minds from trying to make sense of what happened to their sister.
I have kids ranging in age from 10 to 34 . When James died my 5 year old and 16 year old at the time,needed the most help processing what happened and what they saw and were feeling. They remain forever changed.
My then 5 year old just turned 12 and he still asks questions . His world changed in another way ,because I'm not the same person I was before and not the same type of mother I was to the older kids and that's a shame.

DB isn't missing a stuffed animal she loved ,but can replace,it's her daughter ! Parents don't give up :banghead: They just don't . No one has to turn to the baby over. They should be hunted down. Dear God,we've seen real stories of parents who have risked their lives and used every penny they had to recover their child after a parental kidnapping to another country.
People search for their lost pets longer than DB and JI have been missing Lisa.

Do you think any loving protective parent would just shrug and give up ,not knowing if their child was being abused,molested or tortured?

If they are giving up it's because they know what happened and WANT to move on.
Over the last (almost) seven years since my 15 year old son died I've met many parents and grandparents who lost children. I've never met one that wanted people to forget so they could move on. It's the opposite . Others generally expect you to get over it ,which isn't possible.

If the parents have given up in less than 2 months who is supposed to fight for Lisa?
 
BEM: What in the world could they be thinking? Their sister is missing, yet the parents are there every day, not looking for her - and they are not looking for her. Their sister was taken in the middle of the night, out of the very house they are now being made to sleep in every night. I doubt they feel safe just because mommy and daddy are there - mommy was there when Lisa was....kidnapped.

They must be terrified, seriously....and more so when strangers are in the yard and they don't understand why. My heart breaks for these two babies, I hope they are undergoing therapy of some kind.

JMO

I agree, the boys must be terrified about how their sister went missing while they were in the home with their mommy, and now strangers are oustide their home. I, too, hope they get into counseing as soon as possible. None of this can be any good -- not any good at all.

One minute their watching a fairy tale movie with a neighbor, the next day it's all police, strangers, media - and their little sister is GONE. I can't even wrap my head around it.

MOO

Mel
 
BBM Red
Are the boys supposed to forget Lisa existed and then disappeared?

How normal will it be for the two young boys who are also grieving a loss ,to see their parents so quickly give up on finding their sister? They must wonder if Lisa wasn't that important to DB and JI ,are they?

The boys lives can't possibly be normal any time soon.Maybe they can fall back on routines,but that won't stop their minds from trying to make sense of what happened to their sister.
I have kids ranging in age from 10 to 34 . When James died my 5 year old and 16 year old at the time,needed the most help processing what happened and what they saw and were feeling. They remain forever changed.
My then 5 year old just turned 12 and he still asks questions . His world changed in another way ,because I'm not the same person I was before and not the same type of mother I was to the older kids and that's a shame.

DB isn't missing a stuffed animal she loved ,but can replace,it's her daughter ! Parents don't give up :banghead: They don't just don't . No one has to turn to the baby over. They should be hunted down. Dear God,we've seen real stories of parents who have risked their lives and used every penny they had to recover their child after a parental kidnapping to another country.
People search for their lost pets longer than DB and JI have been missing Lisa.

Do you think any loving protective parent would just shrug and give up ,not knowing if their child was being abused,molested or tortured?

If they are giving up it's because they know what happened and WANT to move on.
Over the last (almost) seven years since my 15 year old son died I've met many parents and grandparents who lost children. I've never met one that wanted people to forget so they could move on. It's the opposite . Others generally expect you to get over it ,which isn't possible.

If the parents have given up in less than 2 months who is supposed to fight for Lisa?

Wonderful post! :seeya:
God bless you MissJames and your entire family.

Maybe the family wants to act like the baby never existed. :(
 
Whose idea was it to hold the vigils in their yard in the first place? Is that the norm? I thought they were usually held in a park or something. Honestly I've never been to a vigil but I think I would feel very uncomfortable in someone's yard. I would think it needs to be held where there is ample parking, space, trash cans, seating for those that need it...

It is a school night for gosh sakes. How do the neighbors feel about this and is it scaring their children?

I am all for people praying and believe there is power in numbers. Do they think God's ears are only in the Irwin's yard?

IMO this is not at all about Baby Lisa.

I hope they continue the vigils with some respectful planning.

I recall many weekly vigils in the Anthony's yard and they were welcomed by Cindy and George. I would find it comforting as a mother ,that people cared that much for my child .Most parents of missing children want to keep public attention on their child. There are families who would love some of the media attention to be on their child. JMO
 
The only reason that I contributed to this discussion was the fact that it was reportedly Deborah who said that she didn't want the prayer vigils on the family's property any more. If Jeremy had been quoted as the spokesperson, I wouldn't have questioned this for a nano-second. After all, it is HIS home, HIS property, and JI should have a say in what occurs there.

I've made no secret of my instincts about DB: She is a bully - overly-agressive and very outspoken. The house is not hers, and she should not have the been the one to call the shots about whether or not prayer vigils should or should not take place at Jeremy's house. Time for Jeremy to stop hiding in DB's shadow; she is making him look bad. jmo

BBM

It appears to me that Jeremy's mother delivered (to Ms. Edith F-D) Debbie's and/or Jeremy's message that tonight's prayer vigil would be the last at the Irwin home.

Jeremy is approaching 30 years of age in a couple of years. He is father to two of his own children and in the role of father to Debbie's son. Providing family support is one thing. It is quite another for Mommy to still be making phone calls or delivering messages for her son at this age. Jeremy's current choice of partner is beginning to make a lot more sense to me.
 
If my baby went missing I'd be terrified if people stopped coming by to do vigils.. I'd know my baby was forgotten.. I'd never want that but that's my own opinion....
 
I recall many weekly vigils in the Anthony's yard and they were welcomed by Cindy and George. I would find it comforting as a mother ,that people cared that much for my child .Most parents of missing children want to keep public attention on their child. There are families who would love some of the media attention to be on their child. JMO
Hi MissJames. Do you feel that the young boys would understand what the vigils out in their front yard really mean? Or could it be confusing to them?
 
R U kiddin me? Have Lisa's angels been holding prayer vigils every night in their front lawn? REALLY!

I'm sorry, but as much as I believe DB may have had something to do with the disappearence of her child (and, yes, that is my opinion), these folks should NOT be in their front yard every night. OMGosh that's just horrifying to me.

The group has held nightly vigils since Lisa's disappearance on Oct. 4. Fine-Duskin said she can't understand why the family wants the nightly gathering gone.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...hy-irwin-family-wants-them-gone#ixzz1fAIdELxz

Pray for baby Lisa, but you don't have to bring it to the home where you're not wanted. If the parents aren't coming out to join you wouldn't that be your first clue?

I don't get people sometimes - I really don't.

MOO

Mel

The parents only recently moved back home. Most of time there was no one living there when the vigils were held.
 
Did you notice the "not vetted by CNN" in the top left of the photo? LOL.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-710220?ref=feeds/latest

Yes, I saw this too the other day. Not vetted is because anyone can write on IReport as it's a share your story type deal but your story has not been checked out by CNN...wordpress is another example sort of but who checks there. It's newspeople buying stories somedays.

I kind of like that now the reporter can't sell junk or their op until it's vetted. Not a writer. lol
 
Hi MissJames. Do you feel that the young boys would understand what the vigils out in their front yard really mean? Or could it be confusing to them?

What's confusing to children is when things aren't explained to them ,not talked about .They try to fill in the blanks and that's usually not good.
It would be very simple,IMO to tell them there are people who really care about Lisa and about us,and they want to come be together at our home to show their support and love.

Hopefully the boys are being told the truth in very simple language.They can see what's going on,and need to be able to talk about it.
 
BBM

It appears to me that Jeremy's mother delivered (to Ms. Edith F-D) Debbie's and/or Jeremy's message that tonight's prayer vigil would be the last at the Irwin home.

Jeremy is approaching 30 years of age in a couple of years. He is father to two of his own children and in the role of father to Debbie's son. Providing family support is one thing. It is quite another for Mommy to still be making phone calls or delivering messages for her son at this age. Jeremy's current choice of partner is beginning to make a lot more sense to me.

thank you:clap:
 
Perhaps the whole family wanted it; Mr. Irwin said as much in the video. Mrs. Irwin was the messenger. Does it really matter who said it? A group on your lawn every night?

Respectfully, BBM.

To me it does matter who delivered the message to Ms. Edith F-D. I believe I read her group has performed 20 volunteer searches for BLisa.

It's time for Jeremy and Debbie to grow up. Sometimes, it's that simple. Be respectful. Be humble. Grin and bear feeling uncomfortable for a few minutes: Make the call yourself/yourselves. Neither Jeremy nor Debbie needed an attorney to handle this call or to speak privately to Ms. F-D about this matter. Mommy should not be making phone calls for Jeremy. Daddy did not need to come outside tonight to explain about the prayer vigils for Jeremy.
 
What's confusing to children is when things aren't explained to them ,not talked about .They try to fill in the blanks and that's usually not good.
It would be very simple,IMO to tell them there are people who really care about Lisa and about us,and they want to come be together at our home to show their support and love.

Hopefully the boys are being told the truth in very simple language.They can see what's going on,and need to be able to talk about it.

Thanks for your reply. I agree that trying to fill in the blanks is not a good thing. I see that with adults at times with the same poor results.
 
Locking this thread for night. You guys need a break - you have been at each other throats all day.

Spread out and post in the other threads for awhile.

Thanks,

Salem
 
I am going to reopen this thread, but if the discussion continues to center on guilty/nonguilty and attempting to change the minds of other posters, it will be locked back up again.

Here is the position on DB and JI - yes they are considered victims to some extent BUT their actions on the night that Lisa disappeared and since the night that Lisa disappeared are inconsistent and suspicious and that is discussable.

It is fine to think they are innocent. It is fine to think they are guilty. It is NOT fine to attempt to change the minds of other posters or to attack them for their position in the matter.

If you can't post your own opinion, based on your own interpretation of the facts - without questioning the opinion of others, then don't post. Instead take a minute to review the thread about getting along with your fellow posters. You can find it right here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91915"]Best Practices Dealing with your fellow posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

As always, if you have any questions or concerns, PM a mod and they will help you out.

This post lands at random.

Thanks,

Salem
 
There has been family at every single one I have seen. Just not JI/DB. Several members.

Nightly vigils sound like rather a lot to me and the people arranging them might have considered relocating after the family moved back in. I assume they thought it was okay to keep on doing it since there were family members attending which could be seen as a permission. But maybe JI and DB keeping away should have been taken as a cue to go elsewhere.
 
BBM

It appears to me that Jeremy's mother delivered (to Ms. Edith F-D) Debbie's and/or Jeremy's message that tonight's prayer vigil would be the last at the Irwin home.

Jeremy is approaching 30 years of age in a couple of years. He is father to two of his own children and in the role of father to Debbie's son. Providing family support is one thing. It is quite another for Mommy to still be making phone calls or delivering messages for her son at this age. Jeremy's current choice of partner is beginning to make a lot more sense to me.

E: I thanked your post when I read it this morning but couldn't respond while the thread was locked. As it turns out, the request to not have future vigils at the Irwin home is third-party information, at best. I'll take it for what it is: He and/or she said, she said, she said, we heard. Whatever :rolleyes:

Deborah and Jeremy both seem very immature; they deserve each other. jmo
 
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