17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[Sensei]

Didn't GZ have flashlights with him too? Were they maglight hard or tactical? Could leave a nasty abrasion. Wonder if they were confiscated?

I believe that I read somewhere that they were tactical, but I don't know if they were confiscated.

 

[LambChop]

Nothing, of course. I was talking about likelihoods/probability.

While it's possible that you're being followed by a nutjob, it's more likely to be what I said - someone just suspicious of someone who is unfamiliar.

Besides, even if it is a nutjob, that doesn't justify breaking his nose and beating him.

Isn't it likely that GZ sustained those injuries when he fell. Isn't also likely that GZ was trying to keep TM from leaving the area where GZ knew his truck would be found and may have grabbed TM's arm or sleeve of his hoodie and that is how the argument started. A witness said she saw two figures run past her condo and since GZ never claimed he ran from TM would it not make more sense that GZ was running after TM to keep him from getting away. What would you expect TM to do in that case? Certainly not thank him for his diligence in tracking him down. GZ's story just does not add up. It's as strange as his call is to the LE dispatcher. jmo

 

[Nova]

He doesn't have to. When THs say "he has to" they mean if defense wants to win SYG hearing they should put GZ on the stand. But there is no law that says GZ has to testify as far as I can tell.

Thank you, jenny. That's what I thought.

 

[suzihawk]

StorieS

Frankly, I wouldn't believe GZ if his tongue came notarized.

:floorlaugh:

 

[HiHater]

Boohoo, poor city of Sanford. It's hard to decide which one to feel more sorry for, Zimmerman or Sanford.


Sanford police dispute criticism over Trayvon Martin’s death...

“We are not that monster that they are showing on TV, in the newspaper,” O’Connor said. “That it's not true, in spite of what some people would say, it's not true.”

He said they have been financially and emotionally stretched.

O’Connor said they have maxed out overtime after having to add extra patrols for rallies and other events that have taken place. He said officers have been working six or seven days straight.



http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2012/4/24/sanford_police_dispu.html

BBM

I don't know why anyone would care. If those officers would have just worked ONE night, Feb 26, they wouldn't be in this mess...JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Nothing, of course. I was talking about likelihoods/probability.

While it's possible that you're being followed by a nutjob, it's more likely to be what I said - someone just suspicious of someone who is unfamiliar.

Besides, even if it is a nutjob, that doesn't justify breaking his nose and beating him.

Justifies it if the nutjob carries his phone right next to his concealed weapon and in reaching for his waistband the person thought he was going for his gun.

 

[HiHater]

But when defense attorney questioned him he said the injuries were consistent.

Not exactly

(you have to watch the video to get the full exchange)

GILBREATH: Managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found.

O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they?

Gilbreath: The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was.

O'MARA: Could that be cement?

GILBREATH: Could be.

O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent?

GILBREATH: I said it was.


BBM
It's actually kind of confusing to tell what he's saying is consistent with what IMO

 

[Nova]

There is nothing unlawful about asking that question, and it certainly does not justify battery, so I don't understand why that's relevant.

Besides, GZ's story is that he was merely following him. After all, he knew the police were on their way, so it makes sense his goal was simply to not lose him. But he also says that he lost him, and so was returning to his vehicle when TM found him, and that's when the talking/questioning started.

So I don't see how the keep an eye on him from a distance theory is blown at all.

Remember, between having something like five minutes of recorded phone conversation with the police dispatcher, knowing that the police were about to arrive, and seeing that TM was himself using the phone, he did not have a whole lot of wiggle room to come up with some kind of diabolical plan, and GZ doesn't strike me as someone who could even do that with time to plan it, much less pulling it off on the fly like that. Minutes after the shooting the police did show up, and he had to answer questions. If his story was a lie, then it would be extremely unlikely that it wouldn't have the kinds of holes in it you think you found here.

Maybe it does have such holes, but this is not one.

Much of what you say makes sense, but it doesn't take a "diabolical plan" to claim "he hit me first!". Even toddlers learn to tell that lie.

 

[Nova]

I agree they were face to face at some point, but that does not necessarily mean that GZ approached TM. I believe that Trayvon was angry that GZ was watching him and doubled back to teach GZ a lesson.

Based on what evidence, may I ask?

 

[Phoenixfla]

From he slurring words on the 911 tape I believe it was George who was planning on teaching a lesson that night. IMO

Could be. I just hope everyone keeps an open mind.

 

[curl_in_progress]

I'm not forgetting that at all. It has no relevance whatsoever, since GZ was breaking no laws for simply following someone, especially in a private gated community.

Being followed by a crazy person is a pretty unlikely situation in a gated community. Much more likely is it's someone like a busybody on the board of the HOA, or some other do-gooder resident snooping around to make sure nobody unauthorized is in the community (as GZ turned out to be).

But the more important point is that noticing someone unfamiliar walking around, thinking they're suspicious, calling the police to report them, and getting out of one's vehicle to follow them, even if told by the police dispatcher that that is unnecessary, is all perfectly legal. As far as I know, there is absolutely nothing legally wrong with doing any and all of that, and it's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do in a private gated community, especially by the neighborhood watch dude.

Your expectation that a 17 year old would have the experience to think that a "crazy person" wouldn't be in a gated community and that the individual following him around was just a "busybody on the board of the HOA, or some other do-gooder resident" is absurd.<Mod Snip>Since you like to place expectations on others, lets put some expectations on George Zimmerman or anyone as overzealous as he is. Seeing a teenager walking in your neighborhood at 7:00pm could mean that he's just walking home or there to visit a friend and isn't suspicious at all. Don't expect the worst when the person has done nothing wrong. If you're the neighborhood watch, it is expected that you do not carry a loaded gun to follow behind someone to see what they are up to. And if you want to claim that you're not acting in that capacity in that moment when you decided to follow him, and you're so concerned for your safety and the safety of your community, then it is expected you call the cops and WAIT for them to arrive. And when dispatch tells you they don't need you to follow someone, it is expected that you keep your *** in your car. If they find that they can't follow the expectations above, then when the person that is being followed asks why, it is expected that you identify yourself from a distance and stay out of that person's personal space.

Had Zimmerman met basic expectations that night, Trayvon would not be dead. <Mod Snip>

MOO

 

[rossva]

Are there any MSM links that have stated Zimmerman was "slurring" on the 911 call?

From he slurring words on the 911 tape I believe it was George who was planning on teaching a lesson that night. IMO

 

[highflyer]

I've also been searching without luck for a video that showed Mr. Zimmerman leaning against the wall after getting out of the police car. It showed a slightly lower view and when he leaned briefly against the wall, his arms at shoulder height went to his sides. I tried that with my hands clasped together behind me and was unable to it and tied my spouses hands and spouse was unable to do it either. The video was from a news site out of the US and that is all I can remember but I'm gonna find that again, because it is driving me bananas.

 

[Allusonz]

Why wouldn't GZ's lawyer ask for SYG hearing considering those other cases where judges granted SYG immunity? Posters here constantly point out that GZ put himself into the situation. And yet there appears to be plenty of other cases where people put themselves into the situations-and got SYG immunity. Some of those cases are pretty mind boggling to me yet those people got immunity just the same.

Richard Hornsby makes an interesting argument.

"As a result, the charge of Second Degree Murder would be subject to dismissal under Florida’s self-defense law"

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2012/04/who-was-the-first-aggressor/

 

[Nova]

I have no idea what this post means.

I don't speak for jenny, but I believe she means that SYG immunity is granted so easily and often, it seem unlikely that any attorney wouldn't take a shot at it.

 

[HiHater]

Why wouldn't GZ's lawyer ask for SYG hearing considering those other cases where judges granted SYG immunity? Posters here constantly point out that GZ put himself into the situation. And yet there appears to be plenty of other cases where people put themselves into the situations-and got SYG immunity. Some of those cases are pretty mind boggling to me yet those people got immunity just the same.

I have read some pretty mind-boggling cases where the person didn't get SYG immunity. It's a 50/50 chance, and each case is different. To risk your client's freedom simply because someone else got off is not a winning strategy IMO

 

[Sensei]

Not exactly

(you have to watch the video to get the full exchange)

GILBREATH: Managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found.

O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they?

Gilbreath: The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was.

O'MARA: Could that be cement?

GILBREATH: Could be.

O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent?

GILBREATH: I said it was.


BBM
It's actually kind of confusing to tell what he's saying is consistent with what IMO

It is a bit confusing, IMO what he is saying is that GZ's statement is that he managed to scoot his head away from the cement sidewalk and that is when the shooting happened and that is NOT consistant with the evidence that they found


But that the injuries to GZ's head appear to be consistant with his head hitting an object that is harder than his head and that could be concrete or a bowling ball or the side of a building....but that the injuries could be consistant with hitting his head on concrete. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[jaded cat]

Much of what you say makes sense, but it doesn't take a "diabolical plan" to claim "he hit me first!". Even toddlers learn to tell that lie.

I was a toddler once and I know I used that lie a lot! :floorlaugh:

 

[HiHater]

ugh this thread is sooo interesting, but I have to stop reading and fix dinner.. hmmm wonder how hubby would feel about having pizza delivered

Just order it, then tell him it's not delivery---it's DiGiorno...:floorlaugh:

 

[suzihawk]

Actually many community associations require the buyer apply to the association for approval. That generally involves a background search and the association can disapprove someone if they were convicted of one of those things.

I wonder if Ted Bundy would've been approved before it was discovered he was a mass murder?

I don't think Denis Radar (BTK killer) had a prior record. Would he be approved?

What about Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)? He didn't have any priors, IIRC.