2008.06.16 James T. says he saw Caylee alive around Noon #1

[lin]

Another dated view of Parker Plaza here: http://www.costar.com/costarconnect/MasterPage/main.aspx?SiteID=20327,43679&LogRedirect=1

• Travel /Cruises business (reverse side of sign @ top)
• Marhsall Mortgage Company
• Laser Xtend
• Hair Den
• VersaTILE Arts (reverse side of sign)...maybe a craft/tile store?
• Adorable Poodle dog grooming

Craft store sounds like a good bet -- scrapbooking, stickers, etc. but KC being KC wouldn't surprise me if she didn't waste some travel agent's time with an imaginary vacation coming up from her high paying event planner gig...

 

[lin]

So if we take this guy's statement at face value instead of re-writing it to suit any of our own theories, we have him around noon seeing KC and Caylee at the Casselberry Walmart.

From the timeline:

http://70.32.85.110/app/viewer.php?uid=line_ea980240a9422d8762f92b3b657a62aa

pings have KC at/near the Anthony home until 11:52 a.m. pings then have her at/near the Anthony home again at 12:53 p.m.

So it's approximately a 23 minute drive from the Anthony home to the Casselberry Walmart. That's 46 minutes round-trip. Which leaves 15 minutes to park, walk in, do whatever, walk out to car, get Caylee back in carseat, etc.

All to go to a Walmart we have no reason to think KC frequented and for which she would have had to have passed her favorite stores (Target), CVS, etc.

There's not really all that much at a Walmart 13 miles away that you couldn't get at a Target (9 miles) or Walgreens (7 miles), Costco (10 miles), etc.

This 1 hour time frame is the only available for her to be at Walmart on the 16th (around noon).

Did he say around noon or around lunchtime? If he was closing the store at 9pm, his "lunchtime" may have been much later. Was he specific about the time? I don't recall.

 

[lin]

I think this behavior was probably common when it came to casey's parenting skills. She just hid her true feelings around her family and friends but maybe was more obvious about her dislike for the child when no one she knew was around.
I don't think she beat Caylee to death. I don't think anything in particular set casey off that day. I think she planned the destruction of her child for months, hence the computer searches for missing kids, chloroform, breaking necks, etc., in March, 2008. casey decided to finally do it after a cumulation of events, such as her boyfriend not welcoming Caylee to spend the night and saying he only wanted boys, not girls, her mother becoming more suspicious of casey's employment status and refusing to babysit as much on nights, telling casey insetad thnat she needs to get a job and watch her own child, casey's friends getting to party whenever they wanted to and go on cool trips while casey had to sit home, Caylee getting old enough to articulate where she went with mom and finally, casey being caught stealing from family, causing a huge fight between her and CA on Father's Day. All of this made the moment "right" for casey to go through with a plan she had in the works for months.
I think in casey's mind, her mom would not come down on her so hard and casey would not have to steal so much if Caylee were not around because then, there would be no,"You need to take care of your own daughter, your "mistake". You are bad mother. You need to be repsonible and get a job." casey had to come up with material goods to prove she was working and get her mom of her back. She also linked these admonisions with Caylee because if Caylee was not around, casey thought CA would have no reason to pester casey for being "irresponsible" and not working. Also, she might be given a lot more freedom and allowed to sit around not working if she was seen as the grieving mom of a missing kid.
No, I don't think Caylee's murder was a result of a mom snapping and suddenly killing her kid. casey is a cold, sinister, pre-meditated murderer of her own, beautiful little girl. The one who was taking her place as the princess of the family and the one who, by her very existence, was relegating casey to Cinderella status in her very own home. Killing Caylee would thus allow the rest of the Cinderella story to occur - the evil stepsisters and stepmother would be rendered irrelevant and casey would be free in a lovely, fairy tale world and finally get her prince.

Great post but I disagree in one minor area: I don't think KC put much effort into playing the role of a good mom for her family. CA was seeking help from a therapist and had been advised to seek custody for a reason and it wasn't just that KC didn't have a job. It takes a LOT more than that to get a custody change, especially from a parent to a grandparent and I'd expect most therapists to know that because they are often called in on these kinds of cases.

 

[lin]

I think that a lot of people are putting too much emphasis on the importance of JT's written statement. His statement is not so crucial that if it is discredited, it would impact the trial. It may serve to support a "timeline" presented by the SA, but I doubt that anything hinges on it. As experts will testify to a timeframe that death likely occurred, the SA will likely offer this witness testimony as supporting a sighting of Caylee as of a certain date. His claims may be discredited, but they have been made AND he has given a sworn statement.

I think that speculation into conversations that could have occurred, questioning her need for a monitor, etc....may be overanalyzing this statement. I think its' relevence is nothing more than an opportunity to support a timeframe in this case. Often a witness will take their oath, be asked one question, give a brief answer, and then thanked for their time. Put enough of those brief statements together, and you have supporting testimony to add credibility to your claim as it may be.

And maybe you have something to try to get GA to 'fess up that he did NOT see them on the 16th at all. Not sayin' this is what's going on, just throwing it out as a possibility.

 

[lin]

(Respectfully snipped)
I totally agree with the first part of this snipped section of your post and this rant isn't directed at you! I rarely repspond in defence of any of the players or potential players in the case and I don't really want to defend this guy either but I've seen him called "freak", "pervert" etc. I mean, no wonder he waited a year to come forward, this is the kind of treatment he knew he'd be subjected to (assuming of course he's legitimate, which I'm not sure about but I don't see him as a weirdo at all).

I don't know what the male/female ratio is on this site but I'm pretty sure it's predominently female just from my observations. That being said it doesn't surprise me that it's hard for a lot of you to understand or try to understand where this guy's coming from. So what if he thought she had a nice body, she does! She's very attractive too. Is she a dispicable human being? IMO yes. But don't rake a guy over the coals for being honest about how he was feeling a year ago after seeing a pretty woman.

If this guy's a pervert and a freak for what he said/thought then I'm in big trouble, and don't forget he's describing the way he felt after seeing her for the first time. It's not like he knew her and the type of person she is. IMO that's the only saving grace that KC has is her looks and her body, why wouldn't a man notice that.

P.S. Anybody who really believes that just about any 42 year old man won't look at just about any attractive 22 year old woman in a "more than friendly" manner needs to catch up with the real world.

Don't forget he also says that he was not willing to overlook her cold heart even though he thought she had a hot body.

ETA: If that's true, that sort of seems anti- perv, freak or weirdo to me cos imo the pervs, freaks and weirdos don't much care about a heart or personality or intelligence or, well, you get where I'm headed.

 

[sleutherontheside]

And maybe you have something to try to get GA to 'fess up that he did NOT see them on the 16th at all. Not sayin' this is what's going on, just throwing it out as a possibility.

We think alike.

 

[countzero]

Great post but I disagree in one minor area: I don't think KC put much effort into playing the role of a good mom for her family. CA was seeking help from a therapist and had been advised to seek custody for a reason and it wasn't just that KC didn't have a job. It takes a LOT more than that to get a custody change, especially from a parent to a grandparent and I'd expect most therapists to know that because they are often called in on these kinds of cases.

Ah, Lin. You know I normally agree with ya, but this time I can't. There has not been any document released yet where LE has verified that CA saw a counselor. It was in CA's supervisor's statement, where CA complained about KC and CA telling her supervisor that CA saw a counselor, but nothing else has been released from the SA office about this.

And we know CA is anything but truthful, ya know her "mis-truths or half-truths". Me thinks this is but another example of one of many.

I asked this yesterday in the question and answer thread. Now, in the event that I missed it, let me know so I can read it. I did a search here and on docstore and came up empty.

 

[cecybeans]

We think alike.

The defense cannons may be getting ready to turn around - they could equally benefit at this point from GA's testimony - any of it - being below credible. Even, and especially, his GJ testimony.

If the Anthonys are perceived badly enough in the media, the defense could use them as either mitigating factors, or throw their ambiguous involvement in the aftermath of the situation enough to confuse reasonable doubt. This could be a double-edged sword if wielded by the right hand, imo (not that JB is in any way adept at jurisprudence fencing, I meant one of the hired guns).

 

[sleutherontheside]

The defense cannons may be getting ready to turn around - they could equally benefit at this point from GA's testimony - any of it - being below credible. Even, and especially, his GJ testimony.

If the Anthonys are perceived badly enough in the media, the defense could use them as either mitigating factors, or throw their ambiguous involvement in the aftermath of the situation enough to confuse reasonable doubt. This could be a double-edged sword if wielded by the right hand, imo (not that JB is in any way adept at jurisprudence fencing, I meant one of the hired guns).

Oh Cecy....no worries, I would NEVER think you were referring to Josebgood. And as far as the double-edged sword, I think this may ring true for a number of other issues as well. BUT, I still trust that justice will be served.

 

[lin]

Ah, Lin. You know I normally agree with ya, but this time I can't. There has not been any document released yet where LE has verified that CA saw a counselor. It was in CA's supervisor's statement, where CA complained about KC and CA telling her supervisor that CA saw a counselor, but nothing else has been released from the SA office about this.

And we know CA is anything but truthful, ya know her "mis-truths or half-truths". Me thinks this is but another example of one of many.

I asked this yesterday in the question and answer thread. Now, in the event that I missed it, let me know so I can read it. I did a search here and on docstore and came up empty.

Well, just let me rephrase: Apparently CA told a coworker that was the situation so imo, CA probably wasn't as likely to get the "good mom" act from KC as were some others who were deemed worthy of that effort by KC. My point wasn't the truth of there being a therapist; it was that I don't think KC expended that kind of effort around the folks very much. If a therapist really was involved, yes, I'd expect them to have that knowledge and given CA's propensity to want to present the perfect family... Well, I think her making those statements to a coworker are pretty telling about what CA really thought of KC's parenting and it wasn't that it qualified for mother of the year! lol

 

[lin]

The defense cannons may be getting ready to turn around - they could equally benefit at this point from GA's testimony - any of it - being below credible. Even, and especially, his GJ testimony.

If the Anthonys are perceived badly enough in the media, the defense could use them as either mitigating factors, or throw their ambiguous involvement in the aftermath of the situation enough to confuse reasonable doubt. This could be a double-edged sword if wielded by the right hand, imo (not that JB is in any way adept at jurisprudence fencing, I meant one of the hired guns).

Which is all a very good argument why the state wouldn't want to put so much emphasis on this new witness because he undermines the credibility of another witness they've needed in the past and may feel they need in the future. Therefore, they may think the new witness is pretty important, kwim?

 

[countzero]

Well, just let me rephrase: Apparently CA told a coworker that was the situation so imo, CA probably wasn't as likely to get the "good mom" act from KC as were some others who were deemed worthy of that effort by KC. My point wasn't the truth of there being a therapist; it was that I don't think KC expended that kind of effort around the folks very much. If a therapist really was involved, yes, I'd expect them to have that knowledge and given CA's propensity to want to present the perfect family... Well, I think her making those statements to a coworker are pretty telling about what CA really thought of KC's parenting and it wasn't that it qualified for mother of the year! lol

I don't think KC cared what CA thought about her mothering skills or rather lack of them. Now her immediate friends who knew of Caylee and had been around her, yep I think she played the Snow White role. Peer pressure kinda/sorta stuff. And I totally agree with ya now

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW...just adding that the report of duct tape on the posters is a decent indication that the tape roll was left @ G&C's....IOW...not in the Pontiac and available out'n-about 6/16.

So....if you buy JT's sighting 6/16...

(1) a pre-4:11PM sighting allows Casey to return home and still allows duct tape to be employed peri-mortem as an aggravating...if not THE cause of death

(2) a post-4:11PM sighting doesn't allow Casey to return home until 6/17PM which would mean the duct tape was employed post-mortem (e.g. many reasons offered...one being a staged kidnapping).

Another poster pointed me to the forensic emails about coffin flies vs. blow flies (Jolynna posted) that would possibly be indicative of Caylee being placed in the trunk alive. For months I have held onto the absence of fingerprints inside the trunk as a sign Caylee wasn't placed in there alive . I'm loosening my grip on that notion now. :cry:

 

[cecybeans]

FWIW...just adding that the report of duct tape on the posters is a decent indication that the tape roll was left @ G&C's....IOW...not in the Pontiac and available out'n-about 6/16.

So....if you buy JT's sighting 6/16...

(1) a pre-4:11PM sighting allows Casey to return home and still allows duct tape to be employed peri-mortem as an aggravating...if not THE cause of death

(2) a post-4:11PM sighting doesn't allow Casey to return home until 6/17PM which would mean the duct tape was employed post-mortem (e.g. many reasons offered...one being a staged kidnapping).

Another poster pointed me to the forensic emails about coffin flies vs. blow flies (Jolynna posted) that would possibly be indicative of Caylee being placed in the trunk alive. For months I have held onto the absence of fingerprints inside the trunk as a sign Caylee wasn't placed in there alive . I'm loosening my grip on that notion now. :cry:

Good point about the tape staying at Hopespring (though it may also have been returned later). We might not be able to determine whether the tape is ante or peri-mortem, but if the coffin flies theory is correct, then it would most likely be ante-mortem, and if that is the case, homicide is definitive, imo, regardless of lack of actual COV. Add to the fact there are multiple layers, I think it would indicate an attempt to cover both orifices - completely unnecessary if Caylee were already dead of other causes, and certainly more than would be necessary on an already unconscious child. And even if we had no fp evidence on the duct tape, if the first or second layer showed signs of being twisted or pulled, then it could further indicate ante-mortem application and a struggle.

I know what you mean about the ick factor in all of this. The fact so many good people have held on to as much of a presumption of innocence (or suspension of disbelief) as possible completely contradicts CA's claims about those of us in cyber-speculation "disseminating hatred toward the Anthony family". Sometimes I think they are lucky people have remained as calm as they have, given their incessant antics.

 

[Just Jayla]

I wonder if it is possible that KC did attempt to connect a monitor to her laptop, and this caused the blue screen o'death. I remember reading that Windows had a problem with certain plug n plays causing this.

ETA, this would had to have happened right before CA came flyin in, because TL saw her using the laptop at one point that day.

 

[Just Jayla]

Maybe TL or roomate had a monitor and she wanted to try it out? Ultimately, would she be using this for "event planning?".....She could use that technique to run videos at Fusian, but she would want to hook up to a projector or a big screen there, I would think...

 

[essies]

I think this is an interesting witness. I wonder why he waited so long to come forward and why no other witness remembers seeing Casey and Caylee that day at Walmart. I believe all Walmarts have a door greeter - I would think that person would have noticed them (particularily Caylee struggling with a heavy door) and possibly a cashier who checked them out. I also wish that LE had asked this witness what Caylee was wearing that day.

If you take a look at JT's myspace (I can't link it here-but just google james thompson+techbay and there's a link you can use-once there he has a link to the current page) you will find out quite a bit about him! Quite educated-BS from the Air Force Academy, also graduated *advertiser censored* Laude with a BS from UNCA in Computer Science. Besides owning his own business - he teaches at New Horizons (not sure what that is) and UCF. He's been President and past President of a couple of computer societies and holds quite a few certifications. He has a slideshow which shows his family which includes 2 daughters that he seems to care for extremely! However-no picture of a wife!! I'm assuming that is why there is a reference to "bad mothers" and "heartless females" in his statement-maybe going thru some personal drama of his own!!:waitasec:
Why did he take so long to get in touch with the police? Well, I'm thinking -if he is already having some personal drama in his own life maybe he felt he didn't want to or need to add any more. But, as time went by his conscience may have got the best of him-after all he had a personal encounter with Caylee (if his story is true)-he actually saw her sitting in his store and made her smile!! We have never met her and yet she has become unforgettable to us!! Imagine how it must be for him?? I'm hoping for Caylee's justice this guy turns out to be one of the good guys-goodness knows there are enough bad apples already involved in this case!! Just in her family alone!!:furious:

 

[Leila]

Great post but I disagree in one minor area: I don't think KC put much effort into playing the role of a good mom for her family. CA was seeking help from a therapist and had been advised to seek custody for a reason and it wasn't just that KC didn't have a job. It takes a LOT more than that to get a custody change, especially from a parent to a grandparent and I'd expect most therapists to know that because they are often called in on these kinds of cases.

IMO, I don't think a psychologist would have advised Cindy to seek custody of Caylee without a fairly detailed list of situations in which Caylee had been endangered by Casey's actions or in-actions. Counselors just don't advise that a parent lose custody of their child without substantial proof of child endangerment.

Based on this, I would agree that Casey wasn't on her best behavior around her family. I think she would try to impress her friends, and especially her male friends, with how good a mother she was, which is why we're not hearing anything from her friends about any abuse.

If the report of an encounter with JT on June 9th at his computer shop is correct, Casey may have felt that a stranger, a clerk, wasn't someone she had to impress. Likewise, JT seeing her at Walmart on June 16th, if true, was how Casey may have acted on a routine basis around strangers.

I'm reminded of a report very early in the case when Yuri stated that a hairdresser reported that she had seen Caylee with bruises and described a bruise under one eye. He said that he also had a photo from a cell phone that showed Caylee with a bruise under one eye.

 

[Baxter]

Ah, Lin. You know I normally agree with ya, but this time I can't. There has not been any document released yet where LE has verified that CA saw a counselor. It was in CA's supervisor's statement, where CA complained about KC and CA telling her supervisor that CA saw a counselor, but nothing else has been released from the SA office about this.

And we know CA is anything but truthful, ya know her "mis-truths or half-truths". Me thinks this is but another example of one of many.

I asked this yesterday in the question and answer thread. Now, in the event that I missed it, let me know so I can read it. I did a search here and on docstore and came up empty.

Below is the link to Shirley P(Cindy's mom) interview with detectives. She goes into detail of how Cindy explained her counseling session and what to do about custody of Caylee.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18974289/detail.html

 

[SuziQ]

I am way behind on this thread but just wanted to weigh in on security cameras for Walmart and the computer guy. Most systems now do not use a tape that reloops. They are stored digitally and you can pretty much keep an indefinite amount of recording. I had an instance I needed walmart to pull something up for me that was six months old. It took them less than a day. I would also imagine that a computer guy has an up to date system that at least records on DVD. And DVD's are pennies for a computer guy.