2009.01.21 Document Release

[capps]

I still think the cheese containers were just what was in the trash from Tone's as It has been stated by LE that the trash bag in the trunk was trash from Tone's apt.
and perhapes they made mac and cheese or somthing..

Why would KC have Tones' garbage from his apt. in the trunk of her car?

 

[CarrieBean]

Ok I read through all the pages of posts just now and I have so much to say

But first, one note, the DNA Parentage Test Report (item K-1) was sent TO the FBI, not back from them. I would imagine this is the report from JG's paternity test and was used as a clear sample of Caylee's DNA for comparison to all items. Evidence sent by County to FBI documents Page 23

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong, but I understood Item K-1 to be Casey's buccal sample...?

 

[CarrieBean]

Why would KC have Tones' garbage from his apt. in the trunk of her car?

IIRC, that's what Tony wondered. To try to mask the smell?

 

[TakeNote]

Why would KC have Tones' garbage from his apt. in the trunk of her car?

it was said that the garbage bag in the trunk of the car .....cantained garbage trash from TonE's

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Can you provide the link where the order is by Osco ?

Ta

Wouldn't that be a given since the doc it came from was a request to the FBI lab to run the test? The OCSO are the only people in this case they are taking in evidence from, imo.

 

[Rumpole]

Which bag came first?

I have seen several posts, as well as links to news articles regarding whether the remains were in the garbage bag first and then the laundry bag, or the laundry bag first and then the garbage bag.

The actual terminology from the report is:

"The remains appeared to have originally been within a black garbage bag and within a cloth laundry hamper bag." Search Warrant, Page 6

I don't think it can be determined from this wording which was the inner bag and which was the outer bag. It could be read either way, IMO.

MR said in the second 911 call Page 7 that he saw a "gray, vinyl-like bag, like a pool cover or something like that".

To me that doesn't sound like a cloth laundry bag or a black garbage bag.

I agree. Ambiguous. Funny old thing the English language but.....
In the large report p42, investigator viewing the intact scene descibes seeing the skull etc, and item 4. is "I observed a black plastic bag in front of the skull"

 

[JaneInOz]

I just read the doc in question with the evidence and it absolutely has

CA Hair and buccal swab
GA Hair and Buccal Swab
LA Hair and buccal swab

WITH A NOTE added with

NOTE: "Please compare DNA profile of Lee Anthony against DNA profile of Caylee Anthony

 

[DawnTCB]

Maybe you understand DNA better than I do and would love if you could explain how JG's paternity test could possibly be used as a "clear" sample of Caylee's DNA????? And what precisely are you saying they would be comparing to all items...JG's DNA, Caylee's, a combo?...I am very confused??

I have no idea what this means and I suspect others who know something about DNA are similarly confused. I would be grateful if you could explain it to us.

To do a paternity test they would need a DNA sample from the mother, the child, and the potential father. Since they did that test with JG, that test would have a clean sample of Caylee's DNA for comparison to other items. Normally it would be difficult to get a DNA sample from a missing child. They would be forced to use items like hairbrushes or toothbrushes to get a sample of the child's DNA to use for other testing, and those items may not yield a full DNA profile, and could have been used by other people giving a contaminated sample. In addition, in this case where there is no identified father, attempting to get a full profile would be extremely difficult. I think we saw this when the first hair came back with the death band. Because they could only use mDNA testing, they could not determine for certain if the hair was Caylee's or KC's. Of course, since KC was alive and well, it would need to be Caylee's, but they could not tell for sure without another hair that was definitely Caylee's to compare.

The paternity test would have included an irrefutable sample of Caylee's DNA, hers and only hers. Most paternity tests that I have heard have the samples obtained under controlled conditions (i.e. with a doctor present) so there can be no questioning of the authenticity of the samples. I think that is why they sent it.

The other testing would include DNA found on things like the stains in the trunk, the shovel, stains in AL's vehicle, debris in the truck, bodily fluid stains on KC's clothes in her closet, etc.

Does that help?

 

[JaneInOz]

Which bag came first?

I have seen several posts, as well as links to news articles regarding whether the remains were in the garbage bag first and then the laundry bag, or the laundry bag first and then the garbage bag.

The actual terminology from the report is:

"The remains appeared to have originally been within a black garbage bag and within a cloth laundry hamper bag." Search Warrant, Page 6

I don't think it can be determined from this wording which was the inner bag and which was the outer bag. It could be read either way, IMO.

MR said in the second 911 call Page 7 that he saw a "gray, vinyl-like bag, like a pool cover or something like that".

To me that doesn't sound like a cloth laundry bag or a black garbage bag.

GOD no wonder we are all confused when there are so many different acounts ! lol

Sounds like the remains were in both ?
Maybe the top half was laundry bag and bottom half Black garbage bag
OR the other way around ?

 

[windy91195]

Psychologically I would say the sticker indicates someone close to the child. Think about it...if this had truly been a kidnapping by an outside entity, that person or persons would not have put a heart shaped sticker on the duct tape. That sort of thing is indicative of a mother who killed her child. Or in Casey's case...someone who figures if she makes it "look nice" it will all work out.

Kinda twisted considering she comes from a family that's all about appearances, doncha think?

I hope this hasn't been brought up, I am sorry if it has, ..............but on the thread with Casey's photobucket items.....IIRC,she has all kinds of dark art with red heart balloons and red hearts....supposedly, she downloaded these images AFTER June 16...........

 

[Rumpole]

GOD no wonder we are all confused when there are so many different acounts ! lol

Sounds like the remains were in both ?
Maybe the top half was laundry bag and bottom half Black garbage bag
OR the other way around ?

In the large report p42, investigator viewing the intact scene descibes seeing the skull etc, and item 4. is "I observed a black plastic bag in front of the skull"

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Dawn, it is confusing. I believe that by the time it was seen by RK that the laundry bag would have been silty from the flood and with the decompositional fluids etc...it would have been rather...vinyl in appearance, if you catch my meaning. In that scenario, I would have to think the garbage bag was inside the laundry bag. The gray is from being filthy, out in the elements, and having the remains spilled onto/into it.

 

[Rumpole]

Dawn, it is confusing. I believe that by the time it was seen by RK that the laundry bag would have been silty from the flood and with the decompositional fluids etc...it would have been rather...vinyl in appearance, if you catch my meaning. In that scenario, I would have to think the garbage bag was inside the laundry bag. The gray is from being filthy, out in the elements, and having the remains spilled onto/into it.

What do you think an experienced crime scene investigator ment by: "I observed a black plastic bag in front of the skull"

That seems pretty clear to me. He did not see a laundry bag. I guess it must have been inside the plastic bag?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I hope this hasn't been brought up, I am sorry if it has, ..............but on the thread with Casey's photobucket items.....IIRC,she has all kinds of dark art with red heart balloons and red hearts....supposedly, she downloaded these images AFTER June 16...........

Don't be sorry! JWG did beat you to it tho and they are posted on the Heart sticker thread.

 

[Cerenity2u]

I found that very interesting too. Particularly when I consider his jail visits with her...I would have thought he was incapable of getting angry at her. He sits there all calm and sweetheart with her when her child is missing, so it's hard to imagine anything would ever get him angry at her, if not losing her child.

ITA. GA has been very patient with her...too patient IMO. Also, If they were fighting so badly, I find it odd that KC would choose GA as the one sole person she wanted to see for her Aug. 14 jail visit, over any other person in her family. She didn't want to see her mom because she claimed CA would dominate her, and she didn't want to see LA because she claimed he would only interrogate her...so she chose GA, the one she fought with the most?....Is CA telling the truth? Or was she not wanting to admit that the fights were between her and KC, and use GA for the scape goat to her fellow employees? CA is the one who fought with KC on the night of june 15. CA is the one who choked KC out of the house according to reports....not GA.

 

[DawnTCB]

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong, but I understood Item K-1 to be Casey's DNA...?

In the list of items sent to the FBI and the list of items received by the FBI, the Parentage Report is listed as item K-1. In the last page of the document it lists the items the FBI has inventoried and it seems they have renamed some things, and put a cross-reference to the original names in parentheses to the side. In that list, they show item K-1 as KC's DNA,(Items K-6 and K-7) and NE2 DNA Parentage Report,(Item K-1).

K-6 and K-7 were originally listed as the buccal swabs from KC.

I am not sure why the inventory would rename them but IMO that is what they have done. Most items appear to me to have retained the original item names, but some were changed.

 

[capps]

IIRC, that's what Tony wondered. To try to mask the smell?

Thanks CarrieBean. You would think that would be something the LE would ask when questioning her. I can't imagine any logical answer KC would have for that.

 

[RR0004]

Why would KC have Tones' garbage from his apt. in the trunk of her car?

There was mention of it...somewhere along this twisted way...I believe it was the roommate who said that Casey had voluntered to take the garbage out. I would assume that he thought she had thrown it away.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

What do you think an experienced crime scene investigator ment by: "I observed a black plastic bag in front of the skull"

That seems pretty clear to me. He did not see a laundry bag. I guess it must have been inside the plastic bag?

RK said the skull was not in the bag, so my thought is that when the animals scattered the remains...they drug the garbage bag out of the laundry bag to do so. I think the detective was describing the exact scene directly involving the skull. The laundry bag could have been to one side or the other, but not seen by him immediately as being associated.

 

[RR0004]

In the list of items sent to the FBI and the list of items received by the FBI, the Parentage Report is listed as item K-1. In the last page of the document it lists the items the FBI has inventoried and it seems they have renamed some things, and put a cross-reference to the original names in parentheses to the side. In that list, they show item K-1 as KC's DNA,(Items K-6 and K-7) and NE2 DNA Parentage Report,(Item K-1).

K-6 and K-7 were originally listed as the buccal swabs from KC.

I am not sure why the inventory would rename them but IMO that is what they have done. Most items appear to me to have retained the original item names, but some were changed.

Some items were changed after Dr. Lee examined the car as well. I tried really hard to follow what it was that Lee had found, but the small print was making my eyes go batty.