2009.06.19 FBI Decomposition Report

[Gma Kat]

To the bolded:

This boggles me, because she was smart (and I use that term very loosely) enough to get rid of everything else. She actually covered her tracks pretty well for a person who's never killed before... and she took such great care to never let anyone find out that Caylee's poor body was in her trunk, that she was 'missing' and she even made the chloroform with no one ever noticing.... yet she forgets to trash the trashbag with a dumpster right there?

I don't know what an opposing theory could be. I don't even think there is one... but it just seems odd does it not? :waitasec:

re BBM: Could she have intended to leave the trashbag back there thus allowing someone like say............CA to claim the smell was the old pizza?

 

[magic-cat]

I personally think that the adiopecere?(spelling likely incorrect) found on the papertowels and then on Caylee's bones tells us and the future jury that the scent in the car was a dead body and that dead body was Caylee. This is a byproduct of HUMAN DECOMP so the squirrel in the hood theory is shot right there. This is ironclad evidence of a HUMAN who was DEAD coming into contact with the papertowels inside of KC's trunk...pretty hard to say Oh it could have been an animal decomposing when that is a byproduct of human decomp.

 

[Jolynna]

re BBM: Could she have intended to leave the trashbag back there thus allowing someone like say............CA to claim the smell was the old pizza?

There were no meat products, including pizza, in the trashbag. The pizza in the trunk was a rumor given to reporters by Cindy. The trash contained pieces of cardboard from the pizza box.

Here are the E-mails between the Body Farm & OSCO confirming that no pizza was found in the trashbag:

-----Original Message-----
From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:30 PM
To: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Subject: **Exempt**

Doc,

I check the trash that was in the vehicle there was no meat products in the trash. There were pieces of a pizza box and other food containers. I will be emailing you a picture of the items first thing tomorrow.

ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
OCSO/Forensics Unit

-----Original Message-----
From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:33 PM
To: Vincent, Michael
Subject: RE: **Exempt**

Mike, not sure how I got that there was a pizza in the trunk – sorry about that one, but can you send me an itemized list of stuff that was in the trunk at the time the car was searched? Also, were the maggots on the pizza box?? Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D.

-----Original Message-----
From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:40 PM
To: 'Vass, Arpad Alexander'
Subject: RE: **Exempt**

The pizza story came from the mother, who told reporters the smell was from pizza in the trunk. A local news station left a half of pizza in a trunk for seven days, there results were no smell, no maggots, just dried out pizza. I will send you the list along with the pictures.

ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
OCSO/Forensics Unit

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4081493&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2009.08.07 Emails between Oak Ridge and OCSO[/ame]
​

 

[ZsaZsa]

But, once again, Casey would have to admit that there had been a horrible accident and subsequent flip-out.
Ironically, since the COD can't be determined, this would be the most effective defense. Obviously the nanny story won't fly, hasn't flown since day 1. But if, (and I say if only because we don't know what the defense strategy is going to be) they try to go down the mental illness path, and say that Casey has blocked out the accidental death of her daughter in her mind, and created Zanny in her mind as a coping mechanism, and couldn't let go of it because her fragile psyche can't handle the "true" memory, then I'm afraid they might be able to pull it off.

The defense strategy- well, if what we have seen of Mr Baez Esq so far is any indication of his prowess in court, I would say that when he discloses it there will be a lot of smirking from the SA and the Public ( and the Jury).

 

[Brini]

To the bolded:

This boggles me, because she was smart (and I use that term very loosely) enough to get rid of everything else. She actually covered her tracks pretty well for a person who's never killed before... and she took such great care to never let anyone find out that Caylee's poor body was in her trunk, that she was 'missing' and she even made the chloroform with no one ever noticing.... yet she forgets to trash the trashbag with a dumpster right there?

I don't know what an opposing theory could be. I don't even think there is one... but it just seems odd does it not? :waitasec:

Not that odd. Remember, it's KC we're talking about, here. She has a gift for missing the obvious. I know of artichokes that could outthink her.

 

[Brini]

BBM

It doesn't seem odd to me. I think KC did a horrible job of covering her tracks.

Casey stuffed every receipt for every purchase she made over the 31 days into her purse. That includes the receipts listing merchandise purchased with checks stolen from Amy. She used her phone every 5 minutes so she'd ping and leave a trail everywhere she went. She posed for pictures when she was supposed to be "searching for Caylee" and even posted the pictures online. She posted messages on social sites.

KC ran out of gas, didn't bother to pick up her car that smelled like decomposition for 3 days, left a resume with Amy's phone number in her car and hadn't come up with something better to say when confronted by Cindy than "Casey is sleeping at the nanny's". Casey took Amy's checks, signed her own name to one of the checks and wasted many of the checks on stuff like bras and beer. She left Caylee close to her parent's house a whole 20-30 feet off of the road just going far enough to get past the mowed grass.

Nobody was worried about Caylee not being around except for Cindy and George. It isn't rocket science to hide what nobody is looking for. Even then, KC managed to get Cindy, the mother bear who now says KC is the greatest thing since sliced bacon, riled up enough to call 911.

KC was astoundingly lazy. About everything. To me, not throwing away trash is the least of KC's bad planning skills.

JMO

Yep! KC couldn't plan a trip to the bathroom.

 

[Brini]

But that would be KC's coping mechinism, how would that explain the Zanny Nanny that CA and GA knew of a year prior? This would mean, KC's coping mechinism kicked in a year prior to the "accident". I don't think that will fly either....the SA will tear that theory to shreds. Sorry JMO.

And, I hate to see psychologists rolling on the floor, holding their sides, and wetting their pants. But, that's what would happen.

 

[Jolynna]

Not to venture too far OT to the FBI report...

Thinking the combination of (a) the high level of chloroform from the decomposition, and (b) the range of ADD now given may allow that the body was perhaps bagged immediately and the chloroform was sufficient enough to weaken the plastic to the point it breached & leaked sometime during the period the body was in the trunk incl. up to the time of disposal.

This scenario would suggest taping as less likely to be a post-mortem event :cry: IOW...no need to stem decomp if Casey thought it was already contained in the plastic bags. It would also be consistent w/ Casey handling the body less vs. more post-mortem.

BBM

I think you have it right. A low oxygen environment is necessary to adipocere formation.

The formation of adipocere is a process occurring under virtually anaerobic conditions in which human fat is converted into a complex of saturated fatty acids
http://www.springerlink.com/content/e276712698462661/
​

 

[TallyHo]

There were no meat products, including pizza, in the trashbag that would have created an odor that would mask the smell of a dead body. The pizza in the trunk was something Cindy told reporters.

E-mails between the Body Farm & OSCO:

-----Original Message-----
From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:30 PM
To: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Subject: **Exempt**

Doc,

I check the trash that was in the vehicle there was no meat products in the trash. There were pieces of a pizza box and other food containers. I will be emailing you a picture of the items first thing tomorrow.

ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
OCSO/Forensics Unit

-----Original Message-----
From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:33 PM
To: Vincent, Michael
Subject: RE: **Exempt**

Mike, not sure how I got that there was a pizza in the trunk – sorry about that one, but can you send me an itemized list of stuff that was in the trunk at the time the car was searched? Also, were the maggots on the pizza box?? Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D.

-----Original Message-----
From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:40 PM
To: 'Vass, Arpad Alexander'
Subject: RE: **Exempt**

The pizza story came from the mother, who told reporters the smell was from pizza in the trunk. A local news station left a half of pizza in a trunk for seven days, there results were no smell, no maggots, just dried out pizza. I will send you the list along with the pictures.

ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
OCSO/Forensics Unit

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2009.08.07 Emails between Oak Ridge and OCSO
​

Jolynna - I absolutely agree that there is no way a rotting pizza could ever be mistaken for the smell of decomp. I have never smelled human decomp, but I got a real dose of animal decomp this weekend when my beagle found and rolled in a deer carcass. It was mostly skeletonized but two days and four baths later I can still hardly get near my dog. If Casey thought that the trash bag would fool anyone (with the exception of her mother), she is not very bright.

 

[Brini]

Jolynna - I absolutely agree that there is no way a rotting pizza could ever be mistaken for the smell of decomp. I have never smelled human decomp, but I got a real dose of animal decomp this weekend when my beagle found and rolled in a deer carcass. It was mostly skeletonized but two days and four baths later I can still hardly get near my dog. If Casey thought that the trash bag would fool anyone (with the exception of her mother), she is not very bright.

Honey, you last five words say it ALL.

 

[cecybeans]

And, I hate to see psychologists rolling on the floor, holding their sides, and wetting their pants. But, that's what would happen.

You are too funny! I can see them all lined up and someone administering smelling salts trying to revive them after JB is telling the jury that a stripper pole is an "ugly coping" mechanism.

 

[lizzysf]

You are too funny! I can see them all lined up and someone administering smelling salts trying to revive them after JB is telling the jury that a stripper pole is an "ugly coping" mechanism.

Thanks for the laugh...loved it!!:laughbounce:

 

[Curious Me]

My computer is acting up so I have to quote it this way:

Jolynna said, "It doesn't seem odd to me. I think KC did a horrible job of covering her tracks."

I really enjoyed your post, Jolynna. I couldn't agree with you more that Casey's planning and cover up of her crime was pitiful. I wouldn't be surprised if they found a recent diary entry:

"Dear Diary, Guess what I did with Caylee today.....and now, I'm truly happy. Oh, and I got a new tattoo! Sincerely Yours, Casey"

 

[LambChop]

I personally think that the adiopecere?(spelling likely incorrect) found on the papertowels and then on Caylee's bones tells us and the future jury that the scent in the car was a dead body and that dead body was Caylee. This is a byproduct of HUMAN DECOMP so the squirrel in the hood theory is shot right there. This is ironclad evidence of a HUMAN who was DEAD coming into contact with the papertowels inside of KC's trunk...pretty hard to say Oh it could have been an animal decomposing when that is a byproduct of human decomp.

. Rescue dogs do amazing things, service dogs who help the handicapped do amazing things and dogs who are trained to search for decomp are also amazing. They do not bring extra baggage to the table so when they hit on a trunk that stinks of what has been described by experts as decomp then I feel it is fairly safe to believe there was a dead body in the car. Remember GA when he said in a slip, "The dead body that was in that car is not my granddaughter." Don't think the jury will have a problem with the trunk. JMO

 

[The World According]

. Rescue dogs do amazing things, service dogs who help the handicapped do amazing things and dogs who are trained to search for decomp are also amazing. They do not bring extra baggage to the table so when they hit on a trunk that stinks of what has been described by experts as decomp then I feel it is fairly safe to believe there was a dead body in the car. Remember GA when he said in a slip, "The dead body that was in that car is not my granddaughter." Don't think the jury will have a problem with the trunk. JMO

Even if, after protracted litigation ...the information from the Oakridge labs (body farm) cannot come in to evidence...there is still plenty of of other trunk evidence to carry the day. The state will have compelling experts to explain the smell the detectives recognized as decomposition is very, very different than rotten food, and the bugs that were there would not have been attracted to the food as they would the decomposition. The defense will be asking the jury to check its common sense at the door, and Joy and Old Town's Finest will not be on that jury.

 

[LambChop]

Even if, after protracted litigation ...the information from the Oakridge labs (body farm) cannot come in to evidence...there is still plenty of of other trunk evidence to carry the day. The state will have compelling experts to explain the smell the detectives recognized as decomposition is very, very different than rotten food, and the bugs that were there would not have been attracted to the food as they would the decomposition. The defense will be asking the jury to check its common sense at the door, and Joy and Old Town's Finest will not be on that jury.

I was wondering if the Oakridge Lab will come in anyway. They have to start somewhere. Maybe it will be introduced as a new procedure but backed up by the fact that the dogs hit, detectives familiar with the smell, GA and CA both with knowledge of the smell uttering that the trunk smelled like death. If the lab were the only evidence I could see them excluding it, BUT it isn't so maybe they will let it in because it backs up the other evidence. Let's hope. JMO

 

[The World According]

If the trial is a year or two away, by that time the Oakridge lab air sample reports may well be accepted in other trials and thus this will not be the very first time this evidence was used so they cannot claim it as new or junk science. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUCDq4OmoW4[/ame]

 

[shufly]

Even if, after protracted litigation ...the information from the Oakridge labs (body farm) cannot come in to evidence...there is still plenty of of other trunk evidence to carry the day. The state will have compelling experts to explain the smell the detectives recognized as decomposition is very, very different than rotten food, and the bugs that were there would not have been attracted to the food as they would the decomposition. The defense will be asking the jury to check its common sense at the door, and Joy and Old Town's Finest will not be on that jury.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you brought up the fact about the bugs. This is one thing that has bothered me since the beginning of this case. Most everybody either has or knows somebody who has left food in their car. I'm guilty of going to a drive thru, eating in a hurry, and leaving the food I didn't finish in my car. Then I get home and forget to take it out. Back in my teens, this happened regularly and the food would stay in my car until whenever. However, NEVER EVER at anytime did I ever see bugs in my car from the food. And that is with the food in the part of the car that I'm in where bugs would actually have access to it from open doors and windows. Not in a sealed trunk. There is no way anybody in their right mind can believe the bugs in that trunk were due to the garbage. Like you said, common sense.

 

[Bee Charmer]

Yep! KC couldn't plan a trip to the bathroom.

As evidenced by her "weeing" in that parking lot, by the side of a car. Classy kc.........:innocent:

 

[Nore]

Even if, after protracted litigation ...the information from the Oakridge labs (body farm) cannot come in to evidence...there is still plenty of of other trunk evidence to carry the day. The state will have compelling experts to explain the smell the detectives recognized as decomposition is very, very different than rotten food, and the bugs that were there would not have been attracted to the food as they would the decomposition. The defense will be asking the jury to check its common sense at the door, and Joy and Old Town's Finest will not be on that jury.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you brought up the fact about the bugs. This is one thing that has bothered me since the beginning of this case. Most everybody either has or knows somebody who has left food in their car. I'm guilty of going to a drive thru, eating in a hurry, and leaving the food I didn't finish in my car. Then I get home and forget to take it out. Back in my teens, this happened regularly and the food would stay in my car until whenever. However, NEVER EVER at anytime did I ever see bugs in my car from the food. And that is with the food in the part of the car that I'm in where bugs would actually have access to it from open doors and windows. Not in a sealed trunk. There is no way anybody in their right mind can believe the bugs in that trunk were due to the garbage. Like you said, common sense.

-------------------------------------------
I'd like to mention years ago I was coming home late at night. I hit a skunk.
The car smelled so bad,being late at night I couldnt get it washed.I parked it on the street,knew if I brought it in the yard I'd smell it in the house.I had it washed the next day,odor was completely gone.Thats not so with human decomp.