2009.06.19 FBI Decomposition Report

[3doglady]

I hope LE shrink wrapped that car so the jury can scratch and sniff.

 

[The World According]

*snipped*

My turn to play Captain Obvious today, OK?

...and in the bag from Tony's apartment meaning it was post-disposal...and close to 6/27. IMHO when Casey texted Amy, "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." @ 11:34AM 6/27...4mins after leaving G&C's and ~13mins before running outta gas @ Amscot it was because she'd just done the paper-towel cleaning @ G&C's...couldn't toss the decomp-soaked-towels out @ G&C's house. That she took a trash bag from Tony's (not a new one from G&C's) suggests she had the cleaning in mind when she left Tony's...perhaps even having @ it in Tony's parking lot...although less likely, 'cause methinks she woulda tossed it in the dumpster as she existed the parking lot there.

Just a shame she forgot to get rid of it in the dumpster that was 4 feet away when she ran outta gas :doh:

whoaaaaah

 

[The World According]

FBI Decomposition Report

Two bombshells for me:

• The chloroform in the car was unusually high - about one million times higher than a normal decomposing body at that stage.

• The paper towels found in the garbage bag removed from the trunk had evidence of decomposition on them, indicating KC attempted to clean the mess, and threw the used towels into the bag from Tony's apartment.

When the jury hears this I wonder if Casey will cry into her lawyer's shoulder.

 

[Harmony 2]

When the jury hears this I wonder if Casey will cry into her lawyer's shoulder.

She'll probably have a hard time shwallowing and ask AL to make the SA stop.

 

[ynotdivein]

Bumping for question--how would running AC affect formation and odor of adipocere in trunk?

 

[wildchild1961]

Bumping for question--how would running AC affect formation and odor of adipocere in trunk?

coooool thank you for finding this ynot

I'm not much of a scientist.. i just have this visual of decomp goo forming/purging at night..and then cold AC hardening a thin layer of it to a grave wax layer during times when AC was kicking out strong... then the process repeating itself over and over for a few days.

As far as cold air.. I know my daughter is fanatical about keeping AC on in the summer even when the temp isn't that bad outside. because she says she can smell cat and dog smells (we have plenty of both) much more strongly when its warm and breezy and we have the windows open instead of AC on. I have noticed she is correct in that.. I just dont admit it to her.. cuz I prefer breezes to AC.. lolol

wild

 

[tiff07]

The high level of Chloroform in the trunk bothers me. Chloroform is apparently used for THC extraction from marijuana and if im interpreting the info correctly a lot of gas is required for the process too. Casey always chasing gas cans bothers me too. All I can find anywhere in documents is that Casey dated a couple of guys who smoked and wasn't much of a smoker herself. It would seem fairly hardcore to me to think a part time smoker like Casey may have been knowledgeable enough to extract THC and to what end? Anyone have a theory supporting that the chloroform may have been for that purpose or that can explain why such large amounts would possibly pertain to Caylee please?

 

[ynotdivein]

coooool thank you for finding this ynot

I'm not much of a scientist.. i just have this visual of decomp goo forming/purging at night..and then cold AC hardening a thin layer of it to a grave wax layer during times when AC was kicking out strong... then the process repeating itself over and over for a few days.

wild

RSBM... I have no scientific knowledge of this but I do think "grave wax" is "grave wax" no matter whether it's chilly or hot. The chemical components/identifiers are the same right?

 

[wildchild1961]

RSBM... I have no scientific knowledge of this but I do think "grave wax" is "grave wax" no matter whether it's chilly or hot. The chemical components/identifiers are the same right?

ynot.. I found this on wikipedia when checking "adipocere formation" (although I take that source with a very large grain of salt)

Formation

The transformation of fats into adipocere occurs best in the absence of oxygen in a cold and humid environment, such as in wet ground or mud at the bottom of a lake or a sealed casket, and it can occur with both embalmed and untreated bodies. Adipocere formation begins within a month of death, and in the absence of air it can persist for centuries.[3] An exposed, infested body or a body in a warm environment is unlikely to form deposits of adipocere

this might explain though.. why adipocere was found on the paper towels in the trunk.. but not the actual body.

I keep trying to research it more.. but unfortunately.. while I have had a lot of experience with dead bodies of animals.. my experience with humans is pretty much non existent, so the squeamishness is getting to me each time i try to read more on the topic. lol

wild

 

[Just Jayla]

Bumping for question--how would running AC affect formation and odor of adipocere in trunk?

I do know that AC works in part by "drying" the air (works great to defog windows even in winter)-So this drying process may have some effect? Not sure.

 

[ynotdivein]

I do know that AC works in part by "drying" the air (works great to defog windows even in winter)-So this drying process may have some effect? Not sure.

I guess question one would have to be, was the Sunfire's AC actually working at the time of the alleged events?

Question two: for how many days did KC run said AC while she was driving the "dead squirrel" car hither and yon between last seeing Caylee and the finding of said car in tow lot?

Question three: What is the genus and species of the type of grass at which defense must be grasping if they plan to suggest in open court that air conditioning could significantly alter the chemical signature of a human decompositional event that took place in the trunk of a Pontiac Sunfire, which make/model does not seem to include AC vents for the trunk area?

:waitasec:

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Dumb question - but where were the paper towels found? the ones w/ decomp on them?

 

[wildchild1961]

I do know that AC works in part by "drying" the air (works great to defog windows even in winter)-So this drying process may have some effect? Not sure.

excellent point Jayla!

wild

 

[wildchild1961]

Dumb question - but where were the paper towels found? the ones w/ decomp on them?

Horace... check post #303 on this thread

wild

 

[RR0004]

I guess question one would have to be, was the Sunfire's AC actually working at the time of the alleged events?

Question two: for how many days did KC run said AC while she was driving the "dead squirrel" car hither and yon between last seeing Caylee and the finding of said car in tow lot?

Question three: What is the genus and species of the type of grass at which defense must be grasping if they plan to suggest in open court that air conditioning could significantly alter the chemical signature of a human decompositional event that took place in the trunk of a Pontiac Sunfire, which make/model does not seem to include AC vents for the trunk area?

:waitasec:

Does AC even hit the trunk?

 

[RR0004]

Dumb question - but where were the paper towels found? the ones w/ decomp on them?

IIRC...the bag.

 

[wildchild1961]

Does AC even hit the trunk?

Why wouldnt it? Trunks aren't generally that airtight. I know with my older escort I could reach my hand into the trunk from my back seat. My daughter's impala is made so you can flip the seats down from the inside so it is definitely not airtight either. I know when I have driven around for a couple hours shopping.. I pull my bags out of the trunk of the car and they are cool to the touch. Casey had a small Sunfire.. not a big SUV or something. I would think the cool air could easily permeate the trunk even after being shut off. She was on the road during the days for long periods. That car would have been heating up after she came to rest for a while.. then humid as heck at night.. cooling off during the days again. Over and over until it was dumped.

Would be curious if any car people know if a trunk is airtight or not. I am so NOT an expert on this.. I just thought it was an interesting idea to toss out there and see what you guys came up with. I have been completely impressed with this group of folks for months know. I have been an avid reader here for almost a year.. and finally took the plunge and signed up. lolol

wild

 

[ynotdivein]

OK, and wildchild maybe you can help me out here but... the essential question is:

Assuming that KC's car had functioning air conditioning, and

assuming that Caylee's body spent some time in the trunk of said car (probably inside trash bags at the least, if not trash bags inside a canvas laundry bag),

would use of AC in the daytime while Caylee's body was inside the trunk (non-air-conditioned to my understanding) change the forensic signature and would the adipocere deposits found in/on items from the trunk be affected by use of AC when there are no AC vents in the trunk itself?

 

[RR0004]

OK, and wildchild maybe you can help me out here but... the essential question is:

Assuming that KC's car had functioning air conditioning, and

assuming that Caylee's body spent some time in the trunk of said car (probably inside trash bags at the least, if not trash bags inside a canvas laundry bag),

would use of AC in the daytime while Caylee's body was inside the trunk (non-air-conditioned to my understanding) change the forensic signature and would the adipocere deposits found in/on items from the trunk be affected by use of AC when there are no AC vents in the trunk itself?

...you'll have to factor in the temperature outside as well. In Florida heat, no amount of a/c in a car sitting out in the sun will IMO cool down a trunk all that much.

 

[wildchild1961]

OK, and wildchild maybe you can help me out here but... the essential question is:

Assuming that KC's car had functioning air conditioning, and

assuming that Caylee's body spent some time in the trunk of said car (probably inside trash bags at the least, if not trash bags inside a canvas laundry bag),

would use of AC in the daytime while Caylee's body was inside the trunk (non-air-conditioned to my understanding) change the forensic signature and would the adipocere deposits found in/on items from the trunk be affected by use of AC when there are no AC vents in the trunk itself?

I don't know the answers to most of this.. (LOLOL are there any trunk experts on here??????? I just did a quick google on airtight trunks and I am hesitant to link the sites I read because I couldn't find one that had any real expert opinions.. (but again.. it was a quick search (am at work and still have alot of data entry to do.. lol) but from what I am reading.. there is no such thing as an airtight trunk. The one site speaks of doing your own experiment by leaving a cup of gasoline in the trunk (when NOT moving) and then open car a few hours later and see how strongly it smells inside the car. So IMO it would be perfectly feasible to think that after a few hours of running around in her car.. when she stopped for the day.. the cold air would seep into the trunk. So I would think that it makes perfect sense for that cold air to somehow affect the forensic signature of any decomp found.

How much? Dunno.

Was it enough to assist or contribute to forming adipocere? Dunno.

those are some of the questions I have as well.

wild