2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

[wenwe4]

Woo Hooo to the best sleuthing ever! You all ROCK!

Continuing with this theory - if the tape pieces (or at least one piece) was placed somewhere else before being placed on Caylee (due to the logos being reversed)- there should fiber evidence that leaves a crumb trail . . . . . . . ok before I go ot

I drew out the measurements of all 4 pieces of tape on paper using a 2" width for the tape. (It occurred to me how sad that was that within the space of a regular sheet of paper 8 1/2" x 11 restrained and/or killed a child). Sorry . . . . . but what I found when I pulled out my roll of duct tape - scotch brand - the tape was only 1 7/8" width. Not sure if this would make any difference in the placement of the tape and/or overlapping areas - but within such a small space (Caylee's face) I would think the total number of 1/8" on all of them would shift just a bit. Of course, I am assuming the Henkle tape is the same size as the scotch brand. anyone else have their duct tape roll and a measure at the handy? just wondering if this is common for duct tape manufacturers

 

[wenwe4]

My little one's wrist measurements, palm to palm around the wrists, is 7 inches. Hope this helps. She is 3yr 4mo old.

Please - Give her a hug from all of us! And thank you kindly!

 

[Swancat63]

My "Dollar General" store duct tape is 2in., but my "Duck" brand duct tape is 1 7/8in.

 

[Frigga]

I have triplet 2.5 yo neighbors (1 girl and 2 boys) I was about ready to go knock on their door when I got in to this thread, but thought_ how will I explain it to their Mom?!!! I'm glad I didn't have to.

Their Mom knows I am on this blog but we don't discuss the details of the case- it is much too painful for her to contemplate. The triplets were early and had a rough go of it in the beginning so it would break her heart to even THINK a mother capable of this!

 

[beach]

My "Dollar General" store duct tape is 2in., but my "Duck" brand duct tape is 1 7/8in.

I could swear I saw where AZ posted that she determined the same 1 7/8" width measurement in re. the Henkel. I haven't found that post confirming that yet, though.

 

[Paintr]

I have triplet 2.5 yo neighbors (1 girl and 2 boys) I was about ready to go knock on their door when I got in to this thread, but thought_ how will I explain it to their Mom?!!! I'm glad I didn't have to.

Their Mom knows I am on this blog but we don't discuss the details of the case- it is much too painful for her to contemplate. The triplets were early and had a rough go of it in the beginning so it would break her heart to even THINK a mother capable of this!

I would have loved to hear that conversation, Frigga. LOL!

 

[beach]

I could swear I saw where AZ posted that she determined the same 1 7/8" width measurement in re. the Henkel. I haven't found that post confirming that yet, though.

Sorry for quoting myself, but upon second thought, I'm not sure it was AZ who discovered and posted this info. Still looking, but not even positive it was even posted in this thread. :waitasec:

 

[beach]

Found this posted by Bond in post #377 on page 16 of this thread -

--BBM & heavily snipped for emphasis on tape width specs

From the manufacturer’s specs cited earlier in the thread I used a tape width of 1.88”.

 

[wenwe4]

Found this posted by Bond in post #377 on page 16 of this thread -

--BBM & heavily snipped for emphasis on tape width specs

Wow - so BJB already factored this into all of these graphics? How cool is that? -I stand even more impressed at the tenacity and attention to detail and accuracy in these pages!

 

[AZlawyer]

Woo Hooo to the best sleuthing ever! You all ROCK!

Continuing with this theory - if the tape pieces (or at least one piece) was placed somewhere else before being placed on Caylee (due to the logos being reversed)- there should fiber evidence that leaves a crumb trail . . . . . . . ok before I go ot

I drew out the measurements of all 4 pieces of tape on paper using a 2" width for the tape. (It occurred to me how sad that was that within the space of a regular sheet of paper 8 1/2" x 11 restrained and/or killed a child). Sorry . . . . . but what I found when I pulled out my roll of duct tape - scotch brand - the tape was only 1 7/8" width. Not sure if this would make any difference in the placement of the tape and/or overlapping areas - but within such a small space (Caylee's face) I would think the total number of 1/8" on all of them would shift just a bit. Of course, I am assuming the Henkle tape is the same size as the scotch brand. anyone else have their duct tape roll and a measure at the handy? just wondering if this is common for duct tape manufacturers

My "Dollar General" store duct tape is 2in., but my "Duck" brand duct tape is 1 7/8in.

I could swear I saw where AZ posted that she determined the same 1 7/8" width measurement in re. the Henkel. I haven't found that post confirming that yet, though.

I used the manufacturer's reported width for my pictures. 1.8-something inches.

 

[wenwe4]

AZ Thank You! The 1.88" quoted by the manufacturer correlates to the 1 7/8". Any ideas on what the duct tape might have been stuck to prior to being put into place?

 

[TallyHo]

AZ Thank You! The 1.88" quoted by the manufacturer correlates to the 1 7/8". Any ideas on what the duct tape might have been stuck to prior to being put into place?

What if she stuck the tape pieces on the car seat before applying them? I wonder if that is a possible source of the fibers found on the tape, if any of it had happened to touch the fabric covering the seat's cushion. Do we know for sure what the covering of the actual seat was made out of?

ETA - just went back and looked at the old thread about the car seat and it is listed as a black, gray, and red "Eddie Bauer" car seat. I'm not sure if that refers specifically to the fabric portion or the plastic parts as well. The fibers on the tape were black, blue, off white, and some red, if I remember correctly. Could the "gray" color of the seat have been a "heathered" type combination of those colors??

 

[beach]

What if she stuck the tape pieces on the car seat before applying them? I wonder if that is a possible source of the fibers found on the tape, if any of it had happened to touch the fabric covering the seat's cushion. Do we know for sure what the covering of the actual seat was made out of?

ETA - just went back and looked at the old thread about the car seat and it is listed as a black, gray, and red "Eddie Bauer" car seat. I'm not sure if that refers specifically to the fabric portion or the plastic parts as well. The fibers on the tape were black, blue, off white, and some red, if I remember correctly. Could the "gray" color of the seat have been a "heathered" type combination of those colors??

Hey TallyHo!

Some of the fibers you mention were found on Q104, the piece found away from the body and in the vicinity of the 'Big Trouble...' t-shirt. (Also the piece some of us theorize may have been used to bind her hands/wrists). However, the ONLY 2 fibers found on the 3 pieces the ME removed from Caylee's skull were black wool and blue cotton.

Check out the spec post #688 on the previous page. It also has a link to the Fiber Analysis thread. The black wool is very curious because it is the only wool mentioned anywhere that I have been able to discover....

 

[Harmony 2]

I have always thought that Q104 was used to restrain the hands but the details involving it are perplexing. The vagueness of the 'fringe hair' definitions has always thrown me for a loop.


What bones were found in the vicinity of Q104? It is puzzling because only one end looks chewed. I would think if it overlapped around the wrist that both ends would be chewed...

 

[beach]

I have always thought that Q104 was used to restrain the hands but the details involving it are perplexing. The vagueness of the 'fringe hair' definitions has always thrown me for a loop.


What bones were found in the vicinity of Q104? It is puzzling because only one end looks chewed. I would think if it overlapped around the wrist that both ends would be chewed...

I dunno about the bones found nearby....that would be interesting to sleuth. I'm pretty sure that several of the bones that were never found were the tips of the fingers. I have always written off the poor condition of Q104 (the chewed appearance) to scavenger animal activity.

In re. the fringe hairs - For me, the FBI definition and the conditions make that SO subjective. We are talking about fringe hairs from a 2 3/4 yr. old child that were stuck to duct tape and layed out in the hot FL swampy elements for 6 months. All I feel positive about, is it wasn't head hair.

 

[sarah7855]

What if she stuck the tape pieces on the car seat before applying them? I wonder if that is a possible source of the fibers found on the tape, if any of it had happened to touch the fabric covering the seat's cushion. Do we know for sure what the covering of the actual seat was made out of?

ETA - just went back and looked at the old thread about the car seat and it is listed as a black, gray, and red "Eddie Bauer" car seat. I'm not sure if that refers specifically to the fabric portion or the plastic parts as well. The fibers on the tape were black, blue, off white, and some red, if I remember correctly. Could the "gray" color of the seat have been a "heathered" type combination of those colors??

I've been wondering about the carseat myself. First, here's a couple of pics of the carseat:





Also, here is a slideshow of carseat images from WFTV.

I've been trying to find what types of materials were used to make the carseat without much luck. My thought is that Q104 (see, I promise I'm trying to keep this on topic! :angel was used to bind Caylee's hands, and that there was a bit of the sticky portion of the tape exposed and some of the carseat fibers became stuck to it while she moved her bound hands around in the carseat. Only problem is that I can't imagine black wool being used in a child's car seat, too hot and itchy. So...I'm back to the source of the fibers being the plaid blanket. I'm thinking she covered Caylee up with this blanket at some point, and the exposed areas of Q104 picked up the fibers.

On another note regarding the car seat and the tape, I've been mulling over this post for a couple of days (RSBM):

Going along with BondJamesBond's theory of Caylee's head tilting to the right, and Caylee possibly sitting in her carseat when the tape was applied, because the tape slants to the right - I can envision KC reaching in and putting the tape over her face, as Caylee sat slumped in her carseat, so KC would not have to look at Caylee's features, especially her eyes, and her mouth.
BJB says that Q64 was applied first - and if contains the heart shaped residue ... then maybe KC placed the first piece of duct tape and the heart sticker on ... then thought about the other 3 pieces of duct tape after that? I think the end of Q64 would have been the nearest to the car door as KC leaned in, and may explain why the heart sticker was placed on that end of the duct tape??

I've been wondering why Casey would have applied the heart sticker to an odd side of what would be the one of the innermost pieces of tape. That doesn't make sense to me. So when I read your post, it clicked in my mind. I'm wondering if initially, she applied one piece of tape, like you suggested, maybe to silence Caylee's cries after the big fight, or in an attempt to use the chloroform on her. She places the heart sticker on the tape. For whatever reason, she decides to take it further and applies the other two strips of tape to her face and then Q104 around her hands. I also agree with ThinkTank in that I think the slant of the tape is indicative of Caylee being in her carseat or another similar position; the angle of the tape is very telling, IMO.

I've read this thread twice now, I think I'm going to go back and read it again. I usually just read the amazing work done here (in complete awe), but the duct tape is something that I am particularly horrified by and hope that the SA really lays it all out on the table for the world to see at trial. If the awesome sleuths here have done all the great work they've done with the limited information available, hopefully the state is preparing something really powerful behind the scenes that will show the world just how horrific Caylee's last moments were :cry: Mitigate all you want, defense team. When the jury sees the actual photos of Caylee's skull plastered with duct tape, I think that will be a pivotal moment in the trial.

 

[IRule254]

RSBBM. AZ I couldn't agree more--while I am a total layperson in the nefarious uses of duct tape it just doesn't make sense to tape the mouth last. (Neither "normal" nor "KC" sense in fact. It isn't practical if the victim is alive and you want to prevent noise; if the victim is asleep or your intent is to suffocate why start elsewhere than mouth/nasal cavities?)

Respectfully snipped.

Maybe she was asleep and thought that the application of the tape to the mouth/nose area might immediately wake the child up and cause them to open their eyes.

Because you couldn't stand to look at their eyes even for even one second.

Because you are killing your own child and it would be less traumatic for you at the moment (you being KC) if you couldn't see your victim staring at you.

The same reason that murderer will order victims to their knees and turn them facing the other direction.

Ugh , this is so revolting to think about.

I recently had a near-death experience with my little girl who is 3 1/2. She was unconscious for a couple of minutes and her eyes rolled all of the way back. Thinking back to the incident now, that was probably the most traumatic part for me- first the eyes being "gone" and then her eyes staring at me with such fright as she regained consciousness. Both parts were so terrible.


I can absolutely see Casey being freaked put and not being able to look at the eyes. Poor Caylee.

 

[chefmom]

Hey TallyHo!

Some of the fibers you mention were found on Q104, the piece found away from the body and in the vicinity of the 'Big Trouble...' t-shirt. (Also the piece some of us theorize may have been used to bind her hands/wrists). However, the ONLY 2 fibers found on the 3 pieces the ME removed from Caylee's skull were black wool and blue cotton.

Check out the spec post #688 on the previous page. It also has a link to the Fiber Analysis thread. The black wool is very curious because it is the only wool mentioned anywhere that I have been able to discover....

BBM

Do we know anything about the rug, from the back porch I think, that was mentioned in docs? Rugs are often made of wool. I'm not good at using the search functions on here but I will try to see if I can find anything about it.

 

[chefmom]

Respectfully snipped.

Maybe she was asleep and thought that the application of the tape to the mouth/nose area might immediately wake the child up and cause them to open their eyes.

Because you couldn't stand to look at their eyes even for even one second.

Because you are killing your own child and it would be less traumatic for you at the moment (you being KC) if you couldn't see your victim staring at you.

The same reason that murderer will order victims to their knees and turn them facing the other direction.

Ugh , this is so revolting to think about.

I recently had a near-death experience with my little girl who is 3 1/2. She was unconscious for a couple of minutes and her eyes rolled all of the way back. Thinking back to the incident now, that was probably the most traumatic part for me- first the eyes being "gone" and then her eyes staring at me with such fright as she regained consciousness. Both parts were so terrible.


I can absolutely see Casey being freaked put and not being able to look at the eyes. Poor Caylee.

O/T, but hugs to you and your little one! That must have been a horrifying experience! Hope everything is better!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I apologise in advance for being graphic here but this is my duct tape theory.

I always thought that the duct tape was attached post mortem to stop the body from 'leaking' from the facial orifices. So in my mind Casey backs her car into the garage, checks on the state of the body in the trunk, notices the leaking and decides she needs to seal it. So she grabs some duct tape, tears off a strip, and covers the mouth. She then decides to 'seal it with a kiss' and goes inside and gets one of her little heart shaped stickers and places it over the mouth. She does this in her mind to say 'Bye sweetie I love you'. UGH!!

Then, after admiring her work for a sec she decides to cover the eyes because they're open and its not such a cute image, so she tears off a few more strips, then adds more tape to the face to really seal up the nose and mouth area.

Then she drives out again and off to find a place to leave the body.