2009.11.06 Forensic Entomology Report Released #2

[snow_walker]

The dog hits in the yard might have been caused by CA cleaning the trunk, then throwing the water around the yard. Or perhaps by GA using the gas cans that had been in the trunk, putting them down here or there around the yard... or it could be that KC was moving the body around the yard shortly after Caylee died.. looking for a place to hide her body. (If she did hide her body in the yard, I think she hid it in the pool, under or behind the ladder)

We just don't have enough information to put the whole scene together yet. But the entomology evidence does show that the body was in an advanced stage of decompositon before it was left in the woods. I am not so sure that it shows that the body could not have been put there later than June 27th though.. as I say it may have been kept in the pool (or even the freezer) for awhile, and that would slow down decomp.

 

[Tulessa]

I know this is OT and I apologixe in advance but, On item q242 (which is the knife) It states that "evidence generated". I'm just wondering if they found a fingerprint? I know about the sticky substance but somehow, I don't think they are referring to that.

 

[Tulessa]

Oops the link.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/1106/21540469.pdf

 

[Tuffy]

wow. it is astounding that the decomp fluid alone remaining in the car trunk could produce such a horrid smell while in the impound lot. ga must have immediately known what happened with his le background.

as an aside, after a per guinea pig died, we buried him about 2 feet down wrapped in a towel in a box. it was spring time and over the next couple of weeks, we could hardly go outside because the smell was so horrific....and that's a teeny animal

In the report they state that the smell of decomp in the car was very strong 6 months later!

 

[cecybeans]

I know this is OT and I apologixe in advance but, On item q242 (which is the knife) It states that "evidence generated". I'm just wondering if they found a fingerprint? I know about the sticky substance but somehow, I don't think they are referring to that.

If that is the type of knife that was in KC's car, didn't CA remove it and throw it into the dishwasher immediately? Unless LE took the set when the conducted the search warrant in Dec, and tested every knife, and there was duct tape residue on one of them that did not come off in the dishwasher, I'm not sure what that means.

One thing is for sure, when CA saw her good steak knife in the car, she took that out immediately and cleaned it right quick. Good thing they brought that crime-scene-on-wheels home so they could cherry pick over what evidence to clean first.

 

[Tulessa]

If that is the type of knife that was in KC's car, didn't CA remove it and throw it into the dishwasher immediately? Unless LE took the set when the conducted the search warrant in Dec, and tested every knife, and there was duct tape residue on one of them that did not come off in the dishwasher, I'm not sure what that means.

One thing is for sure, when CA saw her good steak knife in the car, she took that out immediately and cleaned it right quick. Good thing they brought that crime-scene-on-wheels home so they could cherry pick over what evidence to clean first.

Wasn't this knife confiscated from the car? Someone correct me if I am wrong.......

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

In my opinion, I think LE has a theory that Caylee, at one point in the timeline was indeed in the trunk. The bug report guy was asked by LE to prove this is a possiblity. It does look like this is a possibility based on the new docs. He was not asked if there was any other possiblities that could result from his findings. The defense will most certainly present any other possibilities if they exist.

 

[Jolynna]

The dog hits in the yard might have been caused by CA cleaning the trunk, then throwing the water around the yard. Or perhaps by GA using the gas cans that had been in the trunk, putting them down here or there around the yard... or it could be that KC was moving the body around the yard shortly after Caylee died.. looking for a place to hide her body. (If she did hide her body in the yard, I think she hid it in the pool, under or behind the ladder)

We just don't have enough information to put the whole scene together yet. But the entomology evidence does show that the body was in an advanced stage of decompositon before it was left in the woods. I am not so sure that it shows that the body could not have been put there later than June 27th though.. as I say it may have been kept in the pool (or even the freezer) for awhile, and that would slow down decomp.

BBM

We do have enough to put the scene together.There will be no questions about how bugs clear up the timeline and what was done with Caylee's body when Haskell is finished testifying.

Caylee going into a freezer or Caylee immediately being underwater after death is inconsistent with the evidence. Coffin flies couldn't get to Caylee's body and leave generations of cases and parts of themselves behind if Caylee was in a freezer or underwater. The generations of the thriving "coffin fly" colony they found in the trunk, on the paper towels, at suburban on during Caylee's autopsy, points to Caylee's body being in the trunk, bloating and liquifying fast right after death. Which is what happens when a body is wrapped in plastic and in an airtight, hot, moist environment (a trashbag in a car trunk in Florida in the summer).

Decomposition wasn't slowed down. Caylee very quickly bloated, jelled and liquified. If you google Brookey West you can read how that same environment did the same kind of thing to West's mother. (I've linked to Haskell's involvement in the West case many times on WS.) Mark Furhman writes about how it happened to Caylee in his book, The Murder Business.

If Caylee had been in a freezer before she was finally disposed of on Suburban, a lot more blow flies would have been attracted to her body on Suburban because the body would have been fresh. Instead coffin flies swarmed because they prefer putrefied and goopier remains. (I'm sorry there is no nice way to put it.)_

According to the report, Haskell says the insect remains and insect cases they did find at the Suburban site and on Caylee during the autopsy is consistent with Caylee being left at Suburban from June to early July and sometime after that being submerged by the rainy season.

jmo

 

[JustJax]

Defense team needs to start getting serious. Instead of filing these nonsensicle, frivilous motions they need to sit down with KC and tell her, the odds are stacked against you. We think it would be in your best interest to plea guilty or take an Alford plea so you can avoid the DP...

An alford plea may suit KC better for she will never admit to what she's done.



If KC does take an alford plea, this will give CA the ammuniton for that "martyr" syndome...she will yell from the highest tower that this plea enforces the fact that KC is innocent but in order to get out of a DP sentence, she had to do this...Yeah right! :waitasec:

After this latest doc-dump, I highly doubt that the State will ever let this case plea out. The evidence is damning and IMO she will be convicted hands down. They will leave it to the jury to decide whether she gets death or spends the rest of her not-so-beautiful life in prison.

 

[MissJames]

In my opinion, I think LE has a theory that Caylee, at one point in the timeline was indeed in the trunk. The bug report guy was asked by LE to prove this is a possiblity. It does look like this is a possibility based on the new docs. He was not asked if there was any other possiblities that could result from his findings. The defense will most certainly present any other possibilities if they exist.

The defense can bring up as many other possibilities as they want to.Fact is,Caylee was last reportedly seen alive getting into that car.She was never seen by anyone other than KC again.Possibly the computer store guy saw them later that day,but Caylee was still with KC .There is no way to seperate Caylee and that car. Toss in the 31 days and abandoning the car and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put Caylee as the source of decomp in the trunk of her mothers car.

 

[Friday]

I especially liked the "maybe somebody put a body in the car when it was in the towyard!" (or something to that effect)

The problem with the Defense selling that theory is that "somebody" would have needed to come along later, remove the corpse, and then politely clean and sanitize KC's trunk. LOL

 

[Isabelle]

Has there been any forensics released that would give info on whether there was decompositional fluids on the carpet in the trunk?

 

[Friday]

M. MILLER SAYS, HE TRIED TALKING TO HER, FOUR DAYS, FOR HOURS AND HOURS AND SHE WALKS AROUND THE HOUSE HAPPY LIKE SHE IS ON HER WAY TO CHEER LEADING PRACTICE, IN TWELVE HOURS AND FOUR DAYS, NOT ONCE DID SHE UTTER THE NAME CAYLEE! Baez fought really hard to have Mr. miller be deemed a material witness and now he is going to regret what he asked for because I don't think the jury is going to find much of what Tim reveals as helpful to little miss Casey. PS. he is very clear here, TES did not search this area , the conditions would not permit it. I honestly don't think her lawyers do confront her with things like this.

YouTube- Geraldo 12/13/08 Part 3

I'm sure her lawyers absolutely do not confront her. Remember, if she admits to them she's guilty, or tells them the truth, they can't fabricate a bunch of bogus explanations to sell to the jury. This seems to be the only ethical restriction imposed on Defense attorneys. Beyond that, they are free to do their maximum worst, including to innocent witnesses against their client.

 

[Jolynna]

Has there been any forensics released that would give info on whether there was decompositional fluids on the carpet in the trunk?

The Body Farm says there was. Dr. Haskell said in December when he examined the bug remains in the car trunk, the car still smelled. The formerly thriving colony of "coffin flies" lived on something.

There was nothing in the car trunk or in the trash to have drawn the coffin flies to the trunk in droves except for whatever stained the carpet, was smelling up the trunk and the adipocere substance wiped up on the napkins.

jmo

 

[Friday]

Defense team needs to start getting serious. Instead of filing these nonsensicle, frivilous motions they need to sit down with KC and tell her, the odds are stacked against you. We think it would be in your best interest to plea guilty or take an Alford plea so you can avoid the DP...

An alford plea may suit KC better for she will never admit to what she's done.



If KC does take an alford plea, this will give CA the ammuniton for that "martyr" syndome...she will yell from the highest tower that this plea enforces the fact that KC is innocent but in order to get out of a DP sentence, she had to do this...Yeah right! :waitasec:

I assume an Alford plea must be like a "No Contest/Nolo Contendere" plea? It will be interesting to see if the Defense ultimately puts this much importance on the Forensic reports released to us this week.

However, just the thought of having to listen to CA squawking for years to come because KC took an Alford plea makes me feel like howling "Noooooo." I have 2 huge reasons for wanting this case to end--one is justice for Caylee, the other is to banish the A's into oblivion so that I don't have to see them or hear them anymore.

I've never felt such a violent aversion and animosity toward two people simply because of the way they conduct themselves. I mean, I know that whatever CA and GA say or do isn't going to mean a d@mned thing to the jury because they're the perp's parents, so why can't I just shrug the A's off? Why does the mere sight of them antagonize me to this degree? I will never understand it, but I'm certainly not alone in my reaction.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Has there been any forensics released that would give info on whether there was decompositions fluids on the carpet in the trunk?

I have not caught up yet, so please correct me if I am wrong anyone. I thought I read it in this last doc dump that the carpet had decomposition, don't have the page though. I thought I read it in the link provided by Muzikman.

"Snip" Posted by Muzikman

Forensic Entomology Report released 11/06/09 #2
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/15084977...ymology-Report

 

[doogiesgirl]

The forensic page says she would have most likely moved the body the 19th - 22nd, but I'm thinking it was more like the 18th. Which I wonder if that would make a difference at all?

Can anyone find any record of when and where Casey was staying on the night of the 18th or the early morning, specifically what she was doing from 6:57pm until noon the next day?

Or am I just repeating things everyone knows but me.. I'm slow sometimes.. haven't gotten around the threads much as I'm pretty new here

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-18&c=4
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-19&c=4
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?c=4

mayelf---I like where you are going. If it can be proven that only KC had possession of her car say from June 19-27th.....that would be very convincing evidence I would think. I'm off to look at the links JBean provided. moo

 

[Friday]

In the report they state that the smell of decomp in the car was very strong 6 months later!

I hope they've sealed the car up somehow so that the jury can have a whiff if necessary.

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

I prayer you're right in that prosecutors won't even hear of a plea. Additionally, if she receives LWOP...I'm not certain that in the state of Florida that actually translates to no parole even though the initials stand for that. It's a bit difficult to find a clear cut definition for this in Florida.

ETA: for some reason this didn't pick up Friday's post #153 which this was directed to.

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

This is an interesting read, from the article linked below in which psychologists and lawyers have argued as existing for those sentenced to death row but not executed for an extended period of time.

DEATH ROW SYNDROME/DEATH ROW PHENOMENON
Psychologists and lawyers in the United States and elsewhere have argued that protracted periods in the confines of death row can make inmates suicidal, delusional and insane. Some have referred to the living conditions on death row – the bleak isolation and years of uncertainty as to time of execution – as the “death row phenomenon,” and the psychological effects that can result as “death row syndrome.” The origins of these concepts are often traced to the 1989 extradition hearings of Jens Soering, a German citizen who was charged with murders in Virginia in 1985 and who fled to the United Kingdom.

Soering argued to the European Court of Human Rights that the conditions he would face during the lengthy period between sentencing and execution would be as psychologically damaging as torture.

The court agreed. In its ruling that he could not be sent to a place that would sentence him to death, the court cited not the death penalty itself, but rather the “Death Row phenomenon” by which convicts spent years awaiting execution while their cases were appealed. (Associated Press, July 27, 1989). He was extradited in 1990, but only with the prosecutors’ promise not to seek the death penalty.

The case has been cited as precedent in international extradition cases, though today, courts in countries without the death penalty today often will not extradite to the United States because of the possibility of execution itself, regardless of how long the wait on death row, since the death penalty is seen as a violation of human rights.


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/time-death-row#chara