2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[LambChop]

Yep, digging up those darn bamboo roots.

 

[Aedrys]

I don't think that's a spill that can be attributed to beer or some other fluid. Can they show in court how a stain like this would come to be there? Like saturation levels, the time it would take for a stain like that to show up? Maybe they did something similar at a body farm or something to prove what kind stain it probably is? I'm just thinking there has to be some way to show how this is not a normal stain from normal wear and tear or a normal spill in a trunk.

 

[EgyptNug]

I'm thinking the same thing. Put her in the well and covered her with the wheel fabric cover and maybe tire on top and then off to Blockbusters without missing a step. JMO

Didn't KC say she had recently had a flat tire? She may not have had a spare in the car? And we do not see a spare tire in evidence which I would expect to see some testing on also if it were in that well. JMO

I believe in May she had the double flat while driving home after a club, panicing to get home (CA no doubt calling up a storm), road sparks flying, and she called 2 guy friends to help out. IIRC (12,000+ doc pages later my memory is not perfect at this point), but iirc GA bought two pre-owned tires to replace the ones that got damaged. I believe it was discussed in this specific interview (one of the guys interview, i think) whether there was a spare or not prior to that (May), but i dont recall which it was..

I have a Sunfire and I'm just going outside to start it. Bit cold here today! I will measure the wheel well and be right back.

Width 24" Length 28" Depth 6" The spare tire is at the back of the compartment towards the back seat.

Someone tried to clean that trunk, that's for sure.

I am AMAZED at how clean that liner looks to the naked eye in those pics. IMO, only an experienced car detailer could do that. I've never carried a dead body in my trunk and my trunk looks far worse.

I believe KC put her body in the laundry bag the following day when she went back to Hopespring. She then stuffed Caylee deep into the trunk and put the collapsible bin in front of her, the trash bag on one side of the bin and the gas cans on the other. Anyone catching a glimpse into the trunk would just assume it was her personal belongings in there along with a bag of trash she forgot to put in the dumpster. If anyone smelled anything she could always say "Oh, it's that stupid trash, I meant to toss it in the dumpster the other day but I was in a hurry so I just stuck it in the trunk. I've just been so busy I forgot all about it, silly me."

I definitely agree.
GA said he saw the blue bin, hangers, and clothes everywhere back there in the trunk (gas can day). I don't recall him saying he saw a trashbag. (?). I think Caylee was in the well, with the cover on top (no tire in there), or pushed to the back, with the bin and gas cans and clothes everywhere. After GA took the gas cans, she replaced that space with the bag of trash from TL's apartment.

Yes, whatever CA lies about/gets agitated about is of vital importance. Maybe she knew that Casey had already knocked out one of Caylee's teeth, so she knew they would not find a complete set with the remains.

Re: tooth, if Caylee WAS missing a tooth, maybe that is the reference to Lee saying "It's not like last time KC".. BUT fwiw, I doubt that. I just have a really strong hunch that "last time" refers to something huge and incriminating.

 

[JSR]

Regarding the above picture. Has anyone seen a picture of the portion that has been cut out? I'm curious to see what THAT portion looked like underneath or under alternative light source. It appears that it was cut out by LE? No?

 

[whiskeygurl]

Hi all... The Sentinel site is still jammed up (image of hordes of WSers' computers making a "run on the bank" style scene outside the electronic gates of the OS), but before it went down, I managed to view the top & underside of the trunk liner. Wanted to throw this out there:

The top side does not appear stained to my eyes, in these pix at least, until they fluoresce it. (Nice work there, CA.) But the bottom side has that curved stain and I am so very much wanting to see that stain residue picture next to photos of the stain on the outside of the garbage bag that GA and SB retrieved from the trunk in the tow yard!!!

Of course I am travelling today for work :banghead: since I have not yet mastered the art of requesting off on doc dump days. :computer:

(My first thread too--happy Mardi Gras all! :bananapowerslide

I watch forensic files on TrueTv every night. One case they had on there they were able to retrieve a facial impression off a garbage bag that was used to smother this woman. I wonder if there was any impressions left on that garbage bag or fingerprints.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Don't forget too that rigor mortis sets in about 3 hours after death so if Caylee was in the trunk unbagged until the following day when KC could get back to her she would have still been stiff as rigor last about 12 hours and then gradually the body disappates.....so KC would have had a hard time hiding her other than covering her over with something or if she were bagged. JMO

Caylee could have been placed in the spare wheel well prior to rigor mortis, her little body could have been manipulated any way in the confines of the bags. I also believe that the rust color on the ouutside of the bag is from rust on the inside of the spare tire well. JMO.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

*pics removed and bold by me*

I don't think the space was big enough. After getting the actual measurements from Wescott the space is only 6 inches deep as I originally hypothesized. I was off on the length and width but to me the depth of only 6 inches is the kicker. Also with the dimensions Wescott was able to provide the total amount of space is only 2.3 cu ft. Caylee was 37 inches tall (3ft1) given body proportions that would make Caylee roughly 15 inches wide at the shoulders. So she wouldn't fit on her side in that space and be completely covered by the carpeted lid. That and she would be to tall for her to be on her back. If her legs were tucked up she would still be coming out of the 6 inch deep compartment. To me Caylee just doesn't fit in that space in a way that the cover can be placed over her to cover her and look normal. That and the stain suggests something was on top of it and leaked through the carpet to the board.


I personally think she was placed in the trunk on top of the spare cover. Possibly bagged and other items were placed in the trunk to conceal her. Such as the trash from TL's and the gas cans and such.

While I do appreciate your theory, I am still convinced of Caylee being in the spare wheel well, moreso now than ever. GA and the Tow yard man, grabbed the bag of trash out of the trunk and threw it out of the car neither man saw Caylee. The cover to the spare tire might not have fit perfect with Caylee in the spare tire wheel well but enough so as to conceal her with other items on top. Hate to say it but once that precious child started decomposing, the smaller she got.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Yep, digging up those darn bamboo roots.

Yes, and don't forget the shrub that GA and CA moved from one spot to another. Forgive me I have forgotten the name of the bush.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Please go here and look at these pictures from a while back. Go to post # 93
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93786&page=4

 

[scorpion1110]

Caylee could have been placed in the spare wheel well prior to rigor mortis, her little body could have been manipulated any way in the confines of the bags. I also believe that the rust color on the ouutside of the bag is from rust on the inside of the spare tire well. JMO.

I have also always believed that the rusty color on the bag came from something metallic whether it was the trunk, the dumpster at the towyard or whatever, it just looks like rust to me and not blood as some have speculated

 

[Tuffy]

I have also always believed that the rusty color on the bag came from something metallic whether it was the trunk, the dumpster at the towyard or whatever, it just looks like rust to me and not blood as some have speculated

I think some people were speculating that the rust colored substance was decomp fluids.

We don't really know if the trunk or dumpster had rust in them. I don't know, to me I just don't think its rust.

 

[Harmony 2]

While I do appreciate your theory, I am still convinced of Caylee being in the spare wheel well, moreso now than ever. GA and the Tow yard man, grabbed the bag of trash out of the trunk and threw it out of the car neither man saw Caylee. The cover to the spare tire might not have fit perfect with Caylee in the spare tire wheel well but enough so as to conceal her with other items on top. Hate to say it but once that precious child started decomposing, the smaller she got.

re bolded and underscored by me:

Are you saying that Caylee's remains were in the spare tire well at the tow yard on July 16th (a whole month after going missing)? If so, I do not agree with that assessment.

Please go here and look at these pictures from a while back. Go to post # 93
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93786&page=4

Do we know for sure the photos of that vehicle are from the Anthony case? Or are they photos of someone else's Sunfire to show what the trunk looks like?

 

[momtective]

re bolded and underscored by me:

Are you saying that Caylee's remains were in the spare tire well at the tow yard on July 16th (a whole month after going missing)? If so, I do not agree with that assessment.




Do we know for sure the photos of that vehicle are from the Anthony case? Or are they photos of someone else's Sunfire to show what the trunk looks like?

I stated in big blue letters on that post "FYI: THESE photos are NOT the photos of Casey's car BUT that of a WS member who took photos of her car to show what the trunk looked like inside etc."

I'm glad they were brought back up though because I'm now convinced, there was no way Caylee's body was in that spare wheel well. It simply isn't deep enough. [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4657126&postcount=93"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Images Only NO DISCUSSION![/ame]

 

[Harmony 2]

I stated in big blue letters on that post "FYI: THESE photos are NOT the photos of Casey's car BUT that of a WS member who took photos of her car to show what the trunk looked like inside etc."

I'm glad they were brought back up though because I'm now convinced, there was no way Caylee's body was in that spare wheel well. It simply isn't seep enough. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Images Only NO DISCUSSION!

Thank you! I did not scroll down far enough to see the big blue letters. LOL Too early and need more coffee LOL

 

[Just Jayla]

I have also always believed that the rusty color on the bag came from something metallic whether it was the trunk, the dumpster at the towyard or whatever, it just looks like rust to me and not blood as some have speculated

I've mostly leaned toward this as well, maybe it bounced off the side of the dumpster and got the rusty nasties on it.
If it were to be fluid from the trunk involving Caylee's body, I would think decomp fluid, not blood. Does not seem to be the right color for dried or wet blood.
But why would KC leave a bag with decomp fluid in her trunk? Yes, she may have been trying to cover the smell, but she had to know that would be big evidence of a dead Caylee being in there, makes no sense she would dispose of Caylee but leave a bag with Caylee's fluids on it. Of course, none of what she has done makes any sense to a normal person...

 

[LambChop]

To me, it looks as if they removed the treated layer (shiny/reflective appearance) of the bottom of the spare tire cover and exposed the stain trapped between the carpet and treated layer.

This looks like the same color that is on the bag. Since we don't know when she put the bag in the car and only that she had used a papertowel to try to clean up the stain because that was in the bag, she could have thrown the bag over the stain after putting the papertowel in the bag thinking she would get rid of it later. It's possible she was not even aware the bag was stained.

What interested me, too, was the fact that KC purchased six/eight rolls of papertowels at Target so apparently she planned on going back to the car to do some more cleaning. JMO

 

[Just Jayla]

This looks like the same color that is on the bag.

So...That would have required more than a tiny bit of fluid-Not only for it to be left on the bag like that, but to completely saturate that board. To clean that trunk thoroughly would have taken more than a handful of paper towels. And it had to have been cleaned, because the black light was not exactly exposing heavy pools and splotches everywhere.
Whichever Anthony cleaned that trunk then had to have seen the color, smelled the fluid in the wet vac, or on the towel they cleaned with. CA is a nurse. GA indicted the circle stain smelled horrfying.
How? Granparents? There was never a chance to get CA on the side of LE, she made a firm decision and acted on it, it was too late to go back once she cleaned her grandaughter's bodily fluids, washed the odor from KC's pants, etc.

ETA-I know some have pointed out that no cleaning solutions (soaps) were found by the labs-CA could easily just have used water and gotten the same effect-Maybe they did not have carpet cleaner in the house, or she did not have time to make a solution. While surfactants help to carry dirt to the surface, water would have worked seemingly well enough, would have brought a lot of the fluid back to the surface. And unless they had a powerful/commercial shop vac, some of the water she put down would not have come back up and would have settled down to the board below.

 

[LambChop]

While I do appreciate your theory, I am still convinced of Caylee being in the spare wheel well, moreso now than ever. GA and the Tow yard man, grabbed the bag of trash out of the trunk and threw it out of the car neither man saw Caylee. The cover to the spare tire might not have fit perfect with Caylee in the spare tire wheel well but enough so as to conceal her with other items on top. Hate to say it but once that precious child started decomposing, the smaller she got.

Caylee's body was not in the car at the tow yard. We know that because they would have seen the black bag as the spare wheel compartment is only 6 inches high and also the car would have been swarming with flies. KC parked her car at TL's apartment. If the body was in the car any length of time the flies would have drawn attention to her car. We know by the 27th when she dropped the car off at Amscot the car smelled because she texted AH about it. Your body is approximately 90% fluids and when decomposition starts everything breaks down. After two weeks in the car there would be fluids all over the place so imagine what it would look like after 31 days. JMO

 

[kcsmom76]

Do the images on pics 3 & 4 look like a precious Caylee foot to anyone else?

 

[Harmony 2]

Regarding the above picture. Has anyone seen a picture of the portion that has been cut out? I'm curious to see what THAT portion looked like underneath or under alternative light source. It appears that it was cut out by LE? No?

I believe those are the pieces where chloroform was found:

Look at the images for Q22, Q44, Q45, etc. depicted on here and they appear to match up: (the back side of those pics has a photo of how to place the cover on the spare tire well.)

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/021610-anthony-discovery/indexGallery.htm

You can also see those pieces under an alternative light source at that link. HTH

Also in the graphic I posted if you imagine Caylee's head on the left side then it would coincide with the residue of the chloroform. Isn't that the side the hair with the decomposition at the proximal end was found as well?