2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[cloud9]

The other day I was looking up info on post-mortem fluid purging. I wasn't sure if it purged through the pores or out of orifices. I did find an article but did not post ithere because the pics are rather graphic. One picture shows decomp fluid coming out of the nose and/or mouth of a corpse. The fluid is the exact color of the red on that white trash bag.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/...ent-exhibit-6-in-cindy-anthony-deposition.jpg

 

[strawberry]

That ain't pizza sauce!!

 

[cloud9]

That ain't pizza sauce!!

No it isn't. I had a better trash bag photo in my computer that died! It was more defined and could have showed this better. :banghead:

 

[belle3]

No it isn't. I had a better trash bag photo in my computer that died! It was more defined and could have showed this better. :banghead:

I just had to say omg!! was there ever any analysis done on the outside of those trash bags to see what it was? wouldnt it smell as much as the trunk did though?

 

[QueenD]

The other day I was looking up info on post-mortem fluid purging. I wasn't sure if it purged through the pores or out of orifices. I did find an article but did not post ithere because the pics are rather graphic. One picture shows decomp fluid coming out of the nose and/or mouth of a corpse. The fluid is the exact color of the red on that white trash bag.

I worked with a girl one time that had worked in a nursing home and she told me when patients pass away they would put a towel wrapped a certain way at the deceased rear end and up front if female to keep fluids from leaking till coroner arrived. She said it was to keep from having such a mess and if anything in bowels that was the first area to go.

I also seen this done when my Mom passed away. Although they had the door pulled I stood inside and watched.

 

[cloud9]

I just had to say omg!! was there ever any analysis done on the outside of those trash bags to see what it was? wouldnt it smell as much as the trunk did though?

I'm sure they must have done plenty of analysis. I also believe it smelled, and not from "pizza."

 

[cloud9]

I worked with a girl one time that had worked in a nursing home and she told me when patients pass away they would put a towel wrapped a certain way at the deceased rear end and up front if female to keep fluids from leaking till coroner arrived. She said it was to keep from having such a mess and if anything in bowels that was the first area to go.

I also seen this done when my Mom passed away. Although they had the door pulled I stood inside and watched.

Yes!!! A neighbor brought his g/f toddler to my house one night almost dead. He said she wasn't breathing right. Actually, he had severely beaten her, which I didn't know until much later. I called 911. She was alive enough to look at me. I could hear the death rattle as her lungs started filling with fluids. They couldn't save her; injuries too severe, so she died in my house. Anyway, the first responders, investigators, police, etc. were overwhelmed with the odor. The bowels, bladder, etc. relax at death, the fluids start coming out and the odor is terrible.

I'm sorry about your Mom

 

[wenwe4]

Yes!!! A neighbor brought his g/f toddler to my house one night almost dead. He said she wasn't breathing right. Actually, he had severely beaten her, which I didn't know until much later. I called 911. She was alive enough to look at me. I could hear the death rattle as her lungs started filling with fluids. They couldn't save her; injuries too severe, so she died in my house. Anyway, the first responders, investigators, police, etc. were overwhelmed with the odor. The bowels, bladder, etc. relax at death, the fluids start coming out and the odor is terrible.

I'm sorry about your Mom

I am so sorry about this event that you had to endure as well, but I feel confident that child had a sweet soul to be with in her final hours. So glad you were there with her to let her know she was finally safe.

 

[cloud9]

I am so sorry about this event that you had to endure as well, but I feel confident that child had a sweet soul to be with in her final hours. So glad you were there with her to let her know she was finally safe.

Thank you.

 

[wenwe4]

Jean C on In Session saying stain in the trunk will be part of the next hearing but (if I heard correctly) this information will be coming into trial.
Mark Eiglarsh on In Session saying "you cannot supress the nose" - jurors are going to know there was the smell of death in that car and "she's got some 'splaining to do".

 

[3doglady]

Is this the white line you are discussing? I thought that it may be a fold or wrinkle in the blanket or bag that decomp fluid settled in.

 

[TallyHo]

View attachment 14235

Is this the white line you are discussing? I thought that it may be a fold or wrinkle in the blanket or bag that decomp fluid settled in.

Yes - this is the line that I was seeing. I think I got fooled a little because it sort of follows the line of the duct tape, so I originally thought it might have been an artifact of duct tape wrapping her torso and arms, but I think it is more likely caused by something (drawstring???) on the laundry bag or the possible the garbage bags. Or a wrinkle in one of the bags, like you thought!

 

[wenwe4]

View attachment 14235

Is this the white line you are discussing? I thought that it may be a fold or wrinkle in the blanket or bag that decomp fluid settled in.

this is the white line that I thought had the outline of the shovel head.

 

[Solace]

this is the white line that I thought had the outline of the shovel head.

Wenwe,

Our pictures are incredible. Do you think they will do the same as you have done for us on this Board with the picture (at trial)?

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Not sure if this was posted in this thread or not, sorry if it already has been. I am a little behind on my reading. It sounds as if we will be hearing more about Dr.Martin in tomorrows Fry hearing. Dr.Martin claims she helped solve a murder case In 2004.
Law enforcement in Texas used wood analysis to link Mendoza to the murder.
Martin used LIBS for her analysis.

Dr. Martin explained LIBS --
What's in a stain? Analysis to be argued Friday ''Snip" By Jacqueline Fell, Reporter
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 30, 2011

Read More Here: http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news...y-Anthony-case
ORLANDO -- More transcripts of depositions were filed. One of the four added in the court file is of Dr. Madhavi Martin from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

Dr. Martin explained LIBS -- Laser-induced breakdown spectroscopy. She describes it as making a fingerprint.This technique has been around since the 1960s.

She was asked by Dr. Arpad Vass to see if she could find magnesium, calcium, sodium, or iron while analyzes carpet from inside Anthony's car.

This type of analysis to determine elements for decomposition has never been introduced in court before.

Anthony's defense team is fighting to keep it out.

Martin is listed along with Vass and Dr. Marcus Bain Wise as assisting in the analysis of air samples taken from Anthony's trunk.


Dr. Madhavi Martin deposition excerpt http://www.cfnews13.com/static/artic...cerpt-0330.pdf

 

[TiaM]

Thought this was very interesting after reading all about the stain in KC's trunk. Link to article is below.


Snipped: In the absence of evidence such as bones, clothing or strands of hair, forensic investigators can verify whether a body decomposed at a site indoors by looking for traces of lingering fat deposits, according to a new report.

Snipped: Photo of body stain in article at link below. Though the corpse was removed and the site was cleaned, the concrete floor where the patient was found bore a distinct white stain in the shape of a woman’s body. The odd mark has puzzled past and current custodians of the facility, which is now owned by Ohio University and used for offices, studios and an art museum. (The actual location of the stain is in an unused portion of the building and is closed to the public.)


http://www.physorg.com/news144955495.html

http://www.physorg.com/news144955495.html

I found the caption to the picture in this article to be interesting also:

"Scientists have determined that this stain on a concrete floor was produced by fatty acids and an acidic cleaner."

How ironic indeed, and what a twist of justice if the thorough scrubbing and the cleanser that Cindy used on the trunk liner that day, contributed to preserving rather than obliterating the stain and what it is showing us.

Just one more thing for ICA to hate and blame Cindy for. Possibly the one most emotional piece of evidence that will get ICA death instead of life.

 

[TallyHo]

I found the caption to the picture in this article to be interesting also:

"Scientists have determined that this stain on a concrete floor was produced by fatty acids and an acidic cleaner."

How ironic indeed, and what a twist of justice if the thorough scrubbing and the cleanser that Cindy used on the trunk liner that day, contributed to preserving rather than obliterating the stain and what it is showing us.

Just one more thing for ICA to hate and blame Cindy for. Possibly the one most emotional piece of evidence that will get ICA death instead of life.

I thought exactly the same thing - the irony would be rich, indeed!!

 

[wenwe4]

Wenwe,

Our pictures are incredible. Do you think they will do the same as you have done for us on this Board with the picture (at trial)?

I think the state will do so much better - the comments from the emails when the tech's were examining these long before we ever spent hours looking - it popped off their computer screen like a very clear image (imo).


today at the hearing JA mentioned turning over a disc of (nearly 300?) pictures to the defense which also included pictures of the remains. I believe the State has held onto these pictures until the last minute - and I believe there were going to be pictures from the coroner. Some of the pictures were previously sealed - so I don't know how that will come out (to us) if at all.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Originally Posted by bogeygal
Thought this was very interesting after reading all about the stain in KC's trunk. Link to article is below.


Snipped: In the absence of evidence such as bones, clothing or strands of hair, forensic investigators can verify whether a body decomposed at a site indoors by looking for traces of lingering fat deposits, according to a new report.

Snipped: Photo of body stain in article at link below. Though the corpse was removed and the site was cleaned, the concrete floor where the patient was found bore a distinct white stain in the shape of a woman’s body. The odd mark has puzzled past and current custodians of the facility, which is now owned by Ohio University and used for offices, studios and an art museum. (The actual location of the stain is in an unused portion of the building and is closed to the public.)


http://www.physorg.com/news144955495.html

Yes it is a great read! Thanks so much for posting.


"Snip" http://www.physorg.com/news144955495.html

Colleagues discovered adipocere – fatty acids primarily made up of calcium salts – in a dry, airy building. Until this study, researchers had reported finding this evidence of human decomposition only in moist, anaerobic environments, such as when bodies are stored for extended periods in grave sites or submerged in water, he said.



After observing the samples under a microscope and conducting a mass spectrometry analysis in the lab, the researchers determined that the light-colored, human-shaped “stain” was produced by degradation of the skin or fatty tissue from the decomposed body and chemicals from the Blu-Lite cleaner.

Dr. Martin explained LIBS -- Laser-induced breakdown spectroscopy. She describes it as making a fingerprint.
Read More Here: http://www.cfnews13.com/article/new...sis-to-be-argued-Friday-in-Casey-Anthony-case

 

[TallyHo]

this is the white line that I thought had the outline of the shovel head.

That's possible as well, but the big issue I have with that is that if the decomp fluid had gotten on the shovel, I am guessing that she could have never gotten the smell out of the shovel. But I could certainly be wrong about that - it's happened before! :smile: