2010.04.02 *SPECIFIC* Caylee's Position Inside Bags

[3doglady]

I had the impression that she was not bagged in the trunk for a while. This is quite an impression on the rug - which meant that the purging was quite a bit - no? - for it to seep through the bagging and onto the rug.

Why do I have the impression that she was not in a bag in the trunk until later.

I agree. I can see fluid leaking through the blanket and laundry bag to that degree but it seems that the image would not be as vivid if she was in the plastic trash bag. Also the white line could just be a fold or wrinkle in the blanket that decomp fluid settled in. Then again I'm getting more confused about her position.

 

[TallyHo]

It's post #35 on this thread--I tried to quote it but the attachment/images didn't come through which sort of defeated the purpose.

Thanks! Just tried to quote it as well, and the images didn't come through for me either.

Look at the picture of the bag - there is absolutely a wire around the mouth of it that looks about like the right thickness and curvature to possibly be the source of that white line we are seeing????

 

[3doglady]

Hope I copied the images correctly. Bumping for discussion in connection with the "stain in trunk" thread. I think ynot figured out the source of the "line" across Caylee's upper torso in the image in the trunk. If so, Caylee's body was in the laundry bag head-first with her back toward the bottom of the laundry bag photo and her knees toward the top.

Unless I messed that up in my head.

ETA: OK, larger images can be seen if you go to ynot's original post.

I'm totally confused. The wire is at the opening of the laundry bag or top, correct? So if the line is across her upper torso wouldn't that mean that her feet are in the bottom of the bag?

 

[ynotdivein]

I *think* the line is a wrinkle from one of the bags, whether garbage or laundry...

But I am going to join you on the Confused Couch, 3dog.

 

[TallyHo]

I *think* the line is a wrinkle from one of the bags, whether garbage or laundry...

But I am going to join you on the Confused Couch, 3dog.

I'll join ya'll on the confused couch, lol!!! :crazy:

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I agree with the poster who noted that she may have been bagged in the same direction. In all three bags, IMO-Let me see if I can describe:

-She is bagged head first into the first bag, causing her legs to sort of fold over her trunk and head when the bag is picked up-ties on the bag may have broken at the point, KC needs another bag.

-If she goes to bag in the opposite direction, Caylee's feet are now at the bottomof the second bag with her trunk weight bearing down against her legs and feet-A little awkward.

-Rather, the second bag goes in the same direction to support the weight of her upper body without shifting the contents of the first bag too much. Furthermore, trash is much easier to bag when the heavier elements are at the bottom, gravity persists.

-The whole thing goes into the laundry bag as is, with Caylee head and torso down, maybe bent a little so she would actually be on her back/shoulder blades if the trash/laundry bags were set upright....

-But, the trash and laundry bags were not set upright in the trunk, it would have been laid on its side for room, maybe elongating Caylee's body a bit.

-Animals get to the bag and drag away Caylee's lower extremities first and then torso, while there is still flesh, as the spine was found together in a manner that indicated she had not fully decomposed at that time. Had she fully decomposed, animals would not necessarily be attracted anyway (duh, Jayla). Legs, buttocks and torso (with exception to the intestines which animals tend to avoid) are the fleshiest part of the body and would be most desireable to scavengers (Sorry, sweet Caylee).

The coming and going of water, nature's force which is strong enough to erode mountains, allows the skull to float in any given direction. As the lower extremities have been puled out and the skull pulled toward the opening of the bag, the bottom of the bag is lighter and floats higher than the front of the bag holding the skull when water moves in-thus Roy noting that the skull may have been at the lip of or under the bag. (my paraphrase)
Keeping in mind that her skull was only 6" in height, it probably was not very weighty, but had more weight than the empty portion of the bag.

I had the impression that she was not bagged in the trunk for a while. This is quite an impression on the rug - which meant that the purging was quite a bit - no? - for it to seep through the bagging and onto the rug.

Why do I have the impression that she was not in a bag in the trunk until later.

But on another thread, I just read that at the time of death bowels, bladder relax and flow starts. The odor is supposedly awful, per the poster. So I can see if she is in this laundry bag at first and allowed to sit in the trunk for three days and the purging starts later that this would cause an outline. I thought she returned home to double bag Caylee; she probably went home to get a large black garbage bag - I think this is what they also found.

OH GAWD!!! This just makes me so sick and hurts my heart so bad..Precious Caylee, I can't imagine what her last moments alive must have been to her..terror, first comes to mind..

I do hope the SAs have this or similiar to this when presenting the evidence. They do have a 3D simulation on the remains site but I hope and pray a jury gets to hear these details..along with the details of the duct tape over Caylee's airways...how awful for Caylee and what a depraved, heinous and atrocious act from the prisoner...diabolical as JG described ICA...:maddening: JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Solace]

OH GAWD!!! This just makes me so sick and hurts my heart so bad..Precious Caylee, I can't imagine what her last moments alive must have been to her..terror, first comes to mind..

I do hope the SAs have this or similiar to this when presenting the evidence. They do have a 3D simulation on the remains site but I hope and pray a jury gets to hear these details..along with the details of the duct tape over Caylee's airways...how awful for Caylee and what a depraved, heinous and atrocious act from the prisoner...diabolical as JG described ICA...:maddening: JMHO

Justice for Caylee

LLL,

What do you mean a simulation on the remains site - is it a simulation of Caylee inside the bag and the stain? And where can I find it.

 

[TallyHo]

I'm totally confused. The wire is at the opening of the laundry bag or top, correct? So if the line is across her upper torso wouldn't that mean that her feet are in the bottom of the bag?

Yes - that's the way I'm seeing it as well IF (and that's a big if) the line was caused by the wire on the laundry bag. Maybe we're both not as confused as we thought, LOL!!

I suppose if that is the wire we are seeing, the garbage bags would have to have been poking out of the top of the laundry bag a little for this to line up right. But I think you and Ynot might be right that the line was caused by a wrinkle in one of the bags.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

LLL,

What do you mean a simulation on the remains site - is it a simulation of Caylee inside the bag and the stain? And where can I find it.

Solace it's of the remains site...
3-D ANIMATION: Video | Images

Video
http://www.wftv.com/video/20321952/index.html

Images
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20318602/detail.html

 

[Tulessa]

I had the impression that she was not bagged in the trunk for a while. This is quite an impression on the rug - which meant that the purging was quite a bit - no? - for it to seep through the bagging and onto the rug.

Why do I have the impression that she was not in a bag in the trunk until later.

But on another thread, I just read that at the time of death bowels, bladder relax and flow starts. The odor is supposedly awful, per the poster. So I can see if she is in this laundry bag at first and allowed to sit in the trunk for three days and the purging starts later that this would cause an outline. I thought she returned home to double bag Caylee; she probably went home to get a large black garbage bag - I think this is what they also found.

Solace, I had the same impression. JMO, but I think ICA used the trunk as a babysitter and Caylee was asleep in there before she passed. Who knows how long it was before she was bagged.

 

[Tulessa]

I *think* the line is a wrinkle from one of the bags, whether garbage or laundry...

But I am going to join you on the Confused Couch, 3dog.

I sure hope that is a sectional, because I am confused now.:waitasec:

I got a feeling we are going to need 2 sectionals....

 

[Tulessa]

Ok, Now I am just sick.

 

[3doglady]

I apologize for my drawing. If the imprint I am seeing on the bag is correct (big If) it's possible the white line is the wire at the top of the laundry bag. The imprint on this side of the bag would have to be the opposite side (or top side) from the stain on the trunk. The elbow and arm looks like it is front of her body with her knee bent. The stain looks like she was laying with her other arm behind her and her bottom leg straight and top leg bent which fits with this imprint. Her head would have been outside the laundry bag. Also her arms would have been loose and I don't even want to think about the implications of that.

Also the bottom of the laundry bag looks like it is in the shape of her extended foot. The Stain would be on the side of the bag we aren't seeing.

 

[3doglady]

Ok that last post made me ill so I'm going for a walk.

 

[Solace]

View attachment 14237

View attachment 14238

I apologize for my drawing. If the imprint I am seeing on the bag is correct (big If) it's possible the white line is the wire at the top of the laundry bag. The imprint on this side of the bag would have to be the opposite side (or top side) from the stain on the trunk. The elbow and arm looks like it is front of her body with her knee bent. The stain looks like she was laying with her other arm behind her and her bottom leg straight and top leg bent which fits with this imprintView attachment 14239. Her head would have been outside the laundry bag. Also her arms would have been loose and I don't even want to think about the implications of that.

Also the bottom of the laundry bag looks like it is in the shape of her extended foot. The Stain would be on the side of the bag we aren't seeing.

The botom of the laundry bag does look like an extended foot. But the stain looks like the leg is curbed in - the diagram you outlined on the stain is it - I have no doubt. So I do not know how the extended foot gets there. Not sure.

 

[TallyHo]

View attachment 14237

View attachment 14238

I apologize for my drawing. If the imprint I am seeing on the bag is correct (big If) it's possible the white line is the wire at the top of the laundry bag. The imprint on this side of the bag would have to be the opposite side (or top side) from the stain on the trunk. The elbow and arm looks like it is front of her body with her knee bent. The stain looks like she was laying with her other arm behind her and her bottom leg straight and top leg bent which fits with this imprintView attachment 14239. Her head would have been outside the laundry bag. Also her arms would have been loose and I don't even want to think about the implications of that.

Also the bottom of the laundry bag looks like it is in the shape of her extended foot. The Stain would be on the side of the bag we aren't seeing.

I believe this would be the correct orientation of things, if it turns out that the white line was caused by that laundry bag wire. After seeing the size and curvature of that wire, if that is how it is presented in court, I would have no problem believing that. Time will tell, I suppose!!

 

[3doglady]

The botom of the laundry bag does look like an extended foot. But the stain looks like the leg is curbed in - the diagram you outlined on the stain is it - I have no doubt. So I do not know how the extended foot gets there. Not sure.

In JWG's pic you can see an extended foot at the bottom. I think that is the leg she was laying on. The bent knee is on top which would also be the imprint on the bag. I think we are seeing the top side of the bag. The side of the bag we don't see would have the stain and extended foot.

 

[Mendara]

That poor little baby girl. Every time I think of her with her eyes shut, tape over her mouth just so scared. It makes me crazy and I don't doubt that KC deserves the death penalty. The fact alone that she drove around smelling her daughter rotting in her car and it didn't bother her until it was too much and then she just threw her int he woods - breaks my heart.

I feel the shovel was used to lift Caylee's body but failed or maybe it was used to un-stick her fromt he drunk and then she drove her around to the dump area?

this all makes me sick.

 

[Solace]

That poor little baby girl. Every time I think of her with her eyes shut, tape over her mouth just so scared. It makes me crazy and I don't doubt that KC deserves the death penalty. The fact alone that she drove around smelling her daughter rotting in her car and it didn't bother her until it was too much and then she just threw her int he woods - breaks my heart.

I feel the shovel was used to lift Caylee's body but failed or maybe it was used to un-stick her fromt he drunk and then she drove her around to the dump area?

this all makes me sick.

Isn't it bizarre that she drove around with her in the trunk. Comes off as a total monster. No wonder Cindy has a hard time admitting the truth. One really has to be "detached" to drive around with your baby daughter in the trunk of your car. Seriously!

 

[MissJames]

I know everyone feels this way,but this is simply horrific! : (