2010.04.05 Hearing Today Monday 10am EST

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
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Just some background on producing the documents: as many posters already said, most organizations DON'T just hand over their documents. If you want to inspect, you go to the documents, they don't come to you. The fact that TES gave all of the documents to MN is actually a COURTESY to JB. And JB is misrepresenting what happens when he goes to MNs office - he can tab, take notes in his notebook, and if he had a good relationship with MN and TES, ask for copying. And by "good relationship" I mean CIVIL. Lawyers can be awful and tough in court, but in my experience, I've never seen opposing counsel NOT grant an extension, allow copying, etc., because everyone goes into the process thinking they'd like the same courtesy in return if need be.

If you sue Bank of America, you can't just walk in and demand their documents. It won't happen. I actually spent half my summer digging through documents on the trading floor of a major bank - and we were THEIR lawyers! They wouldn't let the documents leave the building. So the other side couldn't even come to the law offices, everyone had to camp out on this ridiculous trading floor.

Just because TES is a small organization doesn't mean its not entitled to the same protections and respect other organizations routinely receive. JB is lucky they aren't making him go to Texas!

Tm said on Ng that it would be a cold day in **** before he would let the defense see any records. So I respectfully disagree. This is an all out war. They are not going to be reasonable. They may have to go to Texas, afterall thats where Le found Lb's records. Talk about a coincidence. This is not a law suit, this is a capital case and the truth needs to prevail here. The Judge can decide to hold the truth at bay here if he chooses, but it would only result in an appeal later on. Three cheers for the truth, lets get everything out on the table so we can all move on. IMO
 
Hair at a crime scene, hmm. Particulalry with dna evidence such as hair, could mean something, could mean nothing. In this age of technology we are all atwitter when we hear there is dna. But dna is only part of the picture which shows guilt or innocence. Hair specifically can be a tough sell. Hair can end up in places in many ways, carryover, transference, etc. The only hair that would convince me that ANYONE other than "mother of the year" did harm to Caylee would be a hair from the head of Zanny the Nanny and we all know damn well that such a hair cannot, will not, be found as no such individual exists.
 
This is incorrect. The DNA on the duct tape was consistent with one of the FBI agents. There was a hair at the crime scene that was not Casey or Caylee's, but I can't recall exactly where it was found.

I will try to find it, but there is dna that is not consistent with an fbi agent. There was another dna that was consistent with an fbi agent. I wonder if this hair and dna are one in the same.
 
Is Jose going to be able to say at trial, "We never got to see the evidence that would prove Casey was innocent?" Will there be an "end" to this argument?

Wouldn't there have to be another trial to prove the SA willingly and knowingly kept evidence/information that (under law) they were to provide to the defense? Wouldn't that be against the law for the defense to do so? Will the SA have to answer these charges made by JB? Or is all of this allowed in the trial process?

TIA

The "scope" has to be limited. JS did that at the first hearing. Sure, JB could say "there is SOMEONE out there that did this crime and hid this body...I must find them". But that is his job to produce that person, if in the scope of the documents the judge has allowed him, that person does not exist.
 
Tm said on Ng that it would be a cold day in **** before he would let the defense see any records. So I respectfully disagree. This is an all out war. They are not going to be reasonable. They may have to go to Texas, afterall thats where Le found Lb's records. Talk about a coincidence. This is not a law suit, this is a capital case and the truth needs to prevail here. The Judge can decide to hold the truth at bay here if he chooses, but it would only result in an appeal later on. Three cheers for the truth, lets get everything out on the table so we can all move on. IMO

I agree... but, Casey won't talk. She's the only one of the face of this planet that knows the truth.
 
Tm said on Ng that it would be a cold day in **** before he would let the defense see any records. So I respectfully disagree. This is an all out war. They are not going to be reasonable. They may have to go to Texas, afterall thats where Le found Lb's records. Talk about a coincidence. This is not a law suit, this is a capital case and the truth needs to prevail here. The Judge can decide to hold the truth at bay here if he chooses, but it would only result in an appeal later on. Three cheers for the truth, lets get everything out on the table so we can all move on. IMO

Well, IMHOO, that would mean KC would confess. Ain't gonna happen. And that is the ONLY truth as far as I'm concerned.
 
Watching the hearing on PST, I'm shocked at how angry Nejames got about the defense not coming by to pick up the documents and how Baez and KC SMIRKED when he got angry. What? Do they think this was in their favor that MN got annoyed?

It just looked so "middle school" to me! MN getting frustrated was NOT a victory for the defense! Hello!
 
The facts are key to any legal strategy. 1st and 2nd year lawyers in a firm spend ALL their time digging through the facts, pulling out what helps their case, and working with more experienced lawyers to develop a coherent legal strategy.

No lawyer worth anything would ever ALLOW his adversary to pick out what documents are "relevant." You suck it up, sit in opposing counsel's office, and pick through all of the documents. Not only is it NOT your adversary's job to choose the "important" documents (as that gives away their legal strategy), but you shouldn't WANT that. You should WANT to look at EVERYTHING. It's called... ready for this... being PREPARED!

I think I'd have a chair thrown at me if a partner asked me to plan out the document review strategy and I said, "Oh don't worry boss, opposing counsel is going to send us the good stuff."

Excellent points and so 100% true!!!!
I believe that Jose Baez and "hard work" are indeed strangers.
 
I will try to find it, but there is dna that is not consistent with an fbi agent. There was another dna that was consistent with an fbi agent. I wonder if this hair and dna are one in the same.

No, you are incorrect about this. Baez et al. said it was not from any FBI agent, but they were wrong. There was only a tiny fragment of DNA found on the tape and it was consistent with one of the FBI agents as well as probably 20% of the rest of the world because it was such a tiny fragment.

The Q107 collection paper on which the unknown hair was found was placed under the World of Disney bag and the Gatorade bottle with the syringe in it, so most likely fell off of one of those items.
 
The "scope" has to be limited. JS did that at the first hearing. Sure, JB could say "there is SOMEONE out there that did this crime and hid this body...I must find them". But that is his job to produce that person, if in the scope of the documents the judge has allowed him, that person does not exist.

Wonder what JB thought of CM's statement in the post hearing interview- he said ( talking about whether the body was there or not during searches) That means that somebody else was involved. Doesn't mean necessarily that someone else did the actual killing'. Sounds to me like he is admitting KC's guilt - which appeared to surprise JB- but that they will dispute who dumped the body. Major faux pas. :innocent:
 
Overall I think Jb did a good job today. He established that these records could hold the key to the truth or the pathway to the truth. At any rate the records are very important to the fair trial system. I was surprized to see the SA siding with Tes. If they say there is nothing in the records, then why object to the defense seeing them?

I think the Judge understood to just look at 4000 records with your eyes and not be able to record them is pretty much useless. The Judge should have known this when he made the first order. Now it comes back to haunt him.

I believe he will side with the defense on this issue, otherwise the defense will go to Mn office and flag every single record for review by the judge. Time to quit trying to hide things and put the evidence on the table. It is the state that is causing all these delays. The defense has a right to investigate and the Judge should support them in anyway he can.

Mn did not make a good argument at all for keeping the records secret and keeping the records from the court. I was under the understanding that he was a really good Lawyer. Not impressed at all. The truth shall prevail, Mn, Tm, and Sa do not have a monopoly on the truth. IMO

Baez and the defense are not concerned with finding the truth, they are concerned with getting their client off of a murder charge. Do you not think there is a serious chilling effect that will take place on people volunteering to find missing children if the volunteers can be harassed in court as the defense tries to find yet another person to blame? Forget Zanny, forget Kronk, now it's one of the TES searchers that are so important.

YEs a person is entitled to a fair trial, but they don't get to destroy innocent people along the way. Baez admitted he doesn't know what he's looking for, so his whole purpose is to fish around for something to twist into beneficial for Casey. Disgusting.
 
Tm said on Ng that it would be a cold day in **** before he would let the defense see any records. So I respectfully disagree. This is an all out war. They are not going to be reasonable. They may have to go to Texas, afterall thats where Le found Lb's records. Talk about a coincidence. This is not a law suit, this is a capital case and the truth needs to prevail here. The Judge can decide to hold the truth at bay here if he chooses, but it would only result in an appeal later on. Three cheers for the truth, lets get everything out on the table so we can all move on. IMO
Look, it's pretty simple.

JB would have had everything he needed had he gotten off his lazy backside and actually looked at the records. The records were provided to him by the graciousness of MN.

Baez would rather conduct his 3-ring circus in a court setting than to actually do his J-O-B, and Judge Strickland is catching onto this fact. He won't rule in favor of Baez latest temper tantrum and no, it won't set up appeal issues, because this has already been ruled on and Baez was not able to offer up any new case law, any new findings, any new information.

Is anyone surprised it took Baez soooooo longggg to ever pass his Bar exam? He conducted himself today as if he were still in undergraduate studies! :doh:
 
Yep, it's kinda right up with what-his-names slip of "Grieving the loss of the life of this child" before Caylee's body was even found. :slap:

Did anyone tape that In Session talk with the lawyers and if so can you post it please? That is moving straight up to my number one favorite asenine thing I have ever heard a Casey lawyer say to date. Straight to the top!

Baez better thank God for Mr. Jordan not showing up today. That would have been a disaster of biblical proportions!
Mr. Jordon testified in his state subpoena interview many revealing things
1. He was contacted by a lady by the name of Laura Buchanan who was then and remains unkown to him. He has since learned she is a dear friend of mom and pop Anthony. ( In October of 2008 she blogged publicly about her affection for them, and that is only one example). Laura tried to convince him she searched the exact area Caylee was found in with him. Even looking at a photo of her, he does not recognize this woman and her claims made no sense to him, whatsoever. Still she insisted , she was working with the defense and asked him to call them. He declined. He was made so uncomfortable by her and what she was trying to get him to agree to that he KNEW to be untrue, he asked her never to contact him again.
2. To his surprise he received a call from Mort, whom we know from the Kronk interviews is ready willing and able to record interviews. Mort told him Laura thought the defense should contact Mr. Jordan. Very suspicious indeed, he asks a lawyer to accompany him and he records the interview.
3. Early on when first watching TV reports about the body being found off of Suburban drive, he mistakenly reported that he had searched the area.
4.Being shown the actual TES documents he filled out, and maps he initialed he came to understand that indeed he was not in the exact location at all, and moreover, like the other TES searchers who were interviewed under oath, he opined that indeed the exact area was ....guess what.... UNDER WATER!
4. Laura Buchanan was not brought in to testify for the defense today. Likely because it is painfully obvious that her information that she searched with Joe is either a mistaken recollection or an out and out lie. In either case, she would be, imo, quickly discredited by Mr. Nejame . Surely anthing Mr. Jordan would have to say about Laura will nail that coffin shut forever and her would be testimony will backfire. She filled out a form with Mr. Jordan's name on it, she had him down for searching an area that not only did he never search with her...he never searched that area, period. Rut row. I wont even go into her telling Mr. Jordan she was KY LE. If that is not true, that in itself is a crime. Her veracity is ...how can I put this politely...it needs to be looked into, with enthusiasm.
5. Putting Mr. Jordan on the stand and making the opportunity for these and other bad facts about the defense tactics would be such a mis-step, I am hard pressed to name it. Do you recall when he thought putting George on the stand would help illustrate that there was an agency relationship between LP, Tracey and Rob and the defense lawyers? Well..that sure backfired. George, being easily led by Mrs. Drane-Burdick proved just the exact opposite of Baez's argument. One would think Mr. Baez would learn to be careful what he wishes for.
6. Putting Mr. Jordan on the stand the fact that the area was UNDER WATER would surely be brought out by Mr. Nejame. There is no two ways about that. This form or that form, do you recall Laura or was she forgettable, these things will not be the headline. The headline would have read CASEY ANTHONY'S DEFENSE WITNESS TESTIFIED THE AREA WAS INDEED UNDERWATER WHEN TES TRIED TO SEARCH!
If I were Casey's lawyer I wouldn't want Mr. Jordan within a country mile of that witness stand.

Yes, it is very unfortunate, at best, that Mr. Jordan sent an e mail to LE before he thoroughly understood the facts of the exact area. It is not helped that he blogged and put up videos on YOUTUBE. Any time someone flip flops they lose credibility. No question. Even so, having him testify would only elicit a) he was mistaken and b) having reviewed the files and maps he has corrected his statements and opines wholly different than the quotes Mr. Baez is clinging to and c) Miss Buchanan is a friend of the Anthonys and he does not believe a word he says.

Yes, indeed, Baez ought to praise the Lord that Joe Jordan did not show up. Has he read this? You just can't make this stuff up!!!!
Joseph Jordan #2 Transcript From 11/05/09
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22918267/detail.html

___________________________
Unrelated:

What two lawyers would go on national TV running their mouth off , disparaging LE and the State and TES when the judge hasn't even ruled yet? Not ones that are looking out for their client's best interest, imo ones whose egos take over common sense. If he gets a glimpse of that little display of nonsense he is going to be even less inclined to cut them any slack, whatsoever. I am shocked, SHOCKED, that even the learned Mr. Mason does not understand that. In fact, I trust he does, because before he was on this case he opined publicly how very, very misguided the defense lawyers were for doing just that.

This brings me to my final observation. When Mr. Mason first came on the scene we all guessed why. My guess was he wants to go out in a blaze of glory, be on this very high profile, indeed the case of the century, write a book, be invited to give very very lucrative lectures, etc.
He confirmed that today by making the ill advised TV appearance and his remark that he wanted to do something relevant at this stage in his life.

Champagne to Nejame's office at once!
 
My own personal oppinion on LB's performance today?

I'll give you one word and it describes what he has been doing since involving himself with this stinker - FLAILING.

This guy thought he was going to make a name for himself by taking on this case. Unfortunately the name he is making for himself - BUFFOON
 
I would think that they want to call each and everyone of the searchers to see if they searched suburban. Afterall, the recorded ones admited that they went back there on their own 8 to 11 times. Some even said they searched that area before the storm faye.

There are also Police officers involved here. There may be more. The Judge can't ignore this, otherwise he will end up calling all these people. He will find a way to make the defense happy. IMO

He does not have to find a way to make the defense happy. He has to follow the law.

However, the Defense can come up with a way to make themselves happy. It has to include laws, etc.. to show it can be done. Then draw it up and send it to the Judge. But that would require work on JB's part. Something he refuses to do.

Since the Defense hasn't really called any of the possible witnesses that are all ready known.. it's a major stretch to assume they would call all those searchers. They can not fault the Judge, for their own failings.

HE can't even be blamed for them being idiots. He is making sure KC can't use it for her appeal by making sure she is setting there and seeing them act stupid.

JB has beaten this dead horse so bad, they can't even use it in the courtroom in front of the jury without everyone laughing at JB. the only one keeping JB from those files, is JB refusing to go look at them. And he wants everyone to believe it's everyone elses fault, but his own.
 
I will try to find it, but there is dna that is not consistent with an fbi agent. There was another dna that was consistent with an fbi agent. I wonder if this hair and dna are one in the same.

I need to do some digging as well. I remember reading that there were TWO pieces of dna on duct tape (I believe both were from duct tape, but could be wrong): one that could not be traced to Caylee, Casey or anyone in the family (hence, the mystery); and one that was clearly identified as belonging to one of the FBI techs.
 
OMG HELP!!! I forgot about this am's hearing ......where can one find the video from beginning to end? I've tried every news outlet I know in that area and can only find snipets. It's not even on youtube.

Can anyone lead me to where the whole video is? TIA!!!!
 
The searchers do not want their personal info splashed all over the place and I for one don't blame them.

:clap::clap: I completely agree! :banghead: What I don't understand is that Baez is going round and round in circles over these documents that "ARE NOT BEING KEPT FROM THE DEFENSE"!
They are just to lazy to go over to MN's office and mark the ones that they feel are of interest and get the records they want. Pure laziness IMO! :furious: Baez has been Lazy since day one IMO and it raises even more questions as to where all that money went that Casey got paid. I don't see that the defense used it appropriately, but that is another issue that IMO the state will do nothing about, just like they seem to over look other...IMO.
Back to the volunteers before I get a T/O lol.

TES is a non-profit organization and the searchers should not be harassed and have their personal information give out. This will affect any future searches and people are going to want to look the other way in the future instead of helping out in their community and who can blame them? I sure don't!
I understand where Baez is coming from, what I don't understand is why he has not carried his @zz to MN's office to read through the documents if this is so vital to Casey's DP/Murder case?
:waitasec: Why? I pray that the judge will finally step up and tell Baez to stop wasting the courts time and get off his @zz and start doing what he was paid to do! I also pray that the defense has to pay each time they pull these nonsense motions out of their @zz! :furious:


Something else I found of interest, Joe J. was supposed to be in court today. Baez was waiting for him and his attorney as a witness, but Joe was a no show. I wonder what happen and why he did not show?


 
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