2010.04.11 ~ Tommy and Gramma Hollars phone call

[elle1919]

I have to disagree with you about Ron not pointing at Joe. While the Cobra tapes may be taboo - the truth is those are Ron's own words - Ron is speaking and no one made him say the things he did - he said it. He lied that Joe told him about the "good place to dispose of a body". On the Cobra tapes Ron admits - he wasn't there - he got this from Tommy of all people. Ron was willing to break Joe's hands and take an assault charge no big deal. He also admits about the gun issue although I believe he was lying. Ron has done plenty of accusing - just not in the press. He has tried to put up a good front to the press but out of that light he has shown himself to be equally talented to Misty when if comes to telling windys.

I listened to the Cobra tapes and I didn't get the impression that RC was trying to pin Haleigh's disappearance on Joe or pointing his finger at him as being involved in Haleigh's disappearance. I didn't hear anything about RC's saying he wanted to break Joe's hands though....maybe I need to listen again?

 

[elle1919]

I meant to post this in the Werter speaks out thread. Crap.

Moved it to the other thread.

 

[1Chump]

Remember Misty being overheard at the bus stop talking about the bad chit they had gotten that weekend? I had speculated before that maybe they did more of that that night (like they had some left and didn't want to "waste" it) and maybe it was bad. Laced with something (my friend back a long time ago smoked some weed that was laced with PCP-was not a good experience) and they were outta their minds. Joe might have let his violent side take over. I don't know just a thought.

The only problem with it being drug related violence is once they came down, they should not be violent any longer.

I still don't think Tommy is talking about Joe. Tommy says "he." Just like in Misty's letter to Chelsea about the threats, Misty says "he." In both cases, it was others, Gma Flo with Tommy and Chelsea with Misty who said the "he" is Joe.

The minute Joe left town in the girl's car, they had no reason to fear him. They could have immediately told the cops and Joe would have been arrested before he could harm anyone.

The person they were afraid of had to be someone that was right there close to them to keep them in fear. Someone who made it clear if the cops came, he would take everyone out with him. Someone with guns who they believed would use them. Someone who they could never get everyone away from him. Joe does not fit that person.

I think Joe is the safe name to keep the real "he" from knowing that they are finally telling the true story.

 

[Justin Tyme]

So ToC says that he was scared, threatened by JO. There's a video on YT where MC is talking with her Dad and he's telling her that she just needs to tell them what happened to Haleigh. She says. she knows, but that," IT WOULD HURT TWO PEOPLE." She didn't say it was because JO threatened her. She didn't say, because she's scared. She said that it was because, "it would hurt two people." So, I don't think that either one of them were threatened by JO or were afraid of JO.

 

[1Chump]

I have thought this same thing. I bet FH couldn't wait to get off the phone so she could call everyone. The old saying telephone,telegraph or tell FH. Tommy just wanted her to call Lindsey, to call his lawyer and she wanted to question him and keep him talking.

That is why I do think when Tommy said the story about Ron disposing of Halegih was BS has some truth. Tommy disagreed with Gma Flo.

Anyone who has every had a Grandma like Gma Flo knows that you just agree wtih whatever they are saying. Because they do not shut up. They go on and on. Everthing they told you, they will repeat but say you were the one who told them. By agreeing, you can tell everyone that you just agreed so she would wind down enough for you to say what you called to say.

So Tommy disagreeing says that he did not want Gma Flo to repeat that story. IMO, that gives it more credibility.

 

[1Chump]

Great post, and I agree with most of it, however, why do you feel what happened to Haleigh was not accidential? I always clung to the theory that it was accidential (I suppose because my mind didn't want to wrap around the other theories.)

I don't think it was an accidental OD because they covered it up. By reporting her missing, LE came to their home. They had to clean any drugs/guns out of the home anyway. They cover up of an OD would be much easier than covering up a death by reporting a child missing. An OD would involve LE and CPS only, not the national media and all the other people who would get involved for a missing child.

The fact that they covered it up, IMO means that whatever Haleigh died from was something that could not be explained as an accident. IMO, Haleigh herself could not be seen because if she was seen, someone would be arrested for murder not an accidental death.

 

[Patty G]

So ToC says that he was scared, threatened by JO. There's a video on YT where MC is talking with her Dad and he's telling her that she just needs to tell them what happened to Haleigh. She says. she knows, but that," IT WOULD HURT TWO PEOPLE." She didn't say it was because JO threatened her. She didn't say, because she's scared. She said that it was because, "it would hurt two people." So, I don't think that either one of them were threatened by JO or were afraid of JO.

:waitasec: I thought Misty said: "it would hurt two people" while on the phone with Chelsea.

 

[gibby207]

So ToC says that he was scared, threatened by JO. There's a video on YT where MC is talking with her Dad and he's telling her that she just needs to tell them what happened to Haleigh. She says. she knows, but that," IT WOULD HURT TWO PEOPLE." She didn't say it was because JO threatened her. She didn't say, because she's scared. She said that it was because, "it would hurt two people." So, I don't think that either one of them were threatened by JO or were afraid of JO.

In fact, IMO, NOBODY is afraid of JO. They are just jealous because he's not in jail too. IMO, MOO, yadda, etc.

 

[1Chump]

Why would LE have to release it to Werter, If Werter made a public records demand to the jail to get the information that best serves his client? Isn't the jail the releasing entity?

It was not released under the public records demand. The media has been trying to get this tape for weeks. If LE was willing to release it under public records, the media would have received it directly from them.

Werter said on both JVM and NG that he had a great working relationship and was not going to do anything to risk that relationship. The fact that Werter released it meant that LE wanted him to release it.

 

[1Chump]

I have to disagree on this one. RC might be the only one who hasn't publicly pointed a finger at Joe Overstreet. Who knows what he told LE about who he suspects but, RC seemed to want to keep the attention off Joe O, in my opinion.

Statements like " the cousin wasn't there" and " there was no fight over no gun" seem to be a wall ...put up by RC between Joe and the crime. JMO This is the part I can't exactly figure out.

That was at the beginning when RC was still trying to point to a stranger abuction. But once they started focusing on Misty's lies, RC was not only putting Joe's name out there but in ways to point the finger directly at Joe. Ron was the first to tell anyone (Cobra) about Joe, the dock and using the alligators to get rid of a dead body.

 

[luvthesleuths]

What I find most interesting from this phone call is that Lindsay asks granny "was it him?" meaning Tommy.

And Tommy replies, "no it wasn't me and she should know that!"

So at this stage of the timeline when this phone call happened, even Lyndsay still had major doubts about her own husband!!?!

Not much of a vote of confidence for ToC!

I'm going to go back and catch up and read the whole thread now.

 

[suspicious1]

The only problem with it being drug related violence is once they came down, they should not be violent any longer.

I still don't think Tommy is talking about Joe. Tommy says "he." Just like in Misty's letter to Chelsea about the threats, Misty says "he." In both cases, it was others, Gma Flo with Tommy and Chelsea with Misty who said the "he" is Joe.

The minute Joe left town in the girl's car, they had no reason to fear him. They could have immediately told the cops and Joe would have been arrested before he could harm anyone.

The person they were afraid of had to be someone that was right there close to them to keep them in fear. Someone who made it clear if the cops came, he would take everyone out with him. Someone with guns who they believed would use them. Someone who they could never get everyone away from him. Joe does not fit that person.

I think Joe is the safe name to keep the real "he" from knowing that they are finally telling the true story.

1Chump, I love the way you broke that down. I totally agree with this. That's why I also think that Tommy wanted GMH to tell Misty. The purpose of that would've been to let Misty know that he was about to TALK....not about JO but about what really happened. Misty would've understood that to mean that he was about to tell about "Ron". When LE started that search and brought Misty and Tommy down to the dock, Misty knew the cat was out the bag....Not to mention...LE brought Ron over for a meeting the same day they took Misty down to the dock. If I had to guess, I would say they spoke to Ron after Misty confirmed Tommy's story down at that dock.

In my heart I believe that Misty has finally told the truth....But she was put into a position where she had no other choice but to tell the truth as she knows it.

Misty's lawyer comment: "Misty's position is she's told law enforcement what happened and it's their decision to act on the information," he said.

 

[grandmaj]

There is a thread in the parking lot to discuss the cobra tapes.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

It was not released under the public records demand. The media has been trying to get this tape for weeks. If LE was willing to release it under public records, the media would have received it directly from them.

Werter said on both JVM and NG that he had a great working relationship and was not going to do anything to risk that relationship. The fact that Werter released it meant that LE wanted him to release it.

I agree. We have to remember that Werter is not the one in possession of the audio. It's the jail and then LE decides if they want to release it or keep it. Back around the time of the search when Granny was all over the media talking about what Tommy said, LE had made a statement that those conversations were not going to be released to the public.

I feel this is part of LE tactic to get to the main POI and play all the players against each other. In other words, Werter can't just go to the jail and say, hey give me that audio that LE said not to release. He would of had to wait for LE-Jail to release it before he got it. IMO

 

[elle1919]

It was not released under the public records demand. The media has been trying to get this tape for weeks. If LE was willing to release it under public records, the media would have received it directly from them.

Werter said on both JVM and NG that he had a great working relationship and was not going to do anything to risk that relationship. The fact that Werter released it meant that LE wanted him to release it.

Hi 1Chump, how do you know the media has been trying to get this tape for weeks? Did a certain outlet request it but was formally denied? TIA

 

[Patty G]

It was not released under the public records demand. The media has been trying to get this tape for weeks. If LE was willing to release it under public records, the media would have received it directly from them.

Werter said on both JVM and NG that he had a great working relationship and was not going to do anything to risk that relationship. The fact that Werter released it meant that LE wanted him to release it.

:waitasec: I thought that Sheriff Hardy stated at the Press Conference when the media asked about the jailhouse phone call(s) that he was NOT releasing the tape at this time.

 

[OneLostGrl]

From new audio. Hank SR spent 12 hours in jail for being drunk and hitting someone. He had a knife and threatened suicide and the man that tried to grab him to get the knife away pressed charges when Hank SR hit him.

The 200 dollars that Lyndsy turned down seemed to be coming from Hank and Lisa...Lyndsy told them to keep it she didn't want their f'in money.

Your Momma told Vicky that Lyndsy was going to file for divorce. Flora's not talking to Lisa. She told Tommy that. ( at least back then she wasn't)

"tell her I have to do something that I should have done a long time ago" (no kidding....a year ago would have been good)

Not too much difference in the phone calls. Just a bit.

Thought I heard the woman in the background say that Chelsea has been going around running her mouth.? Anyone else hear that?

Uh oh. Flora said the n word. I didn't like that! ( she said he kicked the door in)

When he said if they start talking stupid he's gonna hang up on 'em- last time that he called they were all F'd up and being idiots but Flo says they were straight on this day.

I don't get how she knows they are straight if she isn't talking to them?

 

[OneLostGrl]

I agree. We have to remember that Werter is not the one in possession of the audio. It's the jail and then LE decides if they want to release it or keep it. Back around the time of the search when Granny was all over the media talking about what Tommy said, LE had made a statement that those conversations were not going to be released to the public.

I feel this is part of LE tactic to get to the main POI and play all the players against each other. In other words, Werter can't just go to the jail and say, hey give me that audio that LE said not to release. He would of had to wait for LE-Jail to release it before he got it. IMO

I wonder if Flo taped it too and had her own copy to hand over to Tommy's lawyer?

 

[luvthesleuths]

Just a thought...when ToC said in the phone call that "he tried to kill us all" ..how about this scenerio,

Joe was in town on a drug run, and that was his main purpose to be in Florida (maybe this was some of the bad dope they did that MC mentioned)

Joe was planning to leave town and wanted his money for the dope, RC refused to pay cause they thought it was a bad deal. Joe went over there to collect before he had to leave town, and went nuts when he found out he wasn't getting his money.

MC tries to make it better by telling Joe where a valuable gun of rons is stashed to pay the debt. All hop in the van to go get it, bring Haleigh cause she is still awake, go look for gun, no gun.

Joe goes more ballistic and grabs the steering wheel, or is driving the van himself and swerves driving like a maniac demanding pyment, Haleigh asleep by now in the back with her blanket, flies out of the van when it swerves cause the door slides open, she is killed.

Mc and Toc freak out on Joe...Joe throws it back on them because if they would have just honoured the drug deal in teh first place none of them would be in this position to start with. ToC catches wind RC is working overtime (when he called asking if MC was there) and so ToC MC and Joe start the clean up and cover up knowing they had time. They were going to stage an abduction with the bricks, but realize they have more time to really hide the body, so they get Haleigh out of the dumpster and bring her to the lake or wherever.

We have to remember that Joe is a shifty chracter and likes guns (can tell that just from the pics on his facebook) they are irresponsible partying teenagers and MC has only been involved with ron for a few months when Haleigh went missing.

Well that all came to mind from one sentence ToC said to his granny in the phone call.

 

[luvthesleuths]

I think it is so sad how messed this entire clan is. Mom is threatening to take all her xanax and kill herself, Dad is so out of control he threatens to kill himself with a knife and needs to be thrown in jail till he sobers up. Granny Hollers isn't talking to Lisa (her daughter) cause she is so messed, both their kids are in jail, and their other kid (tim) is out of state staying away from the all for his own preservation.

I'm sorry to say it, but growing up surrounded by this much addction and messed up parents who have NOTHING, who are currently living in a one room boarding house that Leonard padilla got for them, Misty didn't have a chance.