2010.04.16 Do you think Ron knew what happened?

[suspicious1]

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Right. He made a lot of lethal parenting decisions but I can not believe he didn't love his kids, or that he raised them out of revenge against CS.

BBM
Absolutely. I don't doubt that Ron loved his kids...but you are not going to find pictures of him abusing his kids. As a parent, we don't take those kinds of pictures--we take loving pictures like the ones posted. Just because we see what appears to be a loving family in the picture doesn't mean there was not a darker side. Some things are not what they appear to be.

 

[nomoresorrow]

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Right. He made a lot of lethal parenting decisions but I can not believe he didn't love his kids, or that he raised them out of revenge against CS.

I'm unable to reconcile the two; "lethal parenting decisions" and true love for your child. Ask any parent who has abused and/or killed their own child if they loved the child and they'll tell you that they do/did. Do I think that they (parents who abuse and/or kill) experience/ed an internal emotion toward their child that resembled (feels or felt like) love? Yes, but "real" love? No. Real love is much much more than just an emotion or a feeling. Love, when put into the only language that really matters for/to a child is action. It is the decisions that a parent(s) makes everyday that say to a child, "I love you more than I love myself; more than my own desires." I've grown tired of hearing the same ole -same ole after tragedy strikes; "but I know they loved their child..." Let's start where real change needs to begin - with honesty. Let's admit that when repeated horrendous choices are made by a parent/parents that endanger the life of a child, that parent/those parents did not love their child enough to put their child's safety and well-being first - over their own desires to get high, get laid, play with guns, hang out with questionable individuals that you allow around your child(ren) or individuals you know nothing about, etc. The end results speak for themselves... JMO~

 

[pip]

I think Ron has known all along, because of many of the reasons posted in this thread. I believe he is the main perp. and trying to save his own butt or this case would have been solved by now.

If he doesn't know what happened to Haleigh, yet has been keeping hush due to worries about charges for other illegal activities then that just shows he has way more concern for himself than he ever did for his kids.

If I were concerned about the safety of my child, everything else would seem pretty petty.

Whatever the outcome, Ronald Cummings holds some huge responsibility for what happened to Haleigh.

What crime could Ron and the others they have committed to cause this? Anything less than murder wouldn't make sense. But why be accused of murder of Haleigh if a robbery against thugs was all you did to cause it, for instance. The crime would have to be just as bad, I would think. (Unless they are just scared to death that the gang will go after the rest of them or their family for a robbery only or whatever)
If they murdered a gang boy or more in the process of a drug robbery, gang boys don't call police, they get even. So why wasn't a murder all over the news before Haleigh went missing? The gang didn't want the LE attention, so never told. The person/s is or are probably not even considered missing because the person/s isn't even known about. Undocumented illegal? Many mexican illegals are gangbangers. Some legal gangbanger/criminal who was on parole and LE just think he is on the run ie: absconded but is/are really dead? I think this all goes back to the mexican drug party. When I heard the story, it immediately rang gang to me. I think they all got together and went to rob them of their drugs and money (not knowing they were gangbangers?) and things got bad. The rest is history. I think Timmy got the h=e=double toothpicks out of town asap because he was scared to death. If LE knows, they may not be able to locate any of the gang members because they scrambled or are simply are denying it all. I would sure like to know what follow up LE did after Nay Nay told the story about the mexican drug party. It is interesting too that Misty was overheard at the bus stop saying something about the "shi# being bad and she wasn't going to mess with those guys anymore". The last day Haleigh is seen. If it was Ronalds gun used, he would have wanted it dumped and called Tommy the night Haleigh was taken. He probably also acted like the main guy during the crime so that's why the hit came back to him. JMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No, Ron didn't know anything until he got home from work and found Haleigh missing. I don't think that LE are looking at him either. He has an alibi and LE have checked it out. I don't think that Misty told him anything either....she isn't that dumb.

I don't think they are remotely looking at Ron Cummings. Imo, they are looking right at Tommy Croslin, Joe Overstreet and Misty Croslin.

Imo, they have long known he is not involved in the disappearance and murder of his little daughter.

Not one thing LE has said even hints at Ron being a POI. They brought him to be with the rest of the grieving family members when they disclosed what they told all of them.

And I so agree Bobbi.........one person on this entire earth that Misty was never going to tell what happened to Haleigh was Ron Cummings.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM
Absolutely. I don't doubt that Ron loved his kids...but you are not going to find pictures of him abusing his kids. As a parent, we don't take those kinds of pictures--we take loving pictures like the ones posted. Just because we see what appears to be a loving family in the picture doesn't mean there was not a darker side. Some things are not what they appear to be.

And it certainly never means that all of the lovely happy photos of Ron and Haleigh are anything other than a daddy and daughter who both loved each other deeply. And yes, sometimes things are exactly as they seem.

Every time I think of Haleigh, I remember the photo of her and Ron and their laugh expressions were the same. It will always touch my heart....I could feel the love, pride and happiness in that photo.

Iirc even Crystal said that Haleigh was Ron's heart.

imo

 

[azwriter]

Hi Y'all --- My I'm new here and just wanted to say hello and tell you my belief is that the Cummings and Croslins family trees don't have any branches.

Welcome to Websleuth, Snarky

 

[krowdkat]

I'm unable to reconcile the two; "lethal parenting decisions" and true love for your child. Ask any parent who has abused and/or killed their own child if they loved the child and they'll tell you that they do/did. Do I think that they (parents who abuse and/or kill) experience/ed an internal emotion toward their child that resembled (feels or felt like) love? Yes, but "real" love? No. Real love is much much more than just an emotion or a feeling. Love, when put into the only language that really matters for/to a child is action. It is the decisions that a parent(s) makes everyday that say to a child, "I love you more than I love myself; more than my own desires." I've grown tired of hearing the same ole -same ole after tragedy strikes; "but I know they loved their child..." Let's start where real change needs to begin - with honesty. Let's admit that when repeated horrendous choices are made by a parent/parents that endanger the life of a child, that parent/those parents did not love their child enough to put their child's safety and well-being first - over their own desires to get high, get laid, play with guns, hang out with questionable individuals that you allow around your child(ren) or individuals you know nothing about, etc. The end results speak for themselves... JMO~

Yours is a very poignant post. I agree wholeheartedly with this. The problem is, Ron doesn't love himself. If he did, he wouldn't be a bully. I have never felt like Ron directly killed his daughter. But, indirectly and through his own self-loathing and criminal behavior, he is ultimately responsible. Will he ever realize this? I'm doubtful. I do think he loved Haleigh the best way he knew how, though. This is such a sad story.

 

[mistermissy]

Ron knew.

Haleigh was given some kind of drug, probably Oxy, to get her to sleep because MC was exhaused from her drug/sex binge. The reason RC called home so many times that night is because HC passed out before he left for work, and he was worried she would not survive.

RC eventually gets a hold of TC, JO, and MC, and they hatch a plan to stage a kidnapping of Haleigh.

RC is so worried about the loss of his drugs and freedom, that he forsakes his daughter.
He stops at the convenience store on the way home to for alibi purposes. His demeanor on the 911 call is phony. I believe his anguished, falling to the ground cries are real, because he knows he f'd up.

What seals it for me is the expression on RC's face in the latest video of him being led from the meeting with LE this past week. He does not have the face of a father who has just been told to "prepare for a funeral" for Haleigh, per the latest interview with his attorney. He looks completely composed, as if this is something he has known for a long time. JMO.

 

[suspicious1]

And it certainly never means that all of the lovely happy photos of Ron and Haleigh are anything other than a daddy and daughter who both loved each other deeply. And yes, sometimes things are exactly as they seem.

Every time I think of Haleigh, I remember the photo of her and Ron and their laugh expressions were the same. It will always touch my heart....I could feel the love, pride and happiness in that photo.

Iirc even Crystal said that Haleigh was Ron's heart.

imo

That's the thing, like i stated before-I don't doubt that Ron loved his kids and vice versa..I've never doubted that.

Every time I think about Haleigh----I picture Ron riding in the undercover car,drug dealing, stealing/popping pills. That's what I see.

So looking at those loving pictures of Ron and Haleigh and then seeing Ron live in action drug dealing....it furthers prove my point that things are not always what they appear to be.

jmo though

 

[Homegrown]

The ones of us that voted yes and thinks that Ron was responsible, don't think he murdered his daughter. It's not like I(we) think he came in one day and said I'm going to murder my daughter, today. My thinking was it was not intentional, maybe a slap too hard, back handed too hard, or unintentional overdose. But something happened and a beautful little girl paid the price. Most people in pictures are usually smiling, even infants, this is something we are taught from an early age Smile!
The abused almost always love their abusers. They try to win their love as everyone wants to be loved by their parents most especially the abused one.

 

[krowdkat]

That's the thing, like i stated before-I don't doubt that Ron loved his kids and vice versa..I've never doubted that.

Every time I think about Haleigh----I picture Ron riding in the undercover car,drug dealing, stealing/popping pills. That's what I see.

So looking at those loving pictures of Ron and Haleigh and then seeing Ron live in action drug dealing....it furthers prove my point that things are not always what they appear to be.

jmo though

There's lots of adults that love their children that are incredibly stupid adults. The pulitzer prize winner article about parents letting their kids die in hot cars is a perfect example. It was out last week. I don't believe Ron ever thought Haleigh was in danger. Even if he was doing illegal things, he somehow felt she was safe. Boy-oh-boy was he wrong.

Haleigh's death wasn't an accident, but I don't and haven't ever felt like that was an outcome that Ron ever entertained or was directly responsible for. Indirectly, MOST DEFINITELY. I'm willing to eat crow, though.

 

[Whisperer]

Ron is keeping a secret he knows about JO and himself.

 

[pip]

Ron is keeping a secret he knows about JO and himself.

Could very well be...hmm. How does Tommy end up leading LE to the river though? Do you think Misty knows or not?

 

[Pondering Mind]

The ones of us that voted yes and thinks that Ron was responsible, don't think he murdered his daughter. It's not like I(we) think he came in one day and said I'm going to murder my daughter, today. My thinking was it was not intentional, maybe a slap too hard, back handed too hard, or unintentional overdose. But something happened and a beautful little girl paid the price. Most people in pictures are usually smiling, even infants, this is something we are taught from an early age Smile!
The abused almost always love their abusers. They try to win their love as everyone wants to be loved by their parents most especially the abused one.

That's an excellent post Homegrown! Almost exactly along the lines as to what I believe happened as well, but couldn't spit it out, lol!..not real sure about the OD theory, although I know many are. UNLESS it was on benedryl, I could believe that. I just think very few children, especially of HaLeighs age would actually chew and swallow some of these nasty tasting things.. I have 3 grandchildren right around the same age and I know they would spit them out in a heartbeat, *I think*. Obviously I would never want my theory on that tested, but I just can't imagine them eating it..and to OD, it surely would be more than one, wouldn't you think?

That coupled with the fact that druggies rarely lose track of their drugs, (and they don't like to share) no matter how wasted they are. Might lose track of their kids, but not their drugs..it's like gold to them..precious and never enough. Sad but true imho..

And just as you said, I don't now, nor have I ever believed that Ron killed HaLeigh on purpose or intentionally. THAT would shock me! and it's not that I believe that he is a monster either..I do believe that things can get out of hand very quickly, it happens ALL the time unfortunately.. something went way wrong that night and HaLeigh paid the ultimate price imo.. I don't understand why is it so hard for some to even entertain the idea that Ron could be capable of losing control with HaLeigh? What is it that makes him exempt from that possibility is what I don't understand? Ron and Misty have really given no solid answers imo. Where are all the details of that day and night aside from the few statements that sound so scripted, but vague enough as to not trip up anymore than possible.. Why can't either one of them give a step by step timeline of events for that day, including what HaLeigh talked about when she got home?..what was for dinner? where were the kids while she was cooking? did they have baths? any trouble getting she and Jr to sleep? What beds did they normally sleep in? There's so much more, but Ron doesn't know nuttin'..he was at werk, just ask him..he'll tell you..over and over again. Misty don't know nuttin' much either, except she seen 3..

 

[JSV]

My vote is yes

 

[Pondering Mind]

All that rambling and I forgot to post this link to a clip of NG from Crime Searchers, dated March 16, 2009 with Ron and TN. It seems this is about the time that NG started pressing Ron a little harder..regarding Misty and what she told him happened. To me, Ron has the coldest gray eyes here.. he looks pizzed actually. Anyone else think so? Or am I seeing things that aren't there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83RvM4gXrOU

 

[Pondering Mind]

Hi suspicious! I'm taking your suggestion and posting this link with Ron and TN. I agree it is an eye opener to go back and watch some of these again.

http://www.news4jax.com/video/18684460/index.html

I 'believe' this is the first time we heard from Ron, less than 24 hrs. after HaLeighs disappearance. I had posted this in another thread because it shows Ron's 'mysterious skinned up knuckles' right at the end. The whole video is fascinating to re-watch though.

 

[Whisperer]

How in the world could rc NOT know what happened?

Okay, now rc and JO liked to go to Shell Harbor and rc said he would watch JO throw animals alive into the water for the gators to eat....that he liked to watch them feed....okiedokiethen. WHY IN THE WORLD would this totally disgusting and sickening fact escape rc and his pursuit of JO?

Now think about it. RC has not known misty long. Exactly when did this disgusting, heinous activity occur? hmmm...let's see rc met misty last september, 2008 and Haleigh disppeared Feb 2009, exactly how many times has JO visited his ole buddy, rc?

This would stand out in ANYONE'S mind and would automatically lead the stupidest of people to JO's door yielding a set of handcuffs. In my case it would be a gun Here is the excerpt and link:

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what`s really interesting, Art Harris, is that, according to Texas EquuSearch, Tim Miller, he told me on ISSUES that Ron, Haleigh`s dad, told him that this was the exact location where Joe, the cousin, liked to go fishing. What`s the significance of that?

HARRIS: Well, I walked down to the dock one day with Ronald when I was down there, Jane. And he told me that he and Joe used to go down to the dock, and Joe enjoyed throwing animals out into the river and meat and watching alligators feed on it. Now, I don`t know if that`s a true story or not, but it gives me chills. And it would certainly be somewhat consistent with what Tim Miller told you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that is -- that is probably the most horrifying thing that I`ve heard. First of all, as an animal lover. Secondly, we know that people who abuse animals are capable of killing human beings. We know this statistically.

http://www.studentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1004/15/ijvm.01.html

How could rc NOT put two and two together. The possibility that a psycho walks among them is pretty obvious. Did rc not notice or is he the same? This boggles my mind and upsets me even more. This is very sick stuff. I am scared at what else we will find.

 

[Whisperer]

We now have two people saying rc and JO would go to the dock and according to rc, JO would throw live animals into the water for the alligators.

I guess rc never considered JO for very long as a suspect. But let's not forget that RC himself chopped off a live RAT's head. Now which one is the psycho? That is the game we are going to play now...figure it out. We have proof that RC beheaded an animal, but we haven't established proof of JO doing it except for rc telling the story.

....This case is sick and who is the sickest is what we have to figure out.

Do you think rc knew what happened....hmm. For somebody who has a very high I.Q., according to mama, he is one very stupid man

 

[Concerned Papa]

~Snipped~

"he told me that he and Joe used to go down to the dock, and Joe enjoyed throwing animals out into the river and meat and watching alligators feed on it."

Whisp, I pulled this out of your post above because it clearly illustrates what I believe to be one of many "after the fact" creative, self-serving, statements made by RC and family to misdirect the investigation into what really happened to his daughter.

FIRST OF ALL, Ronald Cummings is telling this tale as if it's another "back in the good ole days me and Joe used to...." episode from a long time association. The reality is that he only knew Joe for a few days. Misty herself said, during her LVA, that Joe was only "down" from Tennessee for 2 weeks!

There's no alligators in Tennessee except in a zoo. Where is someone like Joe supposed to have acquired his penchant for this specific type of deviant behavior? Who seems more likely to have actually related this tale during a "bonding" session, a life long resident with proximity to the St Johns river, or a 19 year old "bumpkin" from Tennessee?

SECONDLY, I'm a resident of Florida with a life long affinity for the great outdoors. I'm no stranger to Florida's many lakes and rivers. We have an alligator season here where permits are issued by the State to harvest the creatures for their prized hides and delicious meat. An alligator hunter typically has a substantial investment in equipment including air boat, spot lights, and bang sticks.

Those who harvest alligators are called hunters for a reason. You do have to HUNT for an alligator. As many as we have down here, the water does not teem with the creatures to the extent that a couple of "good ole boys just hanging around" could casually toss a chicken leg from Publix or a kitten from Pets Mart into the water for a show. If it was that easy the hunters damn sure wouldn't need thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

IMO, this entire Joe/dock/alligator story is NO different from Ronald Cummings' tale of someone using a crowbar to smash in the back door of the trailer. There were no marks on the door and Joe don't know chit about no alligators.