2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

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Aedrys I so often agree with you, but the bolded part... eh.. she has made poor choices in a lot of parts of her life, but she also made the choice to raise Kyron and baby K as a SAHM, which led to no outside job, which led to less money than Kaine. Without getting into the discussion about SAHM-hood, I just want to interject that she was doing something valuable for the family and saving the cost of daycare (which can sometimes equal a working salary) besides. I mean an innocent Terri that is (clearly if she's guilty I can hardly paint her as a valuable family asset, but then the alimony discussion will be moot anyway...). It's different (IMO) than being willfully unemployed without contributing ANYthing to the family...

I wasn't talking about being a SAHM in particular. After I wrote that, I knew someone was going to point that out. I should have changed it. Choosing to be a SAHM is not a bad choice or low ambition in life. What I am saying is that before that, she didn't hold any job for long, put her career in jeapardy by getting a DUI, and according to Kaine, was spending money like water. And now her own lawyer says she's penniless. So no checking or savings account in her name? No kind of monetary assets except that she was married to Kaine? And where are the ones we have heard about, like the lawsuit settlements she got?

I know some SAHM's myself. I wish I could afford to be one when the time comes, but I know that won't happen. Anyway, one in particular saves every penny and stretches every dollar. She knows her husband works very hard for that money and respects him for it by not needlessly spending it on junk. I just don't feel sorry for someone who throws away their husband's hard earned money. SAHM or not, she has seemingly done nothing to save any money for herself, or to provide for her kids, or have any plan in place other than sponging off of Kaine and living off of his money in some fashion or form. Honestly, I don't think she became a SAHM out of the goodness of her heart and her love for children. I have a lot of respect for women who are SAHM's for those reasons. I think she became a SAHM so she wouldn't have to work and could spend someone else's money, mostly on herself. All IMO.

ETA: And in today's economy, if one chooses to be a SAHM, they also have to think about what would happen if the wage earner dies or loses their job. It's simply horrific to be a SAHM in this day and time and think that the wage earner's money is going to last forever and never plan financially for any setback or tragedy.
 
Aedrys I so often agree with you, but the bolded part... eh.. she has made poor choices in a lot of parts of her life, but she also made the choice to raise Kyron and baby K as a SAHM, which led to no outside job, which led to less money than Kaine. Without getting into the discussion about SAHM-hood, I just want to interject that she was doing something valuable for the family and saving the cost of daycare (which can sometimes equal a working salary) besides. I mean an innocent Terri that is (clearly if she's guilty I can hardly paint her as a valuable family asset, but then the alimony discussion will be moot anyway...). It's different (IMO) than being willfully unemployed without contributing ANYthing to the family...

IMO it does not appear to be true that she was a stay at home mom for Kyron most of the time by choice. Her SAHM:ness has been greatly exaggerated IMO.

She may have been a SAHM for baby K but according to this article Kyron was in daycare as soon as he moved in with Terri and Kaine and Terri was working on and off throughout her stint as the supposed primary caretaker and SAHM of Kyron. There may or may not have been times when he wasn't in daycare and she wasn't working but the impression I get is that it's at least partly because her career didn't take off like she wanted to and she didn't have the employment opportunities she wanted to, not just because she made the selfless choice to stay at home to take care of him.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html


In 2004, when Desiree moved to Canada to seek medical treatment, Kaine gained custody of his son. He said he was primary caretaker, dropping Kyron off at day care and picking him up.

In 2003, Terri earned a master's of art education from Pacific University in Forest Grove and was an on-call teacher for the Hillsboro School District, remaining available as a sub until 2006.

Unable to land a teaching job, she returned to restaurant work, taking a job as assistant manager at Red Robin in Sherwood, where she worked between December 2005 and August 2006.

About the same time, [2007] Terri was working as an assistant manager at Newport Bay restaurant in Washington Square.
 
I wasn't talking about being SAHM. After I wrote that, I knew someone was going to point that out. I should have changed it. Choosing to be a SAHM is not a bad choice or low ambition in life. What I am saying is that before that, she didn't hold any job for long, put her career in jeapardy by getting a DUI, and according to Kaine, was spending money like water. And now her own lawyer says she's penniless. So no checking or savings account in her name? No kind of monetary assets except that she was married to Kaine?

I know some SAHM's myself. I wish I could afford to be one when the time comes, but I know that won't happen. Anyway, one in particular saves every penny and stretches every dollar. She knows her husband works very hard for that money and respects him for it by not needlessly spending it on junk. I just don't feel sorry for someone who throws away their husband's hard earned money. SAHM or not, she has seemingly done nothing to save any money for herself, or to provide for her kids, or have any plan in place other than sponging off of Kaine and living off of his money in some fashion or form. Honestly, I don't think she became a SAHM out of the goodness of her heart and her love for children. I think she became a SAHM so she wouldn't have to work and could spend someone else's money. All IMO.

Ahh, I see, I'm sorry for misinterpreting. :) I agree that arriving in your place having had personal savings and the past opportunity to work, then living in a fairly good income household where you were able to contribute without an outside job, of course she could be expected to still have some personal savings.

Also agree about the spending money like water thing - as the wife of a spendy man ... okay, I won't go there. hee!
 
IMO it does not appear to be true that she was a stay at home mom for Kyron most of the time by choice. Her SAHM:ness has been greatly exaggerated IMO.

She may have been a SAHM for baby K but according to this article Kyron was in daycare as soon as he moved in with Terri and Kaine and Terri was working on and off throughout her stint as the supposed primary caretaker and SAHM of Kyron. There may or may not have been times when he wasn't in daycare and she wasn't working but the impression I get is that it's at least partly because her career didn't take off like she wanted to and she didn't have the employment opportunities she wanted to, not just because she made the selfless choice to stay at home to take care of him.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

Oh, I'm not sure I'd consider it selfless anyway... I mean working outside the home isn't selfless, either, it's just what one chooses given the opportunity.
 
Oh, I'm not sure I'd consider it selfless anyway... I mean working outside the home isn't selfless, either, it's just what one chooses given the opportunity.

Right, sometimes you just have to do what you consider the best for the family.

In any case it's not true that she had no income during her and Kaine's relationship because she had some sources of income from her jobs.
 
IMO it does not appear to be true that she was a stay at home mom for Kyron most of the time by choice. Her SAHM:ness has been greatly exaggerated IMO.

She may have been a SAHM for baby K but according to this article Kyron was in daycare as soon as he moved in with Terri and Kaine and Terri was working on and off throughout her stint as the supposed primary caretaker and SAHM of Kyron. There may or may not have been times when he wasn't in daycare and she wasn't working but the impression I get is that it's at least partly because her career didn't take off like she wanted to and she didn't have the employment opportunities she wanted to, not just because she made the selfless choice to stay at home to take care of him.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

That states that Kaine said he was the primary caregiver; not Terri.
 
That states that Kaine said he was the primary caregiver; not Terri.

Yes, that was one of the reasons why I included the quote.

The article doesn't say how much work Terri had with her subbing jobs during this period of time but I wonder if it might have been rather regular if they usually had Kyron in daycare and Kaine drop Kyron to daycare and pick him up. If she was at home as a SAHM most of the time it might have made more sense for them to keep the boy home altogether or for her to take care of the transport to and from daycare so that Kyron wouldn't have to spend whole work days in daycare, cheaper and easier for him.

But maybe he was in daycare close to his father's workplace and it made sense logistically for Kaine to pick Kyron up, or he just wanted to because he was Kyron's father. There could even have been some developmental issue that made a doctor recommend daycare. Sometimes they do if there is a language delay etc. (Not that we've heard that Kyron did).

I've got no idea really, I'm just conjecturing.
 
I was demonstrating that this statement of yours "Terri and Kaine and Terri was working on and off throughout her stint as the supposed primary caretaker...." is not correct, in that Kaine was the primary caretaker. There is no supposed Terri was the primary caretaker here. Kaine was.

But that addresses only the immediate time after Kyron first moved in with his father. I don't know how their relationship worked and how they determined where Kyron would be during the day. He seemed well loved and cared for.
 
I was demonstrating that this statement of yours "Terri and Kaine and Terri was working on and off throughout her stint as the supposed primary caretaker...." is not correct, in that Kaine was the primary caretaker. There is no supposed Terri was the primary caretaker here. Kaine was.

But that addresses only the immediate time after Kyron first moved in with his father. I don't know how their relationship worked and how they determined where Kyron would be during the day. He seemed well loved and cared for.

I was referring to the idea exemplified in the post that I had quoted. It was being discussed that Terri had "made the
choice to raise Kyron and baby K as a SAHM". This sort of statement IMO usually implies the assumption of being the primary caretaker, unless there are several stay at home parents. Also, IIRC several MSM articles have stated something like she has raised Kyron from since he was three days old or that she gave up her career to take care of him (paraphrased) which gives off primary caretaker vibes to me.

I did not intend my post to imply anything one way or another about Kyron's welfare and the emotional climate he was being raised in by his parents.
 
I think the issue here on WS is that everyone is combing divorce/custody with possible criminal. They are completely separate things legally at this point in time.

The abatement is not to keep TH from speaking in Court or going public, it is because, legally in a CUSTODY issue, she has no job, no home, nothing. This is because of the possible criminal issues, that are legally non-existant. Therefore, her lawyer asked for a quickie divorce but allowing time for her to try to find employment (not possible due to the trash-and-dash), and to find housing (not possible for same).

Imagine your ex whatever tried to take your child and a friend agreed to say what a bit**, I'll say she did this. You can get it all. While you have no income, no way to get any b/c someone is playing legally dirty, and that person is okay with getting what they want. You get nothing. Nor does your child.

All hearsay, will be sorted. However, Kaine nor Terry wants to have a home visit, a psychologist visit, a Judge review finances and actions. NEITHER, Baby K would have been taken away from either in an astute city with no legal connections. Neither is capable of showing what needs to be shown for complete custody. Sorry, been there, loads of times, and from what we know about each, Baby K would be taken away. It is that simple.

Divorce and criminal combined is a slick trick, it will be handled appropriately, no matter how long it takes.

The legal system, when fair, is just that. Fair.

The danged 350K is another joke, and if you have not read, she just said COSTS. Perhaps that is what the kind attorney said it would normally be if she were paying, and it it comes to that. She never said PAID. I like Houze, I like Bunch. They stand for what we all should in America.
 
I think the issue here on WS is that everyone is combing divorce/custody with possible criminal. They are completely separate things legally at this point in time.

The abatement is not to keep TH from speaking in Court or going public, it is because, legally in a CUSTODY issue, she has no job, no home, nothing. This is because of the possible criminal issues, that are legally non-existant. Therefore, her lawyer asked for a quickie divorce but allowing time for her to try to find employment (not possible due to the trash-and-dash), and to find housing (not possible for same).

Imagine your ex whatever tried to take your child and a friend agreed to say what a bit**, I'll say she did this. You can get it all. While you have no income, no way to get any b/c someone is playing legally dirty, and that person is okay with getting what they want. You get nothing. Nor does your child.

All hearsay, will be sorted. However, Kaine nor Terry wants to have a home visit, a psychologist visit, a Judge review finances and actions. NEITHER, Baby K would have been taken away from either in an astute city with no legal connections. Neither is capable of showing what needs to be shown for complete custody. Sorry, been there, loads of times, and from what we know about each, Baby K would be taken away. It is that simple.

Divorce and criminal combined is a slick trick, it will be handled appropriately, no matter how long it takes.

The legal system, when fair, is just that. Fair.

The danged 350K is another joke, and if you have not read, she just said COSTS. Perhaps that is what the kind attorney said it would normally be if she were paying. She never said PAID. I like Houze, I like Bunch. They stand for what we all should in America.

Merc, that is just not correct. The abatement has absolutely nothing to do with her current position with no house, etc. Dissolution actions act to remedy those things. For example, poverty cannot play a part in a child custody decision if the other party has the ability to pay support. Child support orders would act to remedy that situation.
Property is liquidated and divided in a disso, attorney's fees awards are made, etc. Orders are issued to leave both parties in as equal position as possible, in general. The only reason for the abatement is that TH fears incriminating herself in some way during the disso process, or to otherwise prejudice herself publicly as details of the disso case leak out.
If the reasons you cited for the abatement were cited by TH's attorneys, their abatement motion would get denied in two seconds.

ETA I have no idea what you are talking about, with respect, that baby K would be taken away from both parents. Where did you get that idea? I'm sorry to be stupid but I'm just not following this line of thought. Plus, how do you know neither party wants a home visit, psych eval, etc.? I can see why TH may not want a psych eval, due to not wanting anymore publicity and the fear of something being leaked but I don't know why Kaine wouldn't want one. The only thing he has to lose is one more kid.

One more thing: the allegations in the RO are the same allegations in possible criminal cases against TH. The civil and criminal are sure as heck overlapping here, despite being separate cases, because the underlying issues in the potential criminal case and in aspects of the civil case, are identical. That is the whole reason TH cannot answer the RO allegations and wants to abate the disso.
 
Merc, that is just not correct. The abatement has absolutely nothing to do with her current position with no house, etc. Dissolution actions act to remedy those things. For example, poverty cannot play a part in a child custody decision if the other party has the ability to pay support. Child support orders would act to remedy that situation.
Property is liquidated and divided in a disso, attorney's fees awards are made, etc. Orders are issued to leave both parties in as equal position as possible, in general. The only reason for the abatement is that TH fears incriminating herself in some way during the disso process, or to otherwise prejudice herself publicly as details of the disso case leak out.
If the reasons you cited for the abatement were cited by TH's attorneys, their abatement motion would get denied in two seconds.

Thank you, but I did not mean it was about property.
 
Thank you, but I did not mean it was about property.


Hey, I edited my last post to add even more in response to your post!
Okay, what I am trying to explain to you is that TH's current financial and housing status would not play a part in general in a custody determination and would definitely NOT be grounds for an abatement, because the divorce proceedings would act to restore her to a better position than she is in now. Property would be divided. She could use that to get a new place. Support orders would be issued. She could use that to support Baby K. A judge cannot based a child custody determination, in a divorce, on the fact that one party has more resources than the other. Instead, the judge, if he or she felt that the parent that was less well off would make a better primary parent, would issue support orders and other orders that would act to equalize the playing field and allow the "poorer" parent to be able to provide for their child. Does that make sense?
TH did not avoid the RO allegations nor does she want to abate the disso because she feels like she is not in a good position to get any custodial time. That would not be valid grounds for an abatement anyhow. She did both, very clearly, because she has been advised that she cannot risk incriminating herself criminally, in the civil case. That's it. There is nothing more to it and it is sound advice.
 
Hey, I edited my last post to add even more in response to your post!
Okay, what I am trying to explain to you is that TH's current financial and housing status would not play a part in general in a custody determination and would definitely NOT be grounds for an abatement, because the divorce proceedings would act to restore her to a better position than she is in now. Property would be divided. She could use that to get a new place. Support orders would be issued. She could use that to support Baby K. A judge cannot based a child custody determination, in a divorce, on the fact that one party has more resources than the other. Instead, the judge, if he or she felt that the parent that was less well off would make a better primary parent, would issue support orders and other orders that would act to equalize the playing field and allow the "poorer" parent to be able to provide for their child. Does that make sense?
TH did not avoid the RO allegations nor does she want to abate the disso because she feels like she is not in a good position to get any custodial time. That would not be valid grounds for an abatement anyhow. She did both, very clearly, because she has been advised that she cannot risk incriminating herself criminally, in the civil case. That's it. There is nothing more to it and it is sound advice.

Okay, I understand now.

I was trying to say that the psych and home study is not good for either. Abatement would be good for both sides.

That adding not proven criminal issues in order to push "whatever" agenda is not good for either side. Both have to have both done (pscych eval and home study). I could care less about the money, lol

I am not good at explaining, too many years of listening to everyone go through hours of talking, when I at first said some straight up answer. They would not take it until we talked through every tiny nothing. Sigh. But I understand why you misunderstood me, please, always tell me!
 
Okay, I understand now.

I was trying to say that the psych and home study is not good for either. Abatement would be good for both sides.

That adding not proven criminal issues in order to push "whatever" agenda is not good for either side. Both have to have both done (pscych eval and home study). I could care less about the money, lol

I am not good at explaining, too many years of listening to everyone go through hours of talking, when I at first said some straight up answer. They would not take it until we talked through every tiny nothing. Sigh. But I understand why you misunderstood me, please, always tell me!

:blowkiss::blowkiss:
 
Yes, that was one of the reasons why I included the quote.

The article doesn't say how much work Terri had with her subbing jobs during this period of time but I wonder if it might have been rather regular if they usually had Kyron in daycare and Kaine drop Kyron to daycare and pick him up. If she was at home as a SAHM most of the time it might have made more sense for them to keep the boy home altogether or for her to take care of the transport to and from daycare so that Kyron wouldn't have to spend whole work days in daycare, cheaper and easier for him.

But maybe he was in daycare close to his father's workplace and it made sense logistically for Kaine to pick Kyron up, or he just wanted to because he was Kyron's father. There could even have been some developmental issue that made a doctor recommend daycare. Sometimes they do if there is a language delay etc. (Not that we've heard that Kyron did).

I've got no idea really, I'm just conjecturing.

If she was in the care of a physician for PPD, the physician may have stated that Kyron needed to be in full time care away from the home. This happened recently to someone very close to me. First the physician requested the mother have someone in the home with her whenever the baby was present. When her condition did not improve, the physician stated that the baby needed to be in full-time care OUTSIDE the home and away from the mother.

Please take my word for it; I moved my life and home to BE that full-time caretaker.
 
If she was in the care of a physician for PPD, the physician may have stated that Kyron needed to be in full time care away from the home. This happened recently to someone very close to me. First the physician requested the mother have someone in the home with her whenever the baby was present. When her condition did not improve, the physician stated that the baby needed to be in full-time care OUTSIDE the home and away from the mother.

Please take my word for it; I moved my life and home to BE that full-time caretaker.

Kyron was already spending a considerable part of his day at school outside the home anyway when Terri would have been diagnosed with the PPD and I haven't seen anything to suggest the baby was in daycare but you're absolutely right, the doctors might make some recommendations for the care of the children of depressed mothers.
 
I was demonstrating that this statement of yours "Terri and Kaine and Terri was working on and off throughout her stint as the supposed primary caretaker...." is not correct, in that Kaine was the primary caretaker. There is no supposed Terri was the primary caretaker here. Kaine was.

But that addresses only the immediate time after Kyron first moved in with his father. I don't know how their relationship worked and how they determined where Kyron would be during the day. He seemed well loved and cared for.

Debs, I agree with you and am springboarding off your post.

My recollection of what I've read before is that Kyron went to live with Kaine when his bio mom became so ill that she wound up in Canada having medical treatments. At that point, Kaine and Terri weren't living together, so Kaine was the one who put Kyron into day care.

I don't recall exactly when they moved in together. But considering that DY originally got a restraining order against Kaine, and she also had custody of Kyron, suddenly having Kyron need full-time care was something added to the relationship between Terri & Kaine. If so, she deserves credit for stepping up and becoming the full-time (not weekend visiting) "mom" style caregiver.

It also appears as though she worked to complete two degrees, and worked at various jobs at various times. And when she wasn't working, she was, according to various accounts, volunteering and active with Kyron's classroom and school.

As for her being a SAHM, we don't know if that's what she and Kaine chose, do we? With Kyron and then a new baby, maybe that was his choice, or hers, or theirs.

It seems like TH got to take care of Kaine's child, Kaine's house (earlier accounts say that he put only his name on the house), provide cleaning, cooking, errand, and child volunteering services 24/7, occasionally got to drive his truck, and as of right now, he indeed has everything. We don't even know if the Mustang was paid for, if it was in her name, etc--but I do recall thatwWhen she left the former marital home (under duress) there was a photo of the Mustang left in the yard.

I'm an old school feminist, one of those who broke barriers and helped change things so that now younger women routinely decide if they want to be lawyers or astronauts or SAHMs or--whatever. I came up in the time when classified ads said "jobs for men" and "jobs for women". I fought for my professionals status, and achived many "firsts"--as did many of my friends.

But I have never had disdain for SAHMs. What I've always believed is that both women and men should have choices in their lives not dictated by, nor compensation level dictated by, their gender. If she's a high-powered attorney and he stays at home with the kids/house and occasionally paints or whatever, and it works for them, that's fine by me.

I think that being a SAHP (stay at home parent) has got to be one of the toughest jobs around. You don't get promotions, you don't get a nice new office, you don't get awards and plaques, you can't quit, and you can't walk out of the "office" to have a complete vacation--not if you take the kids. And even if you don't, someone has to get them ready for whoever is taking care of them.

Punishing a SAHM financially because she (or whoops, parent/he) wasn't working outside the home somehow just isn't fair to me. I think that SAHP work has real value--and I also came up in the time when there were far too many "displaced homemakers" (the euphemism then) who fulfilled their part of a marital bargain only to be replaced by a younger model later. And their husbands had the money, the assets, and oh yes--she had no real job skills. In fact, at one point I taught a classroom of displaced homemakers--basic computer skills. At one point in FL divorce/community property laws underwent a major change because so many military men moved their families to FL, replaced wifey, and kept their retirement, the pension, the everything, and the woman who'd lived the military life and provided the home support had no skills and no assets.

I'm a career woman, by choice. But that doesn't mean that I disrespected or saw no financial value in what other women did when they were SAHMs and, in my circles, also active community volunteers (which also has great value, and I'm one too).

I just hate hearing support for an idea that was, IMHO, wrong and disrespectful even in the 50's--that the SAHM isn't contributing in a manner that deserves financial consideration. A SAHM should not have to be, totally financially vulnerable should the marriage go sour.

From all accounts, Kyron appeared well cared for. Even DY said that TH provided his needs. Until we know for sure whether or not TH did something to that child, it's not fair, IMHO, to decide that she should be punished financially by having no claim on any marital assets.

Of course, if she's guilty and winds up in prison, then that resolves any issues over marital assets.

JMO, Moo, Moo, all that.
 
Even on this thread, all of us as posters are talking about constitutional rights and merging the divorce and the criminal cases....She has a right not to incriminate herself, she has a right to plead the 5th...

Not necessarily in the civil action of divorce. I think the abatement does irreparable harm to Kaine in that he is not going to be granted a divorce within the time frames allowed for by state.

Why should his quest for divorce be treated differently from anyone elses? He has a right to sever his connection from Terri if he chooses. She has the same right. To ask the court to mitigate this because she is afraid to answer pertinent questions is inconceivable to me. It is akin to Casey Anthony refusing to answer questions during the nanny slander suit. The judge did not allow her to plead the 5th. She was in contempt for not answering the interrogatories...

It sucks that TH is going to be forced to answer questions she does not want to answer, but she has to do it. If she has nothing to fear, this would not be a big deal. I dont have to play by the "innocent until proven guilty" card here because this is simply the court of public opinion....but I also believe that practically speaking she has not put enough if any evidence on the table for LE to be able to clear her as a focus of this investigation. The ball is in HER court to do that.

As far as the civil matter is concerned, it should proceed. JMVHO.
 
There are so many interviews out and it's making my head spin but did anyone catch today's Oregonian that says they discovered TH's parents refinanced their home. So if that is the source of the payment to Houze, why wouldn't they have just said so from the beginning? Why make it into a court case? I'm baffled! :confused:

From the article: "On Friday, The Oregonian learned that Terri Horman's parents recently refinanced their home with a $165,450 mortgage, paying off the previous mortgage of $86,000. The deed of trust was filed Aug. 17 in Douglas County.

Neither Houze nor Terri Horman's parents could be reached for comment Friday about money"

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/kyron-horman.html
 
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