2010.07.03 Sheriff confirms Kyron last seen *inside* school

[CaringCitizen]

~snipped out image

That's hilarious. That's how it was looking in my head and is why I eventually gave up on trying to figure out precisely which stairways were used and where everyone must have been standing, where they parted ways, if and where the "Goodbye" exchange happened, why the 2 stairways in the first place, etc.

I couldn't even understand from the floor plans where the actual stairs were, where they led to, etc. I couldn't get anything to match up.

I think separating from Kyron was intentional - different stairwells and all. I think Terri instructed him to meet her at the truck (perhaps saying "we left some paperwork for your teacher that you need", for example).

That would mean they weren't necessarily seen together going to the truck but they met there and off they went.

To further this though, I do believe that questionnaires likely came back that jogged some memories; I think it is highly likely that one or more people said in their response, that they do recall seeing a red-haired woman already in or getting into a white truck with a child - but didn't think anything of it at the time.

I think this or these sightings were probably integral to the 2nd polygraph test.

Just my opinions.

...

 

[just]

Just a thought...forgive if it's already been discussed, this is a busy board! I have this theory on the whole school exit thing (and if there is a theories thread that this should go under, please move it, but...)

1) TH planned this out (I used to think it was an accident but I no longer do)
2) She told the teacher about an appointment to create an alibi of sorts, in that she may have IMO told the teacher "Kyron has a doctor's appointment" knowing full well she gave her paperwork for a week later but giving her some time because they would think Kyron was with her that DAY for an appointment.

So then when the LE asks her about it, she can say 'well sure I told her he had a doctor's appointment, but I meant NEXT WEEK" and she had the paperwork to 'prove' what she said.

"Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.

Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day. Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

3) The classmate saw the SM leave the school alone because he did see SM leave alone. She simply told Kyron "Meet me around the side after you look at the electrical ______" and picked him up, or she had told him earlier, "Go to the car and I'll be right there" and he went and jumped in and waited.

I believe IMO there HAVE been sightings after the second round of questionnaires and polygraph test that Kyron was seen running to the car, or in the car as it drove away, or something (this is PURELY speculative but would explain why DY and KH have really done an about face) but the LE isn't telling us and letting her spin her lies as much as she wants.

4) Whatever she did to that boy at this point, I have no idea but pray it's a balloon boy thing.

5) She thought she had all her bases covered by a) taking a picture of him, being seen with him and leaving 'alone' w/o him. Then, to go to the bus and act surprised was part of the plan because people would think anyone guilty wouldn't come back home, act relatively normal and even show up at the bus stop.

Whew - that's a bit long-winded to the SM seen in the school and the last one to see Kyron, but I think it's pretty logical. I just pray for this little boy's safe return.

 

[Donjeta]

This is one I do not understand.


"And she (sub brought in to help with science fair) was like...oh no, where's Kyron, there's only five. And Ms. P's like, um, it's alright, calm down, calm down, he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water. She's like, alright I'm gonna leave, and she left." KOIN (6/11)


Why did the sub know about Kyron and why did the teacher think he was there that day?

Why was the sub so worked up about Kyron? Had he been with her?

If Kyron was there when the groups started touring she would presumably know because he was in her group.

If not... Hmm, that's tricky. Let's see. The subs were actually parent chaperones, weren't they? So if it's someone who frequently volunteers at Skyline she might know Kyron and Terri well enough to recognize them in the morning or know the whole class well enough to know who is missing. If not, maybe she had introduced herself to the people in the classroom setting their things up or been given a list of names who were supposed to be in her group and one was not accounted for. I've seen a photo of his desk somewhere and there was "Kyron" printed on it so she might even have just noticed a desk with a science project but no corresponding child.

The teacher may have seen Terri and Kyron there earlier that morning as well and it would be a reasonable assumption that the child stays at school and does not disappear without notice. She might also have noticed Kyron's things there on his desk and inferred that he must have brought them.

Dunno... the exchange sounds to me like they'd seen Kyron sometime that morning because there seems to be an implied expectation that he has been spotted at school and is now just temporarily misplaced. Otherwise they would perhaps have wondered if he's home sick, for instance.

 

[RandomThoughts]

The stairwell thing makes me crazy. Here is a diagram of how it looks in my head:

I know this isn't funny, but that's EXACTLY what the whole case looks like to me after giving my 16 year old her first driving lesson today. :crazy:

 

[Donjeta]

I was thinking that there was a third floor because I thought his little friend told him he was going upstairs to see the electric one.

Did he say which floor they were on when they had that conversation?

 

[shelbar53]

what specifically made the sheriff call the FBI within 3 hours? Is it routine to call the FBI 3 hours after a child goes missing? Was it the conflicting Drs excuse stories that sent up a red flag? Was it Teri's behavior...as in, "you can't fake grief and terror.

 

[Nana46]

And now we are all right back here at the beginning..........still wondering who is on first base (Abbott and Costello routine.)

 

[Astrella613]

Did he say which floor they were on when they had that conversation?

Sounds like they were near their classroom. Child doesn't say upstairs here but I think he did in the video. I will have to look.

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

 

[fran]

There's two things on this case that have been bugging me.

1. The neighbor seeing the 'white pu' at about 3:00pm that day and then again 2a.m. later that night, next morning.

2. Gate's statement and Kyron's classmate's statement: http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.htmlJason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

Txxxxx Pxxxx, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.' I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Txxxxx said. "He never did make it back to class."


1. Do we know that TH was at home at 3:00PM.? Her husband was home so he should be able to confirm that. She posted on FaceBook at 1:30 or so, but did she leave again? IF she was home, it may have been someone else or is just a redherring.............????????????

2. This child's statement made it sound like the last time he saw Kyron was just as the stepmom was leaving, the article says 'at about the same time.' What was this 'ELECTRIC' science project? Have they confirmed there was an 'ELECTRIC' science project? and IF there was, was Kyron seen there? IF there was "NO ELECTRIC SCIENCE PROJECT,' what was Kyron talking about?
Did someone offer to show him one? Someone not yet connected to Kyron?



I'm just bringing this up because I know how easy it is to trick innocent children. We used to live in a very small town on the Oregon coast. One day my 12 yo daughter was walking back to jr high in the middle of the day, alone, (she worked with kids at a preschool for one period a day). Anyway, this older gentleman stopped and asked her about a church. She explained to him where a couple of different churchs were and he thanked her and asked her if he could give her a lift over to the school. She said no thanks and went on her way. She did not report this and didn't tell me for a couple of months. This ehhh.............gentleman..............was caught assaulting another child.

See, she didn't think anything of it because he was asking about churches. He was a 'good person,' NOT.....

Anyway, what if someone offered to show Kyron a science project somewhere ELSE in the school (maybe hidden)? It was in the school setting, it could have been someone he knew or had seen around, or gave him a false sense of ease.

Just fwiw,
fran

PS>...I know TH has LE suspicious, but she may be hiding something that is totally unrelated. fran

 

[fran]

what specifically made the sheriff call the FBI within 3 hours? Is it routine to call the FBI 3 hours after a child goes missing? Was it the conflicting Drs excuse stories that sent up a red flag? Was it Teri's behavior...as in, "you can't fake grief and terror.

I think it may be that because the child was last seen at school and disappeared without a trace, their immediate suspicion was 'kidnapping,' which I believe falls under the jurisdiction of the FBI.

The parents did say he wasn't the type to wander away, so their thought was someone led him away, ie kidnapping.

JMHO
fran

 

[Aedrys]

Just a thought...forgive if it's already been discussed, this is a busy board! I have this theory on the whole school exit thing (and if there is a theories thread that this should go under, please move it, but...)

1) TH planned this out (I used to think it was an accident but I no longer do)
2) She told the teacher about an appointment to create an alibi of sorts, in that she may have IMO told the teacher "Kyron has a doctor's appointment" knowing full well she gave her paperwork for a week later but giving her some time because they would think Kyron was with her that DAY for an appointment.

So then when the LE asks her about it, she can say 'well sure I told her he had a doctor's appointment, but I meant NEXT WEEK" and she had the paperwork to 'prove' what she said.

"Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.

Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day. Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

3) The classmate saw the SM leave the school alone because he did see SM leave alone. She simply told Kyron "Meet me around the side after you look at the electrical ______" and picked him up, or she had told him earlier, "Go to the car and I'll be right there" and he went and jumped in and waited.

I believe IMO there HAVE been sightings after the second round of questionnaires and polygraph test that Kyron was seen running to the car, or in the car as it drove away, or something (this is PURELY speculative but would explain why DY and KH have really done an about face) but the LE isn't telling us and letting her spin her lies as much as she wants.

4) Whatever she did to that boy at this point, I have no idea but pray it's a balloon boy thing.

5) She thought she had all her bases covered by a) taking a picture of him, being seen with him and leaving 'alone' w/o him. Then, to go to the bus and act surprised was part of the plan because people would think anyone guilty wouldn't come back home, act relatively normal and even show up at the bus stop.

Whew - that's a bit long-winded to the SM seen in the school and the last one to see Kyron, but I think it's pretty logical. I just pray for this little boy's safe return.

I think you are on to something. What if the problem is that because of the questionnaires, they now know that both left the school, but not together? So they know that both left, but can't place the both of them together outside of the school? Maybe no one saw Kyron in the parking lot, only Kyron inside of that school, and maybe someone saw the stepmom get into her truck alone? So it's like he left the school but vanished into thin air? That might be the only thing keeping them from arresting TH. They have all the suspicion in the world EXCEPT Kyron with her outside of the school.

I also think that teachers thought Kyron was there because his things were in his chair. I kept wondering why they'd just assume he was getting a drink of water or was in the bathroom, and I forgot his stuff was in his chair. I think that's why they weren't worried. They figured he had to be there because his stuff was in his chair. I don't think TH told them anything. I think they just assumed he was there somewhere and TH was lucky they weren't more suspicious of Kyron's whereabouts.

 

[Nana46]

To Fran: I read somewhere in the last day or two that KH and TH both met the schoolbus....someone on here reported about them calling the school when he did not get off the bus...but a later report I read said the bus driver called from the bus....called back to the school.......so that put TH and KH at the bus around 3 or whenever it arrives at their house/bus stop/ whatever.

 

[txsvicki]

I didn't realize until reading the first page that Kyron's friend said that the teacher left after she was informed by the sub that Kyron wasn't with the group. Wonder where the teacher went. LE may have discounted the boy's statments, but suppose the sub could verify that part.

 

[CaringCitizen]

If Tr said he saw Kyron and spoke with him after Terri left, are we to believe he lied or is mistaken? Because if that is the truth, then Terri is not the last person to see him. What are we to make of this? No one saw them leave together, and I am beginning to believe that is true. The comment that he was going to see the "cool electric project" gives me pause. Who brought Tr to school that day? Were they still around when Tr saw Kyron?

There are lots of oddities around this topic alone and wish there was a specific thread on it, actually.

To the specific thing you are asking though, yes, TP did say he saw Kyron and they talked about the cool electric project; But only in the first few days of news reports was the time of 9am included. After a few days, LE/media went back to saying Terri was the last to see him - at around 8:45am and then almost completely dropped any and all references to the TP interview and times.

There was one thread awhile back that addressed one small portion of this and can be found here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106889"]The Science Fair-IB Expo and the Electric Project - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

...

But I wonder if a mod could start a thread on a more general basis regarding this topic:

Why did TP's grandmother allow the interview even against LE and FBI guidance? Why did TP not realize Kyron was missing until later that night even though he allegedly saw Kyron at 9am and never again that day, including on the bus - they are Sheltered Nook neighbors & best friends and ride the same bus! Why did early reports say Terri last saw Kyron at 8:45am but TP saw him at 9am? Why did this topic suddenly vanish from the news and LE went back to saying Terri was the last to see him at 8:45am? Was TP's family trying to help Terri? Or not? Is this too out of bounds to discuss? I understand, if so.

...

 

[Jaxson]

But then she went back down the stairs to exit, which I am assuming is on the first floor. Just trying to get it to make sense in my mind.

I think the school is like a split level house so that would leave half basement, half above ground and that makes the entrance/exits at half way also. I believe a local told us about the way it is built awhile back and so the '2nd' floor is also considered the main floor (which is where his room is).

 

[Curious Me]

what specifically made the sheriff call the FBI within 3 hours? Is it routine to call the FBI 3 hours after a child goes missing? Was it the conflicting Drs excuse stories that sent up a red flag? Was it Teri's behavior...as in, "you can't fake grief and terror.

Your questions are interesting. I wonder why LE called in the FBI so fast. Do they always do that if it looks like a kidnapping? TH's story must have showed inconsistencies right away. She had the SF pic, but the dr's excuse stories just seemed too conincidental, I'd imagine.

It would take awhile to look into the SF pic, the FB posting of it, the cell phone pings, their schedules that day, etc., I'd have to guess that it was indeed TH behavior that made them call in help.

Forgive me for saying this but maybe she's trying to pull a Misty on LE.

 

[Jaxson]

I didn't realize until reading the first page that Kyron's friend said that the teacher left after she was informed by the sub that Kyron wasn't with the group. Wonder where the teacher went. LE may have discounted the boy's statments, but suppose the sub could verify that part.

The teacher didn't leave..the 'sub' (who was probably a parent volunteer as there were NO subs that day according to school district officials) is the one who left IMO

 

[fran]

To Fran: I read somewhere in the last day or two that KH and TH both met the schoolbus....someone on here reported about them calling the school when he did not get off the bus...but a later report I read said the bus driver called from the bus....called back to the school.......so that put TH and KH at the bus around 3 or whenever it arrives at their house/bus stop/ whatever.

I thought I remembered the bus came at either 3:30 or 3:45. I could be wrong though.

fran

 

[socalgal2]

Since everyone else is speculating, I'll share this thought...

Maybe the current statements from the parents/LE etc . regarding current pressers that seem to be talking directly to Kyron, is in fact a Red Herring that Terri Horman devised! Maybe the pressure of this past weeks developments prompted her to invent a 2nd senario in hopes of getting the heat off her as a sole participant! It's as plausible as all the other speculations that have been talked about. On that note it disturbs me further if , in fact, this is what she did!:furious:

JMO :cow:

 

[Noway]

I think the school is like a split level house so that would leave half basement, half above ground and that makes the entrance/exits at half way also. I believe a local told us about the way it is built awhile back and so the '2nd' floor is also considered the main floor (which is where his room is).

This is what I was thinking it looked like (thanks to Gwenabob):

But what you say makes sense too. You can see that at this point, the stairs go up (to the right).