2011.06.02 Sidebar Day Eight (incl Universal audio discussion)

[CuriousTwo]

Thanks again to everyone who posts the court proceedings as they happen each day. I can only check in from work on my phone and don't get to watch live.

I noticed several of you mentioned watching a link with a split screen - where you can view ICA and the witness at the same time. Does anyone know if there's a link to these recordings posted anywhere? Would love to watch them in the evening after work.

Thanks again for keeping the trial info posted!

 

[feddup]

After today's video tour through Casey land JB is very afraid his client is facing the DP. He is horrified and trying to throw everything out there and he is desperate. He saw the juror's faces and he on top of that he had to face his own incompetence at not trying to stop these videos from being played in full to the jury.

They needed to see them to see "KC's reaction to grief" which isnt like any others!
Tell lots of lies, take people on wild goose chases and then call in like a Hospice person to explain how everyone has different reactions to grief:banghead:
Oh, and dont forget the hot body contests, etc. :loser:

 

[momshrink]

Thank you Momshrink.

Not to sound flippant but aren't there rules about a lawyer throwing a trial as a mistrial kind of like there are rules for throwing fights for prize fighters? :waitasec:

Somehow the rules never seem to apply to JB - I think he is made of teflon. He's always asking for one more last chance......

 

[mikeysmommom]

I really disagree. The state scored big with these jail visit tapes, which, BTW, the defense was so afraid of that they filed motions prior to trial to keep out and then moved again for a mistrial after they were played. The defense's reaction to them gives you a hint as to their impact.

The tapes showed casey praising her brother and father, refuting molestation claims. They showed she controlled the family and that they tip toe around her, not the other way around. They show she wasn't much troubled by the death of her baby. They also show that knowing her child was dead, she cruelly sent her frightened and suffering family on the wildest of goose chases. That lets the jury know a lot about casey and what they learned was very favorable to the state.

Further, they show that GA, who was accused by her of hiding the body and knowing of the accident, implored her to speak privately to the police and tell them what she knows, refuting that DT theory as well.

In any event, I simply cannot think of any victim of molestation who would fail to grieve the death of their child and would lie about an accident when facing first degree murder charges, which is what these tapes show

Finally, I have yet to see an attorney as rude, sneering, arrogant, demeaning and condescending as JB, in my entire career. On the other hand, JA has controlled himself fairly well. JB continually breaks the rules of court and evidence with sneaky parlour tricks and he, knowing his client is a liar who sent her frightened and grief-stricken family on fruitless and cruel goose chases, fabricated a disgusting theory that acts to stick the knife even further in this poor family's heart, twisting it in one of the most unethical ploys I have ever seen merely to score a win. JA has every reason to feel resentment.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

:seeya:Thank you button was not Thanks enough! I love your posts`!

 

[allycat1208]

At this point, if I was on the jury, I would have no problem sentencing Casey to Death.

Well, she seems to like jail, so let's hope she does not get more jail, unless prison treated her much worse.

 

[galvino]

You are so right :twocents:

I had a 'friend' that was a pathalogical liar/sociopath/narcissist. It was known (sometimes spoken, most times not) that he was full of BS. 'Obviously' it took time for us all to figure out his lies (time was on our side). She went from friend to group, etc and I imagine that as soon as her feet were held to the fire by a group of friends, she just moved on.

The wierd thing is about my friend is that we ALL know he is a big fat liar (about such important things as where he went to elementary school, served in the military, etc) and most of his friends just think "well, that's Eric. Whaddya gonna do?" Some think he is still a good friend DESPITE the lying 'shortcoming', others (like me) just dismiss him as a bullshi**er and give him no credibility.

I have called him on his lies so many times and niether he nor our mutual friends care. They just think of him as a sweet but misguided guy that needs help, but don't care enuff about him to help him- he is his own cartoon carachature (sp). Anyone that spends a year with him kknows this, but if you spend 6-8 mos is totally snowed.

The Ants just WANT to believe her so they don't question her, tho I believe that deep down each one of them knows.

 

[gitana1]

Gitana to answer your question

Quote: " Ever see grief expressed in a manner similar to casey in your career?"

NO. I have seen some very strange things. But never this theory of Baez.

Drinking yes certainly, drugs yes but this is smoke and mirrors IMO. Baez just hopes that he can get one juror hooked.

And I don't believe that this person they want to testify having not examined either George or Casey has any direct knowledge about what either was feeling at the time.

I'm not worried about this potential new witness. She is not a certified expert in grief. She won't make it in IMO. She accepts money for speaking engagements. The State would find a way to put all kinds of doubt in her credibility.

Thank you. I didn't think so but you never know! I agree she won't make it in as an expert.

About the state getting GA medical records. Do you all remember the hearing about the DT trying to say the A's were agents of the state. I believe the same hearing where JB asked GA if he would do anything for his daughter? Do you also remember sometime during or after the hearing GA was asked by JB to sign an afidavite and GA said hey would do it right away. Could he have signed an afidavite giving permission to release those records to JB?? I believe this would have been sometime in March, before the DT started hurling their accusations about the pool drowning and coverup.

I remember that! Could be, right before they were told about the defense theory!

Oh yeah, one would normally think that would never happen. However, both attorney and client here seem to suffer from such delusions of adequacy that they could feel people would want to read their story.

I have a relative that used to be in the publishing business. After Scott Peterson was convicted there was a book being shopped around by the defense firm that basically could not have been written without such a waiver. I was told that the waiver was not a problem as it was part of the fee arrangement.

I was not a part of the negotiations myself, but I have complete trust in my relative. Her firm passed on it pretty quickly, I don't believe it ever found a home. Nobody believed Scott or his family would ever tell the truth.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mikeysmommom]

Somehow the rules never seem to apply to JB - I think he is made of teflon. He's always asking for one more last chance......

Just like his client..........They are made for each other..........2:loser:

 

[technicalconfusion]

Good point. That was getting old, so I changed it.

:lol:

That was for Nancy Grace. Now I see is catering to a more mature audience.

Thanks so much, .

Oh my....:floorlaugh:

 

[allycat1208]

Were these jailhouse tapes heard today, new evidence released or were they available for the public to listen to before?

 

[mck16]

I have a question. ICA keeps saying the last time she saw CA was June 9, but wasn't she supposed to have been with CA father's day? Or am I totally confused with the dates? tia

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Good point. That was getting old, so I changed it.

:floorlaugh: and I don't even understand it!

 

[my2sense]

Were these jailhouse tapes heard today, new evidence released or were they available for the public to listen to before?

They've been available since about 1 to 2 days after the visits took place.

 

[allycat1208]

I have a question. ICA keeps saying the last time she saw CA was June 9, but wasn't she supposed to have been with CA father's day? Or am I totally confused with the dates? tia

You're right. KC stated that, but there's evidence Caylee was at the nursing home with CA on father's day I believe.

 

[momshrink]

The second post of his is dated 12/12/2006, the day after Caylee's remains were found (I think) and it says he can't get the smile off his face. what a ....
:banghead:

Caylee was found in 2008. Those writings were long before Caylee died.

 

[Sun]

If the State is showing the jail visitation videos in date order, by my calculations, there are still five to six more left to show to the jury.

Lee Anthony July 28 .... Part 2 (not sure if this is what was played today)
Parents July 30 .... Part 1 and .... Part 2
George August 3 .... Part 1 and .... Part 2
Parents August 14

 

[mck16]

You're right. KC stated that, but there's evidence Caylee was at the nursing home with CA on father's day I believe.

I wonder if SA will jump on that. To me that is a huge discrepancy in the DT's defense. Of course they still have the burden of proof that ICA did it I guess. One thing for sure JB is getting educated by the judge, but so am I. Learning lots just watching the trial. And reading posts here on WS.

 

[Scamperoo]

I didn't expect the jailhouse tapes to come in. They definately emphasize all of KC's lies. They help reinforce the states case on the four counts of lying to the police, but I don't see how they help the states case as far as proving premeditated murder. In fact, it seems the more the state proves her lies, this helps the defense's stand that she has been lying for years to hide the sexual abuse and is very good at lying.

The state should be scoring big points every day with the jury because they are, after all, presenting the states side of the story. When I went to my little brothers little league baseball game years ago, it was the top of the first inning and the score was 23 to 0. I said to my little brother, aren't you upset that you are behind 23 to 0, he laughed and said NO, we haven't got up to bat yet. I know this isn't little league, but I do think the prosecution needs a substantial lead in this case while presenting their side. The DT will score some points when they present their side, so the state needs a big lead.

Remember, the jury doesn't know everything about this case, like many of the posters here do. However, even the posters here do not know what the defense is going to present when its their turn to bat. Opening statements should have been an eye opener. The defense will do anything and everything HHJP will legally allow them to do to try to raise reasonable doubt. Expect ANYTHING from them.

JB is trying to raise doubt about the bad odor in the trunk being human decomposition, while on cross with YM. He said a number of LE paraded in and out of the garage with the trunk in the car open, yet it wasn't until the afternoon of July 17th, that the car was secured. I think this is smart of JB to make the jury think about the lack of actions taken by all those who had the opportunity to smell the odor in the trunk.

The prosecution had a very good day today. Seeing and hearing KC tell all those lies has more impact than people telling the jury that KC lies. The prosecution just has to make sure the jury understands that she was lying to cover up premeditated murder, not lying to cover up an accidental drowning, or sexual abuse from her father.

JA didn't need to be a tad bit snarky with JB today, but at least he did so while the jury was out. I like JA, but he does tend to be a little more snarky to JB than he needs to be. JB does some things that are susceptible to improvement, but JA should be a professional about it, and let HHJP do the admonishing, because HHJP is much better at it.

I do not agree with the assumption that you make that she has been sexually abused therefore she lies. It is just not true, while a sexual abuse survivor will lie to cover up the incest in the family they do not lie about everything in their lives. That is not part of being a sexual abuse victim. They certainly don't kill their children.

There is no proof at all she has ever been molested by anyone, ever, just because Baez has postulated this, doesn't make it so. If there were any evidence other than KC's claims it would be part of this ongoing trial but there just isn't.

The jurors aren't allowed to consider Baez's opening statements to be evidence, and rightly so. So with no supporting evidence of any sort they have to disregard Baez's attempt to ambush.

As to the smell in the trunk, people have said the smell of human decomp is unforgettable and unmistakable. It is, the reason being one of survival, we have a natural gag reaction and avoidance response to human decomp, we don't have this to just rotting animal flesh unless we are squeamish, it just smells gross.

KC is just one of those people who is a sly, deceitful chronic liar who has few redeeming qualities, she murdered her baby when she became an inconvenience and tried to set up family and friends to take the fall.

As for Jose Baez his skills as an attorney are sadly undeveloped and affecting his clients ability to get anything close to a fair trial.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I really disagree. The state scored big with these jail visit tapes, which, BTW, the defense was so afraid of that they filed motions prior to trial to keep out and then moved again for a mistrial after they were played. The defense's reaction to them gives you a hint as to their impact.

The tapes showed casey praising her brother and father, refuting molestation claims. They showed she controlled the family and that they tip toe around her, not the other way around. They show she wasn't much troubled by the death of her baby. They also show that knowing her child was dead, she cruelly sent her frightened and suffering family on the wildest of goose chases. That lets the jury know a lot about casey and what they learned was very favorable to the state.

Further, they show that GA, who was accused by her of hiding the body and knowing of the accident, implored her to speak privately to the police and tell them what she knows, refuting that DT theory as well.

In any event, I simply cannot think of any victim of molestation who would fail to grieve the death of their child and would lie about an accident when facing first degree murder charges, which is what these tapes show

Finally, I have yet to see an attorney as rude, sneering, arrogant, demeaning and condescending as JB, in my entire career. On the other hand, JA has controlled himself fairly well. JB continually breaks the rules of court and evidence with sneaky parlour tricks and he, knowing his client is a liar who sent her frightened and grief-stricken family on fruitless and cruel goose chases, fabricated a disgusting theory that acts to stick the knife even further in this poor family's heart, twisting it in one of the most unethical ploys I have ever seen merely to score a win. JA has every reason to feel resentment.

I agree that the tapes were a big plus for the prosecution.

The tapes show KC praising her brother and father, and show she wasn't much troubled by the death of her baby, but both of these might be thought of as denial by the jury. The family may have tip toed around her because she was in jail, not because she controls them. That she cruelly sent them on wild goose chases can also be attributed to denial. And the jury is watching GA's behavior like a hawk, so when he called her gorgeous, that could raise a red flag to them.

George imploring her to speak privately with police, could also be taken as a threat to her, "yes gorgeous, talk to the police privately, I dare you." For all anyone knows at this point, after the accidental drowning GA has placed the fear of GA in KC and that is why she was willing to sit in jail, rather than face him when she got out.

Please, do not think I am just being argumentative. And no, I do not believe any of what I wrote in those two paragraphs above. I am trying to look at things from a jurors perspective. I think the two paragraphs above are some things the jury may possibly be thinking. Not everyone looks at things the same way. We have heard and read so much about this case, that we have mostly formulated our opinions. The jury doesn't have that luxury, they are to listen to the evidence presented and formulate their decision from that alone.

As far as my opinion of JB, well, let's just say I know he is very inexperienced and leave it at that.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[allycat1208]

I have a question. ICA keeps saying the last time she saw CA was June 9, but wasn't she supposed to have been with CA father's day? Or am I totally confused with the dates? tia

There was a strange reason KC gave for giving the date June 9th. I don't remember well... something about 31 days until she will supposedly supposed be given Caylee back from the nanny.