2011.06.23 TRIAL Day Twenty-six (Morning Session)

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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140977"]2011.06.23 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-six) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I am sure that we have a break coming soon so be prepared to shape shift on over to the sidebar
 
JB just cannot leave it alone! Amazing! LOL
 
Why does JB keep re-asking questions the witness has already answered? He's now asked at least four times if the witness wants to learn more about hair.

Because he wants the answer HE wants...he keeps droning in with the same questions that have already been answered..Baez doesn't know when to stop..it appears Baez has to have the last word...:loser:
 
Now THAT was downright FUNNY!!! LMAO
 
Score by JA, "The only environmental condition that results in postmortem banding is the hair being attached to a corpse"
 
MagpieFromHinky Pamela



And one day Baez would like to learn to be a big boy attorney too. Baez is asking Shaw if he wants to be a better scientist one day

:floorlaugh:
 
The only element that leads to a show of post mordem-banding is the hair being from a deceased person! Bamm!
 
Yeah, but the only problem is.......it was for the State. :floorlaugh:

Frighteningly enough, I understand what JB is trying to do. He's trying to prove this isn't an EXACT science, and I believe he proved that point when the witness said it relied on the knowledg/experience/expertise of the examiner.

Now, I have to ask, what happens when the experienced expert dies? Is the next guy equally qualified, same outlook. etc? In my opinion, you cannot have an exact science so long as it is dependent on individual interpretation.
 
And here comes JB again asking same question again objected and sustained.
 
Does anyone know why it would be a bad thing that this guy did the study b/c he wanted to learn more?
 
JB is questioning the weather conditions of the study compared to weather conditions in Florida in this case. He is doing a good job of proving PMHB exists. The witness continues to say that he can recognize PMHB. Witness is continuing to say evidence of PMHB is well established.
 
Keep on askin' JB

Just gives the witness another chance to say the science is

"Well established"

:great:

His inexperience really shows, but does he even know that?? Does ICA realize that?? I am not sure if she has any idea how this trial is really going for her?? IMO, MOO
 
9:10

DIRECT EXAMINATION OF STEPHEN SHAW BY JB

Witness was re-certified as an expert in trace evidence, hair and fibers with no objection by the State.

Witness was shown Defense Exhibits DC, DB, DA, CZ, CY and CX.

He recognized the photos which were taken of anti-mortem hairs stored in various conditions in his study which was conducted after his depo.

SIDEBAR #2 requested by JA (9:12-9:15)

Items marked as Exhibits 39-44

He collected 600 hairs from 15 living individuals. Study was to show that the darkening band could be from living people?

OBJECTION - leading - SUSTAINED

One of your goals was to...

OBJECTION - leading - SUSTAINED

Purpose of study was inspired by a thesis regarding hairs submerged in water. The thesis suggested the additional testing. He put hairs from living individuals to try to get post-mortem banding on the hairs.

OBJECTION - leading/compound - SUSTAINED as to compound.

The purpose of his study was to expand on the prior study.

He was shown State's N.O. It was an exhibit to demonstrate what post-mortem banding looked like. It was published to the Jury.

He also published to the Jury Defense Exhibit 39. (JB called it State's Exhibit and JA had to correct him)

He identified it as a hair form a living being that was stored in water for 17 days. This was one of the hairs put into the test. It was initially identified by post-mortem banding by one of the examiners that took the test in their initial analysis.

They mistook it?

OBJECTION - SUSTAINED

The examiner initially identified it as post-mortem banding in their initial analysis. The other examiner did not. When the two conferred, they excluded this hair.

Both examiners...

OBJECTION - leading - SUSTAINED

Were both...

OBJECTION - leading - SUSTAINED

The examiners knew it was a test and that he had been conducting a study on environmental studies on human hairs. They examined over 200 hairs. In their initial analysis identified all the post-mortem hairs. In their initial analysis they both initially identified two anti-mortem hairs, then after they conferred, they excluded these and correctly identified the hairs.

He was shown Defense Exhibit 41. Another anti-mortem hair submerged in water for 17 days. This is the hair that examiner 2 initially identified as a banded hair in their initial analysis.

He believes these two are clearly different than the post-mortem banding.

Exhibit 42 - an anti-mortem hair stored in potting soil for 100 days. He indicated the area of apparent decomp beginning to develop.

Exhibit 41 - an anti-mortem hair stored in potting soil for 100 days which also showed apparent decomp beginning.

Exhibit 40 - an anti-mortem hair submerged in water for 17 days. It showed apparent decomp. The root could be dark as shown here on a living individual.

Any other ongoing studies at the FBI? No.

How many other studies on environmental studies on living hair? He is aware of 3. It is an ongoing area of study. He is still conducting research.

1/27/09 report -

(JB and JA and FG conferring at the podium)

In this report, he reported on hairs and fibers that were recovered from the hair mass, debris from the skull and 3 pieces of duct tape.

JA - Evidence #s?

Hair mass (State's 271) and (States 301) tuct tape.

CROSS EXAMINATION BY JA

He found no hairs suitable for meaningful exam on the duct tape that were also microscopically dissimilar to the hair mass. All hairs on the duct tape were the same as the hairs on the hair mass.

He also recovered textile fibers, but did not conduct any testing.

These photos were a part of his power point that he was not allowed to show.

His study contained studies on hairs that were found in the trunk.

Power point exhibit marked as State's Exhibit 305 with no objection from JA

Power point being published to the Jury.

Figure #1 - 600 hairs from 15 living individuals - this is a representation of some of the hairs. These are hairs stored indoors on the window sill for 322 (?) days. Left before exposure - right after. There is some discoloration, but no apparent decomp. The two hairs are from different people who had different color hair.

Next slide - additional hairs stored on the dash of a vehicle in direct sunlight for 202 days, unused, starting in August then for 7 months. Before on left and after on right. There was no apparent decomp.

Next slide - hairs stored in the trunk of the vehicle for the same time period. Left showed hairs before and right showed after exposure. No apparent decomp.

Next slide - hairs stored outdoors in a grass area where it could receive direct sunlight for 6 weeks. There is some slight darkening after exposure. The roots were missing in some of the outdoor hairs, probably from insects.

Q-59 hairs - there were some roots missing.

Next slide - hair stored outdoors in wooded shaded area for 14 days showing apparent decomp at the root end but no post-mortem banding.

For post-mortem banding you need to have an opaque banding just above the root. The root should mostly be in tact with a band just above it. This is an essential aspect. A 3-D stereo microscope is needed.

Next slide - another hair stored outside in a wooded area for 14 days. The three after shots show apparent decomp with no post-mortem banding.
Next slide - additional hair stored outside for 107 days showing some apparent decomp in the soft tissue of the root, but no post-motem banding.
Next slide - hair stored outside in a grassy area fo 107 days showing some apparent decomp, no banding - a subtle distinction.
Next slide - 2 additional hairs stored outside - after shows apparent decomp in the soft tissue of the root. Root appears to be shriveling.
Next slide - hair submerged in water for 17 days showing considerable change in the root. There is darkening but too far down into the soft tissue of the hair.
Next slide - hair submerged in water for 100 days showing striations.
Next slide - hair submerged in water for 100 days showing significant change in the root, darkening but no banding.
Next slide - hair submerged in water for 100 days showing changes but no post-mortem banding.
Next slide - hair submerged in water for 100 days showing slight changes but no post-mortem banding.
Next slide - hair buried in potting soil for 17 days with significant changes but no post-mortem banding.
Next slide - hair buried in potting soil for 17 days with a lot of root soft tissue decomp, but no post-mortem banding.
Next slide - hair buried in potting soil for 100 days showing soft-tissued decomposing but no banding.
Next slide - hair buried in potting soil showing root end changes but no banding.

The next slide (one shown by JB as initially being found to be post-mortem decomp by examiner) there is very little to no tissue on the root itself. Looking at it microscopically is necessary to show where the soft tissue starts and ends. This hair was stored in water for 17 days, not in the car.

The next slide (one shown by JB) this is not post-mortem banding because the darkening is too far down into the soft tissue of the hair.

Post-mortem banding - there is a certain area of the hair that is susceptible to decomp. Just above the band the hair is completely hardened and dead. Where the band is, the hair is not completely keratinized. Below that is soft-tissue which is further down the follicle and better protected.

Next slide -hair is from post-mortem cadaver stored outside - one of the hair used in the test.
Next slide - another hair used in the test from cadaver stored outside on the ground.
Next slide - hair from cadaver stored inside house. The discoloration may be an artifact
Next slide - hair from cadaver stored in vehicle.
Next slide - hair from cadaver inside a house.
Next slide - hair from cadaver stored outside.
Next slide - hair from cadaver stored outside.

Five cadavers were used in the study.

Next slide - hair from cadaver stored outside.
Next slide - hair from cadaver stored outside.
Next slide - hair from cadaver stored outside.
Next slide - hair from cadaver stored in a vehicle.
Next slide - hair from cadaver stored in a house.

These are all hairs showing post-mortem root banding.

Next set of slides - examples of hairs from living people.

First slide - apparent decomp but no post-mortem banding.
Next slide - same as above
Next slide - same as above
Next slide - anti-mortem hair buried in potting soil for 100 days. It may have change, but no banding.

He had no hairs stored in a car that displayed anything that could have been mistaken for post-mortem banding.

RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY JB:

Hairs tested in trunk were not in garbage. He had no hairs in garbage.

Power point showed number of days before results were collected for anti-mortem hairs. Post-mortem hairs did not have dates (he has them, but not put on the slides).

The slide he was shown was a hair placed outdoors in Tennessee in the wintertime on 1/27/04 and collected on 3/5/04. He agreed the outside conditions were completely different than in this case.

Next slide showed a hair outdoors for a month - completely different temps than he would expect in June in Florida.

Next slide of hair stored in house for a month. Didn't know if house had heating or A/C.

Next slide of hair stored in vehicle for a little less than a month in Tennessee in the wintertime. Car was outdoors. Colder conditions than in this case.

Next slide showed hair stored in a house for 2 weeks.

Next slide showed hair stored for 3 weeks in Tennessee in the wintertime.

Next slide showed hair stored in Feb for about a month.

Next slide showed hair stored outside in Tennessee in the wintertime.

Next slide showed hair stored outside for a little over a month in Tennessee.

Next slide stored outside for a month in Tennessee.

His findings showed they got different reactions to the hair with different environmental conditions.

Could you replicate...

OBJECTION - leading - OVERRULED

He did not replicate all the conditions in this case. This hair could have been there for months and exposed to any number of environmental conditions.

Post-mortem banding is a well-established science - based primarily on experience of examiners. The research is there to learn more. He is trying to learn more.

He tried to replicate post-mortem banding.

He wants to learn more and know as much about it as possible. The goal is not to say that post-mortem banding only comes from deceased individuals.

Post-mortem banding is wel-established based on experience of examiners in the field. Even in case work, they deal with environmental conditions. He has yet to find a hair with post-mortem banding that he can't relate to a deceased.

OBJECTION - SUSTAINED

RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY JA


The literature contains data from post-mortem banding from all over the country.

OBJECTION BY JB - bolstering - OVERRULED

To this point, the only environmental condition that leads to post-mortem banding is being attached to a decomposing body.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY JB

Did you do this study to learn more?

OBJECTION - SUSTAINED

No further questions.

Witness excused. 10:18

Recess until 10:40
 
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