4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 72

[ktm44]

I think that if DM yelled upstairs to stop partying, BK might have been flattered. If - if! - he never was invited to that house, and was spending nights alone, and (being not bad-looking and definitely smart enough), scared women to such a degree that he virtually could not have a girl unless he killed her, then DM’s mistake made BK feel “included”. Whatever his plan was on floor 3, it didn’t work, and he was livid, I assume. On floor 2, X@E were, obviously, unwelcoming. But DM, mistakenly, assumed BK was a night guest who was just leaving. That “inclusion” was not a typical reaction to BK. If I remember correctly, since his school years, girls were especially unacceptable; now I think he was giving him bad vibes even then. Later, in different situations, women were creeped out by him. He seemed to have been harsher on women, too. But DM, mistakenly or just being the person she was, did not respond in “what is this creep doing here?” way. Hers was, “someone’s friend from upstairs is leaving”, far from the usual reaction people had to BK.

I don’t always believe media reports, but this one is not impossible, and it could well explain why DM is alive.

If he was focused on killing people, I don't think it would have registered much beyond noise.

 

[CSIDreamer]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I just want some more concrete information about the frequency Bryan Kohberger participated in the sport that goes beyond generalized anecdotes about other people's takes on boxing. Did he take occasional lessons? Did he actively spar? Did he only do this as a senior in high school or is it a longer-standing interest?

<modsnip>We have no further concrete information beyond people saying he boxed, and I would find that additional information enlightening, interesting, and helpful before I draw any further conclusions about it.

It doesn't take a lot to figure out where the most effective stabs should be directed for maximum kill potential. I too, am a little confused by the insistence he was "boxing". JMO

 

[Dotta]

I do think things came to a head in his life with the class confrontation (humiliation to him), now that PIP being mentioned, I'm guessing huge student debt, lost that security job/intership with LE previously, rejection from women, etc.

He might've thought it was time to act on his compulsion after the straw broke the camel's back (PIP) then thinking "it's a sign" to act after possibly seeing on social media Kaylee was in town (even if not target, he might've been "repulsed/triggered" by the girls). All JMO, MOO

If PappaR is indeed BK, he alluded that the date of murder and the number of the house also mattered.

And PappaR's avatar wore Russian soldier's cap, and the massacre happened in Moscow.

This stuff is really weird

JMO

 

[ktm44]

I find it interesting that everyone that has questioned the DM affadavit story has been excoriated followed by a true life ptsd story. Now there is allegedly a video floating around by a friend stating that what actually happened is DM telling everyone to be quiet and went back to sleep. As in she truly had no idea about anything going on.

Wouldn't that make more sense than the previous notion that she froze for 6 hours? I don’t think even DM agrees with that story.

I have never believed she froze for 6 hours but I have always defended her against those who have and continue to judge her based on hindsight.

The PCA says she froze to some degree and I believe it's a summary of her words but our minds process information based on life experiences so I could see how her mind would conclude K was playing with her dog (as stated in the PCA) or that there was some sort of party going on. I don't think it would be unusual in an extremely social house of young people for others to drop by unannouced so even 'someone's here' would likely register as nothing unusual or concerning.

Someone she didn't recogize in front of her door may have caused concern or to monetarily freeze but I don't believe that any one of us would ever connect household noise to the waking up and finding most of the house had been slaughtered.

 

[Dotta]

I actually bet you're right...terrifying.

But didn't she say he passed by her going to the kitchen's sliding door?

When was he supposed to stand there?

 

[Kdot112]

I have never believed she froze for 6 hours but I have always defended her against those who have and continue to judge her based on hindsight.

The PCA says she froze to some degree and I believe it's a summary of her words but our minds process information based on life experiences so I could see how her mind would conclude K was playing with her dog (as stated in the PCA) or that there was some sort of party going on. I don't think it would be unusual in an extremely social house of young people for others to drop by unannouced so even 'someone's here' would likely register as nothing unusual or concerning.

Someone she didn't recogize in front of her door may have caused concern or to monetarily freeze but I don't believe that any one of us would ever connect household noise to the waking up and finding most of the house had been slaughtered.

I think the people that judged her likely did it off of a bad interpretation of what happened. The affidavit story came off very confusing when mixed with the timing of the 911 call. This made the debate unfairly become about DM herself (people attacking her judgement; people defending her judgement) when it should have been about the story itself and who wrote it.

 

[CSIDreamer]

What a terribly disturbed individual we are beginning to discover. It just gets worse and worse. It's like in the last few years his mind and personality have been getting more and more out of control. Was there ever a point at which he could have changed for the better, I wonder? I think psychiatrists will be studying him for a long long time. For myself, as a mother, I feel a lot of sadness for what might have been, and wonder what went so terribly wrong.

Interesting you brought this up because I've been thinking about this today.

We perceive from sources that he's been on an out of control, downward spiral for awhile.

But what's interesting to me is he seemingly maintained a vegan diet for years. He supposedly dropped 100 lbs. and kept it off. That's highly interesting to me because I have a feeling weight control is not easy. I literally *personally* don't know a single person who has managed to maintain a weight loss.

It's almost like he found the one thing he could consistently control.

JMO

 

[CSIDreamer]

But didn't she say he passed by her going to the kitchen's sliding door?

When was he supposed to stand there?

If it's his footprint I think it was left when he came downstairs after killing Maddie and Kaylee. That path would have put him much closer to her door. JMO

 

[Helechawagirl]

I think Newsweek is the source of the misreported Nov 12 date for the alleged PIP meet. Like the Daily Mail, NW is relying on the Banfield report and timeline in its reporting. The Banfield timeline and report definately has the date of the alleged PIP as November 2nd (see up thread links). MOO

From Newsweek BBM:
"But Kohberger had received several warnings from the university in the months before his arrest and was terminated from his teaching assistant position on December 19, NewsNation's Ashleigh Banfield reported on Tuesday, citing multiple unnamed sources...Banfield said the letter states that...[snipped BM for focus]...They met again on November 12 to discuss an "improvement plan." Another meeting was held on December 7 to discuss how that plan was going."

The date should be November 2nd IMO.

Bryan Kohberger was fired as teaching assistant days before arrest—report

Kohberger, 28, is accused of murdering four University of Idaho students at a rental home in Moscow.

www.newsweek.com

Thank you. Sadly the news media has succumbed to vertical integration; large companies gobbled up small newspapers or put them out of business.

The publicly traded companies have profit as their driving force. As a result, fewer and fewer reporters. So one reporter writes a story and the other media writes an article reporting on the first reporter’s story.

It’s dangerous and leads to errors.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Z

One other stray thought to this great discussion about his TA failure and potential bias in grading, if he really failed THIS QUICKLY in his first role as a teacher/mentor, then the power must have gone to his head.

I've seen several people in my career who constantly bad-mouthed management... but at the point where they were lucky enough to be given a role as a supervisor, the "I'm in charge" attitude totally went to their head and they were HORRIBLE MANAGERS and actually removed after sometimes less than a year.

Some people's personalities completely change when they think they are now the boss. For him to BOMB OUT so quickly, he must have been a nightmare to manage. I know the type. No "improvement plan" is going to fix that.

Agree. He was the professor’s favorite back in PA and he thought he would enjoy that same type of admiration, but then he was back in the mix with no special status, having to prove himself again and got himself in trouble immediately.

 

[Dotta]

One other stray thought to this great discussion about his TA failure and potential bias in grading, if he really failed THIS QUICKLY in his first role as a teacher/mentor, then the power must have gone to his head.

I've seen several people in my career who constantly bad-mouthed management... but at the point where they were lucky enough to be given a role as a supervisor, the "I'm in charge" attitude totally went to their head and they were HORRIBLE MANAGERS and actually removed after sometimes less than a year.

Some people's personalities completely change when they think they are now the boss. For him to BOMB OUT so quickly, he must have been a nightmare to manage. I know the type. No "improvement plan" is going to fix that.

They were very patient with him to even consider an "improvement plan".

My idea of such a plan would be a "kick at a certain body part".

Some people simply don't appreciate the second chance.
And always blame others for their OWN failures.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

And that it's noted his shoe print was outside DM's door. How long did he stand there?

Let's say this is true DM yelled out. That would explain her utterly frozen in fear and not leaving the room until morning or calling 911 possibly.

BK goes to the door he thinks the voice came from and stands there for a few minutes (would be forever to DM)... she on the other side hearing him breathing, her not making one sound or breath meanwhile her heart beating out of her chest (I know I've been that scared where it feels like my heart is beating out of my chest!) That would be traumatizing 100%. JMO MOO

That's a really good question. The PCA made it sound as if maybe he just walked by (with DM watching through a crack in the door? But really, all we really know is that a nearly invisible footprint in blood (I can't think of another protein that could produce this) was found outside her door.

I had assumed he just walked by, but I'm not sure how LE would rule out whether he paused (although other latent prints and readily visible prints must surely be found, as well - I suppose we have to wait until June).

 

[jepop]

I think the people that judged her likely did it off of a bad interpretation of what happened. The affidavit story came off very confusing when mixed with the timing of the 911 call. This made the debate unfairly become about DM herself (people attacking her judgement; people defending her judgement) when it should have been about the story itself and who wrote it.

BBM: IMO the affadavit isn't really a story as such, it's a legal/LE document of probable cause. It was written primarily to show evidence of cause for BK's arrest and needed to be constructed so as to clearly convince the judge of its merit. People have debated, infered and extrapolated based on the PCA. IMO to blame the PCA for inferences some may have drawn from it does not really make sense. MOO

 

[Dotta]

But what's interesting to me is he seemingly maintained a vegan diet for years. He supposedly dropped 100 lbs. and kept it off. That's highly interesting to me because I have a feeling weight control is not easy. I literally *personally* don't know a single person who has managed to maintain a weight loss.

It's almost like he found the one thing he could consistently control.

JMO

IMO, it is all about obsessions.

 

[Nila Aella]

Affidavit

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/020823%20Affidavit%20of%20Latah%20County%20Prosecutor%20William%20W%20Thompson%20Jr.pdf

 

[Nila Aella]

Memorandum
Objection

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/020823%20Memorandum%20of%20Points%20and%20Authorities%20Relating%20to%20Nondissemination%20Order.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/020923%20Objection%20to%20Motion%20to%20Appeal%20Amend%20andor%20Clarify%20Nondissemination%20Order.pdf

 

[Nila Aella]

The preliminary hearing was NOT added back to the cases of interest page.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[PrairieWind]

If it's his footprint I think it was left when he came downstairs after killing Maddie and Kaylee. That path would have put him much closer to her door. JMO

I guess he could have left the foot print going either direction. I think most of us assume he came in from the sliding door in teh kitchen, went upstairs, killed the girls, came down the stairs, passed DM's room, went to XK's room, killed there, then went back by DM's room (when he is seen by DM) and exited out the sliding door again. So he could have left a foot print either before or after going to XK's room. We don't know exactly where in front of DM's door it was found.

 

[10ofRods]

And that it's noted his shoe print was outside DM's door. How long did he stand there?

Let's say this is true DM yelled out. That would explain her utterly frozen in fear and not leaving the room until morning or calling 911 possibly.

BK goes to the door he thinks the voice came from and stands there for a few minutes (would be forever to DM)... she on the other side hearing him breathing, her not making one sound or breath meanwhile her heart beating out of her chest (I know I've been that scared where it feels like my heart is beating out of my chest!) That would be traumatizing 100%. JMO MOO

That's a really good question. The PCA made it sound as if maybe he just walked by (with DM watching through a crack in the door? But really, all we really know is that a nearly invisible footprint in blood (I can't think of another protein that could produce this) was found outside her door.

I had assumed he just walked by, but I'm not sure how LE would rule out whether he paused (although other latent prints and readily visible prints must surely be found, as well - I suppose we have to wait until June).

Has it been confirmed as BK’s shoe print? All I’ve read refers to it as similar to a Van’s print— please provide link it was confirmed to be BK’s.

Thanks and just asking for clarifications sake— not picking on you cuz I’ve seen other posters also state this as fact and don’t want folks to get carried away if it isn’t true… IMO.

PCA says it was the murderers' footprint. It is pointed in the direction of the door, apparently, and it's in blood. Any thoughts about who else with a men's shoe would be walking through blood that night?

To me, there's only one possibility (the murderer).

It doesn't take a lot to figure out where the most effective stabs should be directed for maximum kill potential. I too, am a little confused by the insistence he was "boxing". JMO

Respectfully disagree.

If you don't want arterial blood spurt and you do want silence (which appears to be the case here - no one heard screaming that we know of so far), and you want to accomplish a murder in less than 15 seconds or so, you will indeed care about where you land your knife blows.

No throats slashed. Wounds to the upper body/torso only. According to SG, KG's liver and lungs were "destroyed." This is the way to use an offensive knife if you don't want a lot of blood on yourself and you do want silence. I've asked several people (colleagues) if they can immediately tell me where their liver is (they had to think, one got it wrong). A right-handed person must choose to stab the right side (opposite their own hand) of the body. And to know where the liver is.

Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves had ‘big open gouges,’ dad reveals as he calls cops ‘cowards’

The coroner told Kaylee Goncalves’ dad that the stab wounds were more “like tears,” in her body.

nypost.com

There's another advantage. Almost everyone knows that if you hit bone while stabbing, you might knick your knife. The technique chosen by Kohberger avoided that, as he was working below and then up under the ribcage (I assume one of the first wounds was to a lung, though).

Most people would have to think and study and even train for this kind of stabbing - the Marines sure do (and this is a technique taught in military operations for quickly silencing an opponent - including a sleeping one).

Since boxing trains a person to use their hands very quickly and since most gym-based boxing classes (very popular these days) teach people to pretend box by using the rules of boxing (a relative of mine teaches gym based boxing and both of my daughters have taken classes), it makes sense to me that BK would use this skill or, at least, had the remnants of that skill come back to him.

Now, if we find out that there's tons of blood all over the inside of his car (which I am betting is not the case), OR that only one victim was stabbed in the liver (there's a particular kind of stabbing technique, which comes up online pretty rapidly if you search - which I believe BK did), then I'll change my mind. Four people were killed and the only person yelling/screaming is DM? And that's to tell them to quiet down? One of the victims - Xana - fought back, was apparently crying and did make noise. DM does not mention hearing screams nor does she mention hearing Ethan's voice (I doubt that Ethan uttered the "Don't worry" phrase and DM doesn't say she thought it was Ethan).

JMO. But I am convinced that BK didn't want blood all over his face and head (regardless of mask or hat) and wanted as little blood as possible on his person. I assume he had some kind of plan for taking off his coverall or out garments before getting into the car (surely he had *some* blood on him - but, if he went for the liver and lungs, exsanguination would have taken a minuet or two, giving him time to move on without getting too much blood on him).

I think he got the blood on his foot in the struggle with Xana, perhaps with Ethan already dead and a spreading pool of blood in that room. Perhaps we will find that there were visible bloody footprints in Maddie's room, but I find it fascinating that the PCA doesn't mention that. It would have been a good addition - if a Van's print is found in Maddie's room and then the latent print is found outside Dylan's door, that's truly convincing - that the killer wore Van's. OTOH, LE could not show that BK owned or ever owned Van's at that point. Still, combined with the sheath evidence, that would have been strong probable cause.

IMO.

 

[jepop]

Memorandum
Objection

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/020823%20Memorandum%20of%20Points%20and%20Authorities%20Relating%20to%20Nondissemination%20Order.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/020923%20Objection%20to%20Motion%20to%20Appeal%20Amend%20andor%20Clarify%20Nondissemination%20Order.pdf

The State Attorney appears to be very good at his job. The prosecution doesn't want a potential mistrial or an appeal post-trial based on an argument that media coverage of witness statements pre or during trial compromised impartiality in a jury. MOO