4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

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Mastermind or Imbecile....Neither for me; however, I admit what I've read about his behavior as a TA, IMO he "thinks" he is a mastermind. JMO, he thinks he is smarter than everyone. I mean, the language he supposedly used of being "exonerated" sounds like someone confident he will walk.

There's no evidence he ever said that. His public defender in PA said it (and it's standard public defender statement). That lawyer did not say, "Kohberger says he will be exonerated." Instead, the man spoke of Kohberger's mental state:


"He's eager to be exonerated."

I bet he is. Who wouldn't be? But we have absolutely no evidence that Kohberger ever used the word exonerated. I believe his defense attorney was simply saying what a good defense attorney says at that stage in the game.

I don't think it's fair to attribute that level of pomposity to the defendant. I suppose BK might in fact think of himself as superior to others; it's also possible he has a decided lack of the mental faculty called "second order processing," or "introspection." There are lots of people like that. They can be very good at what they do, especially if it doesn't require second order processing ("Why am I doing this? What did I just think? What did I just do?")

The PD never said it was a direct quote. And the PD never said it was a direct quote from Kohberger.

IMO.
 
On another topic, in response to the question on why BK would have knowingly driven his own car on the night of the murders, and JMO...

I don't think BK cared overmuch about his car being captured on video going by video cameras that night, because he went to a lot of effort ahead of time to thwart LE in being able to easily identify his car.

Nor do I think he was worried about his face being seen.

And he was right not to worry too much, because LE never got his face on camera nor a shot of his license plate, AFAIK, and had to go to some effort to identify the white sedan as his car in another way, in the end.

Those white sedans are ubiquitous.

There was no front plate and the back plate could have been obscured. It could have been muddy as OP pointed out a ways back on this thread.

There's a dark tinted plastic convex cover that goes over a license plate so the numbers/letters can't easily be seen to the naked eye that I've seen on cars with Quebec license plates, I guess it's a thing there. And I think I heard LE tried to have them banned, and they lost, so people still drive around with their license plate obscured by a dark tinted cover. So the point is there are a number of ways to obscure a license plate.

The image of a car going by in the dark is inherently very blurry from what I saw of images of the white sedan early on.

His car could also have tin win (dark tinted windows) that would make it difficult to see who was driving no less be able to identify them. I don't recall if his Elantra had tin win, but if so, it's yet another factor at play that would have obscured identification of him as the driver.

IIRC, the FBI had an entire team dedicated to reviewing video footage, and their top expert in the country at identifying makes and models of vehicles from video reviewing thousands of hours of video.

That was some dedicated manpower, and it still took them awhile to narrow it down to an Elantra, and even then, IIRC, LE said there were 18,000 or so white Elantras registered in Idaho when they started their search.

And at the time BK's wasn't even registered in Idaho but PA, so id'ing his vehicle was even more like finding a needle in a haystack.

Which, IIRC, they were only finally able to do, by going to an out-of-state university's campus security or police, and asking them to search for white Elantras registered to one of several thousand students.

So even if his car was recorded going by, turning around, etc. that night, "here, there, and everywhere", (coming and going from Moscow and Pullman and their neighborhood) that whole set of circumstances would make it extremely difficult for them to identify one of many random white cars as his car, which IMO, he knew full well.

Just like keeping his phone with him was I think like a security blanket for him so he disabled tracking and turned it on and off instead of leaving it at home, he needed the security of driving his own car so he obscured it as much as possible from being easily identified.

In both cases, he took his chances, and bet against the odds, and lost.

Or maybe he wanted to get caught, but didn't want to make it easy, as in catch me if you can.

JMO
Hmmmm...total speculation here - wonder if he was trying to set up the DD Driver? A few things align with that theory...like: did he know someone in the house ordered DD. This may explain why he drove past the house multiple times. Also, Since BF's room was downstairs, adjacent to where the DD was delivered, maybe that was why the defense wants to interview her.

Not sure how much detail about the DD driver investigation was part of the records handed over to the defense. Does anyone know how much would be in discovery about the DD delivery, like timing, interview, etc.?
 
There's no evidence he ever said that. His public defender in PA said it (and it's standard public defender statement). That lawyer did not say, "Kohberger says he will be exonerated." Instead, the man spoke of Kohberger's mental state:


"He's eager to be exonerated."

I bet he is. Who wouldn't be? But we have absolutely no evidence that Kohberger ever used the word exonerated. I believe his defense attorney was simply saying what a good defense attorney says at that stage in the game.

I don't think it's fair to attribute that level of pomposity to the defendant. I suppose BK might in fact think of himself as superior to others; it's also possible he has a decided lack of the mental faculty called "second order processing," or "introspection." There are lots of people like that. They can be very good at what they do, especially if it doesn't require second order processing ("Why am I doing this? What did I just think? What did I just do?")

The PD never said it was a direct quote. And the PD never said it was a direct quote from Kohberger.

IMO.
Good point. We don't know if he actually used that language. I think I am just hung up on that word "exonerated." I think this is the first time I've heard that used, rather than say he is innocent. Now that I type that....it does sound more like something a defense attorney would say...where BK may say "I am innocent."
 
There's no evidence he ever said that. His public defender in PA said it (and it's standard public defender statement). That lawyer did not say, "Kohberger says he will be exonerated." Instead, the man spoke of Kohberger's mental state:


"He's eager to be exonerated."

I bet he is. Who wouldn't be? But we have absolutely no evidence that Kohberger ever used the word exonerated. I believe his defense attorney was simply saying what a good defense attorney says at that stage in the game.

I don't think it's fair to attribute that level of pomposity to the defendant. I suppose BK might in fact think of himself as superior to others; it's also possible he has a decided lack of the mental faculty called "second order processing," or "introspection." There are lots of people like that. They can be very good at what they do, especially if it doesn't require second order processing ("Why am I doing this? What did I just think? What did I just do?")

The PD never said it was a direct quote. And the PD never said it was a direct quote from Kohberger.

IMO.
BBM. I agree. The attorney said at the time he really had not discussed the case with BK.

I found the link:

LaBar noted that the scope of his representation of Kohberger was limited to the extradition back to Idaho and he did not really know much about the case and “didn’t want to discuss the case with him because I’m merely his representation for this procedural issue.”
 
Hmmmm...total speculation here - wonder if he was trying to set up the DD Driver? A few things align with that theory...like: did he know someone in the house ordered DD. This may explain why he drove past the house multiple times. Also, Since BF's room was downstairs, adjacent to where the DD was delivered, maybe that was why the defense wants to interview her.

Not sure how much detail about the DD driver investigation was part of the records handed over to the defense. Does anyone know how much would be in discovery about the DD delivery, like timing, interview, etc.?

I've been wondering the same things so many times. It seems beyond coincidence to me but maybe I'm looking for something that isn't there. It's strange.
 
This is really well reasoned.

May I go one step further? I don't think this was a pre-planned mass murder: I am convinced it was a pre-planned single murder. And had it been a single murder, it may have followed in his (studied in crime) mind that it would be investigated but surely not with the vigor of a mass murder. Many murderers make this miscalculation. They underestimate the effort LE and families and the media will go to discover the truth and exact justice.
The discussions going on in here are fascinating to me. Can I add to your fantastic post?

In June of 2022 and before he moved west to Washington, BK was posting on Re**it asking for people to participate in a study "to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision-making when committing a crime". He states, "this study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent criminal offense, with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience." Unless I am mistaken, this was confirmed to be his post and survey in the arrest affidavit. IMO, maybe he didn't have any participants or maybe second hand accounts just weren't enough. Maybe studying criminology was his way of attempting to satiate an interest that went far beyond the type of interest we here on Websleuths have. Maybe he just had to find out first hand.

I cringe saying this but... like BK, I'm vegan. When I'm out of town I rely heavily on a popular app called "HappyCow". Finding out where I can find vegan food is usually the first thing I do when traveling. I turn it on and it immediately shows me a map of nearby places that offer Veg+ (raw/vegetarian/vegan) food, goods, and services. It's basically a Veg+ version of Yelp and it even has reviews and a basic social network. I just centered the map on Pullman, Wa. Since there are so few options in Pullman it also pulls up... you guessed it - Moscow. I'll attach a file where it shows where I centered (purple pin) and how it automatically shows Moscow as well. I am willing to put money down that BK used the HappyCow app or website at some point. Every single Veg+ person I know in real life and online has used it. Anyway, Mad Greek is listed and I will attach a picture. There are only 8 veg+ friendly restaurants in Moscow and I'm also willing to wager that BK hit all of them up in the time he was living in those parts. Since veg+ folks can't just find food in any and every establishment, we tend to check out as many as we can. Like filling out a checklist or if you know the reference... "collect them all" like Pokemon.

So, to tie that all together:

IMO and if indeed BK committed the crime, I think BK moved to Pullman by the first week in August and immediately searched out vegan options in the area. He quickly became familiar with what both Pullman and (by default) Moscow had to offer. I think the research study he was working on wasn't doing it for him. He got frustrated. BK's phone was pinging in the vicinity of the Moscow house by August 21st. Plenty of time to scope out all the vegan offerings in the area - including Mad Greek. Thats how I think he found a random target who peaked his interest for whatever reason. We know (and BK knows) that the hardest murders to solve are the random ones. No emotion. No connection. I wonder if he had the HappyCow app on his phone. Maybe he didn't think that connection would ever be made by anyone else. It'll be interesting to see if theres a paper or digital trail tying him to food purchases in Moscow.
 

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What food was the Door Dash delivering? At the beginning of this case, I recall some suggestion that the DD was being delivered from a premises close to BK's residence. Is that true? Do we know?
Maybe it's *about* the food itself?

(I am vegan myself so not trying to imply veganism = murderous militant but he might have gone all 'unabomber' Ted Kaczynski motivated?)
 
Hmmmm...total speculation here - wonder if he was trying to set up the DD Driver? A few things align with that theory...like: did he know someone in the house ordered DD. This may explain why he drove past the house multiple times. Also, Since BF's room was downstairs, adjacent to where the DD was delivered, maybe that was why the defense wants to interview her.

Not sure how much detail about the DD driver investigation was part of the records handed over to the defense. Does anyone know how much would be in discovery about the DD delivery, like timing, interview, etc.?
PCA shows that LE identified the DD driver - infact it suggests that the DD driver may have identified themselves to LE very early in the investigation (PCA linked at start of thread). I'm assuming LE interviewed that driver, eliminated them as suspect and know exactly what times the delivery took place and all the circumstances around it. Moo

There was a warrant obtained for door dash in early December (the 6th Dec?).

Link to Idaho Court Page


Direct link to DD warrant below


From memory the DD warrant sought info on deliveries that were made to 1122 King Road from the beginning of 2022. Looking for delivery driver info, makes of cars used by delivery drivers, any conversations between delivery drivers and recipients of orders at 1122.

ETA: Whoops - Assume all of above would be in Discovery and available to the defense.
 
Hmmmm...total speculation here - wonder if he was trying to set up the DD Driver? A few things align with that theory...like: did he know someone in the house ordered DD. This may explain why he drove past the house multiple times. Also, Since BF's room was downstairs, adjacent to where the DD was delivered, maybe that was why the defense wants to interview her.

Not sure how much detail about the DD driver investigation was part of the records handed over to the defense. Does anyone know how much would be in discovery about the DD delivery, like timing, interview, etc.?

What we know is that DD cooperated with records and that the driver was identified, thoroughly interviewed and not considered a suspect.

He was driving past the house (3x?) for about an hour. Several of us have speculated that the killer might have gotten certain kinds of information online - but how he would have hacked into XK's doordash app, I have no clue. The defense wants to interview her because she has already been interviewed by Moscow LE as part of the investigation and they have questions.

The entire set of reports about the DD driver (and probably video of their interview) should be in the hands of the Defense by now (and has been since the discovery documents were handed over).

IMO.
 
What food was the Door Dash delivering? At the beginning of this case, I recall some suggestion that the DD was being delivered from a premises close to BK's residence. Is that true? Do we know?
Maybe it's *about* the food itself?

(I am vegan myself so not trying to imply veganism = murderous militant but he might have gone all 'unabomber' Ted Kaczynski motivated?)
Hello fellow vegan :p

Xana ordered Jack In the Box - closest location is indeed in Pullman.

xana-meal-089.jpeg
 
The discussions going on in here are fascinating to me. Can I add to your fantastic post?

In June of 2022 and before he moved west to Washington, BK was posting on Re**it asking for people to participate in a study "to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision-making when committing a crime". He states, "this study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent criminal offense, with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience." Unless I am mistaken, this was confirmed to be his post and survey in the arrest affidavit. IMO, maybe he didn't have any participants or maybe second hand accounts just weren't enough. Maybe studying criminology was his way of attempting to satiate an interest that went far beyond the type of interest we here on Websleuths have. Maybe he just had to find out first hand.

I cringe saying this but... like BK, I'm vegan. When I'm out of town I rely heavily on a popular app called "HappyCow". Finding out where I can find vegan food is usually the first thing I do when traveling. I turn it on and it immediately shows me a map of nearby places that offer Veg+ (raw/vegetarian/vegan) food, goods, and services. It's basically a Veg+ version of Yelp and it even has reviews and a basic social network. I just centered the map on Pullman, Wa. Since there are so few options in Pullman it also pulls up... you guessed it - Moscow. I'll attach a file where it shows where I centered (purple pin) and how it automatically shows Moscow as well. I am willing to put money down that BK used the HappyCow app or website at some point. Every single Veg+ person I know in real life and online has used it. Anyway, Mad Greek is listed and I will attach a picture. There are only 8 veg+ friendly restaurants in Moscow and I'm also willing to wager that BK hit all of them up in the time he was living in those parts. Since veg+ folks can't just find food in any and every establishment, we tend to check out as many as we can. Like filling out a checklist or if you know the reference... "collect them all" like Pokemon.

So, to tie that all together:

IMO and if indeed BK committed the crime, I think BK moved to Pullman by the first week in August and immediately searched out vegan options in the area. He quickly became familiar with what both Pullman and (by default) Moscow had to offer. I think the research study he was working on wasn't doing it for him. He got frustrated. BK's phone was pinging in the vicinity of the Moscow house by August 21st. Plenty of time to scope out all the vegan offerings in the area - including Mad Greek. Thats how I think he found a random target who peaked his interest for whatever reason. We know (and BK knows) that the hardest murders to solve are the random ones. No emotion. No connection. I wonder if he had the HappyCow app on his phone. Maybe he didn't think that connection would ever be made by anyone else. It'll be interesting to see if theres a paper or digital trail tying him to food purchases in Moscow.

You would be extremely disappointed that app doesn't really apply to Moscow, old outdated stuff. There's really no vegetarian or vegan fare here to speak of even though there is a little. Online sources for this are just wrong. JMOO.
 
You would be extremely disappointed that app doesn't really apply to Moscow, old outdated stuff. There's really no vegetarian or vegan fare here to speak of even though there is a little. Online sources for this are just wrong. JMOO.
I'm not shocked at that at all and I run into this exact problem all the time. It's the same with Yelp - menus change and listings need updating either by patrons using the apps or the owners or staff themselves. I just cross checked the HappyCow app with Mad Greeks online menu and they align. I also just checked the listing for Suchadas Thai and it also matches with their own homepage. As does La Casa Lopez and Breakfast Cub. Indian restaurants almost always have accidental vegan options so I wouldnt be surprised if the HappyCow listing is still accurate as long as the restaurant is still open. Should I check the rest?

Edited to add: if you look at my images you can see that none of the 8 restaurants listed in Moscow are designated as vegan. They are designated as meat with vegetarian/vegan options available on request.
 
So, not only was there a serious road traffic accident so close to BK's home on the night of the murders but also the food delivery emanating from Pullman was delivered only minutes before he (allegedly) entered the house and did what he did. I'm not saying these incidents are connected but it's all just quite odd.
 
So, not only was there a serious road traffic accident so close to BK's home on the night of the murders but also the food delivery emanating from Pullman was delivered only minutes before he (allegedly) entered the house and did what he did. I'm not saying these incidents are connected but it's all just quite odd.

No indication the car accident had anything to do with BK.

 

From the links:

"2. Request 4: All footage provided to Forensic Examiners with FBI used to identify make and model of vehicle.
a. All reports generated related to the identification of the White Elantra.
b. All reports, communications and documentation related to the change in year of the White Elantra sought.
c. CV or credentials of Forensic Examiners."



If the NYT article is correct that they initially thought it was a Sentra, the state has a lot of explaining to do.


"The defense has been provided with a photograph of a DVD entered into evidence as Item 435, 23M-0085 labeled as “SW Audio. There is also a notation that this DVD was copied to county on 1/13/23."


Wonder what SW Audio is.
 
There's no evidence he ever said that. His public defender in PA said it (and it's standard public defender statement). That lawyer did not say, "Kohberger says he will be exonerated." Instead, the man spoke of Kohberger's mental state:


"He's eager to be exonerated."

I bet he is. Who wouldn't be? But we have absolutely no evidence that Kohberger ever used the word exonerated. I believe his defense attorney was simply saying what a good defense attorney says at that stage in the game.

I don't think it's fair to attribute that level of pomposity to the defendant. I suppose BK might in fact think of himself as superior to others; it's also possible he has a decided lack of the mental faculty called "second order processing," or "introspection." There are lots of people like that. They can be very good at what they do, especially if it doesn't require second order processing ("Why am I doing this? What did I just think? What did I just do?")

The PD never said it was a direct quote. And the PD never said it was a direct quote from Kohberger.

IMO. BBM
Thank you @10ofRods RE: direct quote from LaBar about BK going to be exonerated.
At 1m 30sec BK's PA public defender LaBar in live-on-camera TODAY interview said:

"He believes he's going to be exonerated. That's what he believes. Those were his words."

IDK if PD LaBar would go on camera saying BK said it if not true; possibly.
JMO

 
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