4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84

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BeginnerSleuther said:
I have a very, very hard time believing that some maniac killed 4 people in the dark in 15 minutes and left no other evidence behind except for touch DNA on a sheath. For me, that falls under the impossible category and would suggest that either he isn't the one or he or someone else cleaned up the crime scene.

JMO.
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One thing I would like to know is if DM witnessed the murderer wearing gloves or not. If there is no other touch DNA in the rooms where the victims were killed and none of his hand or fingerprints or DNA in the house, doesn't that suggest he must have had on gloves? If the murderer had on gloves, logically, he would not have shed DNA on the sheath at the time of the murders from his hands. Logically, that means either he touched the snap at some other time prior to the murders OR the DNA is wrong somehow. I believe this is why the defense wants information about how GG was done.
 
kittythehare said:
It's quite possible that he carried the knife in the sheath with the snap function unused. Just slipped it in there.
his single source dNA was there from before the night of the killings.
Snap could have been a tad stiff and he didn't need to use it, he only had to walk a few feet before pouncing upon his first two sleeping victims.
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Certainly possible. I assume it came in the sheath, for obvious reasons of packing and mailing. I also assume it came through the mail, given the subpoena information so carefully analyzed here. While it could be used without securing the snap, boy, that knife is so sharp and dangerous, it would be an unsafe way of carrying it (even if not on a belt). I assume he would not want it to slide out for any reason until ready for use.

I've also thought about our assumptions as to what he was wearing (dark clothing, right?) But was he wearing regular pants with a belt? It's possible. In that case, in order for the sheath to be left behind, he had to unbuckle his belt - which is why I've never really thought about it. Until the last couple of days.

I've been assuming that he brought the knife, sheathed, to the crime scene for safety reasons. He certainly did not want to nick himself and leave any of his own blood.

It's true that he could have bypassed the sheath (except for the times required to leave the single source DNA on the snap). I see him as entirely too concerned with neatness and "proper steps" to get a thing done for me to think he'd have stuck his newish knife in that sheath and not snapped it in.

But we just don't know. Above is of course speculation based on what I think I know from the PCA and other bits of evidence.



1688095097702.png1688095097702.png
 
kittythehare said:
It's quite possible that he carried the knife in the sheath with the snap function unused. Just slipped it in there.
his single source dNA was there from before the night of the killings.
Snap could have been a tad stiff and he didn't need to use it, he only had to walk a few feet before pouncing upon his first two sleeping victims.
Click to expand...

Certainly possible. I assume it came in the sheath, for obvious reasons of packing and mailing. I also assume it came through the mail, given the subpoena information so carefully analyzed here. While it could be used without securing the snap, boy, that knife is so sharp and dangerous, it would be an unsafe way of carrying it (even if not on a belt). I assume he would not want it to slide out for any reason until ready for use.

I've also thought about our assumptions as to what he was wearing (dark clothing, right?) But was he wearing regular pants with a belt? It's possible. In that case, in order for the sheath to be left behind, he had to unbuckle his belt - which is why I've never really thought about it. Until the last couple of days.

I've been assuming that he brought the knife, sheathed, to the crime scene for safety reasons. He certainly did not want to nick himself and leave any of his own blood.

It's true that he could have bypassed the sheath (except for the times required to leave the single source DNA on the snap). I see him as entirely too concerned with neatness and "proper steps" to get a thing done for me to think he'd have stuck his newish knife in that sheath and not snapped it in.

But we just don't know. Above is of course speculation based on what I think I know from the PCA and other bits of evidence.



View attachment 431964View attachment 431964
 
10ofRods said:
Certainly possible. I assume it came in the sheath, for obvious reasons of packing and mailing. I also assume it came through the mail, given the subpoena information so carefully analyzed here. While it could be used without securing the snap, boy, that knife is so sharp and dangerous, it would be an unsafe way of carrying it (even if not on a belt). I assume he would not want it to slide out for any reason until ready for use.

I've also thought about our assumptions as to what he was wearing (dark clothing, right?) But was he wearing regular pants with a belt? It's possible. In that case, in order for the sheath to be left behind, he had to unbuckle his belt - which is why I've never really thought about it. Until the last couple of days.

I've been assuming that he brought the knife, sheathed, to the crime scene for safety reasons. He certainly did not want to nick himself and leave any of his own blood.

It's true that he could have bypassed the sheath (except for the times required to leave the single source DNA on the snap). I see him as entirely too concerned with neatness and "proper steps" to get a thing done for me to think he'd have stuck his newish knife in that sheath and not snapped it in.

But we just don't know. Above is of course speculation based on what I think I know from the PCA and other bits of evidence.



View attachment 431964View attachment 431964
Click to expand...
Good points! We know about the DNA on the sheath. Has LE said that was his only DNA left at the bloody crime scene? If they haven't, isn't it possible he DID nick himself and that's why he forgot to grab the knife sheath from the bed?

JMO
 
Nila Aella said:
Your post made me recall the handprint on the slider and the swab taken from the kitchen window. MOO

D objection to protection order:

There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr. Kohberger’s apartment, office, home, or vehicle.


Agree, forensics would have detected a clean up and the timeline is too tight.MOO

There are multiple search warrants that are sealed completely. The 1122 King Road search warrant is sealed. We do not know everything LE found in the house. JMO

Click to expand...

Forensics would have detected the clean-up yes, but the Defense wouldn't be bringing up that part, at this point in time, would they? I don't think they would. Besides, doesn't everyone clean their car occasionally? Mere presence of cleaning products wouldn't mean much.

They're focused on the "no DNA" part (which was my big worry several threads ago - I think this crime was planned to keep as much victim blood off the perp as possible; that if Xana hadn't been up and about, there would have been no pool of blood near the door of her room for the perp to step in and there would have been no footprints - the latent footprints showing up so close to Xana's room tell me that there was not a lot of blood to step in, in the first place).

I do think it's possible for a DNA-aware criminal to plan a crime so that there's very little victim DNA on themselves AND to be very good at cleaning with ordinary products.

I've posted before about the complexity of taking off one set of clothes/gloves/shoes in a context where one did not want victim DNA in their car. I also believe that if one victim's DNA had been found in the car, the Defense would be claiming that said victim knew Kohberger and voluntarily gotten into the car, etc.

The car DNA is only an issue because of people's expectations, these days, about how to convict using DNA. It's just not simple and in this crime, the most important DNA is the unexpected find of Kohberger's DNA within the crime scene.

IMO.
 
Nila Aella said:
From the Defense objection to Protective Order: 6/22/23 page 3 paragraph 2

There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims.


IMO the pertinent Search Warrants (tik tok twitter tinder snap etc) would have been added to the motions to compel if the D hadn't received those items in discovery.
JMO

The 0.5 mile geofence warrant was for all records between 3-5 am Nov 13th. BKs phone was turned off. And there is no 6th Ammend reason given for sealing this warrant. This is the only ATT geofence warrant for 0.5 mile that I see. It is possible he had another phone that came up in this warrant, but why no 6th Ammend then?

I keep seeing this posted and am curious if there is another warrant you are aware of that shows BK within 1/2 mile of the residence?


View attachment 431919
View attachment 431920



edit: typo and added distance
ETA IMO
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I'm sure the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST) can triangulate BK within a 1/2 mile of the King Rd house on more than one occasion if he was a 1/2 mile of the King Rd house on more than one occasion.

One or more of the CAST experts will testify and have it up on the big screen for all to see.

The FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team​

The FBI maintains a specialized unit called the Cellular Analysis Survey Team, or CAST, that provides analyses of cell phone records and presents the information to law enforcement. We're going to take a look at a recent case in which CAST has played a pivotal role. READ ARTICLE FOR LORI VALLOW CASE

The diagram below shows how by measuring a cell phone's signal strength and the time it takes for a round-trip signal to be sent and received, the approximate location of the cell phone can be determined.

1688096748072.png
In the diagram, each concentric circle represents two miles (3.2 km), so a single cell tower can determine that a phone is between eight and 10 miles (16 km) away and within its alpha sector.

When a cell phone is in contact with a second cell tower, the ability to determine its location is improved, as shown in the diagram below. We see that the signal from the cell phone is coming from within the Blue Tower's alpha sector and from a distance of six to eight miles (10-12.8 km) away.

Data from the second, or Orange Tower, shows the signal is coming from its gamma sector at a distance of eight to twelve miles (12.8-19.3 km).

1688096794113.png
If the cell phone is in contact with a third tower, then its location can be pinpointed to an area of between two to six meters in size. The diagram below shows the signal as coming from the Green Tower's alpha sector and at a distance of between 10 and 12 miles (16-19.3 km).
1688097142044.png
interestingengineering.com

How Cell Phone Tracking Is Increasingly Being Used to Solve Crimes

While cell phone tracking raises privacy concerns, it also provides vital information when investigating crimes.
interestingengineering.com interestingengineering.com

FBI Teaches Law Enforcement How to Turn Your Cell Phone Against You | Criminal Legal News

www.criminallegalnews.org
 
kittythehare said:
do you have evidence of incompetence or just throwing it out there?
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Does the Defense have transcripts or tapes of all interrogations? If so, then perhaps I will agree they don't need the training info. But if they don't, how would they know if the interrogations were proper or (perhaps unintentionally) coercive?

I honestly don't know what all the Defense has been given. Many of you are much better than I at keeping track.
 
MyBelle said:
For the same reason they seized items from the car: see link in #717

JMO

Police also seized hiking boots, a shovel, goggles, gloves, floor mats, a band aid, maps, documents, and other items from the vehicle.
Click to expand...

So what would they have been looking for by dismantling the car if not victim DNA? What else would be in the brake pedal, the door panel, and the seatbelt button?

JMO
 
Charlot123 said:
Well, again, we come to the question of accurate triangulation when there is 8 miles distance between Moscow and Pullman. Maybe the same cell towers service both. I played with "find my phone" function. Depending on the day, I could see my phone in my house, in the neighborhood, or in the next town. Maybe there is some other way to determine the cell phone's position precisely. But unless I am explained what it is, I am skeptical.
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Find My iPhone uses GPS. Not triangulation. So it should be super accurate. Even in really bad weather. It’s so accurate that food delivery companies have to manipulate their live dot so their drivers won’t be in danger.

The only other way to determine your location on the client side would be by reading your IP and looking up the address of the ISP that owns that block.

Triangulation data is only available at the carrier level.

In the rapper YNW Melly Death Penalty case in Florida this evidence was challenged but eventually let in. Prosecutors were able to use cell phone triangulation data to put 4 people in the same car when two of them were murdered in a rural area. The technology has come a long way.
 
Nila Aella said:
From the Defense objection to Protective Order: 6/22/23 page 3 paragraph 2

There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims.


IMO the pertinent Search Warrants (tik tok twitter tinder snap etc) would have been added to the motions to compel if the D hadn't received those items in discovery.
JMO

The 0.5 mile geofence warrant was for all records between 3-5 am Nov 13th. BKs phone was turned off. And there is no 6th Ammend reason given for sealing this warrant. This is the only ATT geofence warrant for 0.5 mile that I see. It is possible he had another phone that came up in this warrant, but why no 6th Ammend then?

I keep seeing this posted and am curious if there is another warrant you are aware of that shows BK within 1/2 mile of the residence?


View attachment 431919
View attachment 431920



edit: typo and added distance
ETA IMO
Click to expand...
The point of mentioning the geo fence warrants is that they show it is possible to narrow down ping data to a radius of half mile around a given point. So on those 12 pre-crime occasions when BK's phone used cellular resources also used by those in residence at 1122 King Road, the implication is that he could have been within half a mile of that house. Anyway, I'm sure there will be several cell phone analysts testifying at the future trial. Moo

ETA: So I guess within half a mile may put into question any unsubstantiated claims that BK was doing some late night shopping some 1.6 miles away at, for example, the shopping precinct at the intersection of Farm Road and Pullman Highway on some and/or all of those occassions mentioned in the PCA.

ETA x2: Imo the completely sealed AT&T warrant,initially sealed on 6th or 7th January, is the second AT&T warrant LE was granted on 23rd December for BK phone data and includes the evidence of the 12 pre crime occasions BK's phone utilised the same cellular resources as 1122 King Road.
 
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BeginnerSleuther said:
So what would they have been looking for by dismantling the car if not victim DNA? What else would be in the brake pedal, the door panel, and the seatbelt button?

JMO
Click to expand...
Maps, the murder weapon, gloves he wore during the commission of the crime, a shovel to bury his bloody clothes just to name a few and by golly, evidence was seized. I'm really interested in the map and whether it was to the inside of the victims' home. I think he had been inside that home prior to the murders to case it out.

JMO
 
MyBelle said:
Maps, the murder weapon, gloves he wore during the commission of the crime, a shovel to bury his bloody clothes just to name a few and by golly, evidence was seized. I'm really interested in the map and whether it was to the inside of the victims' home. I think he had been inside that home prior to the murders to case it out.

JMO
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IMO
If I had evidence to dispose of I don’t think I’d be digging in the middle of winter (hard ground etc) too slow too visible
I d throw it in a body of water or burn it
 
MyBelle said:
Why would BK's defense attorney expect the victims' DNA be in BK's apartment office, home or vehicle? The victims' home was the crime scene. That doesn't make a whit of sense to me.

JMO
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They expect/hoped for DNA transfer. For instance blood from shoes to gas pedal.

MOO a criminologist studying crimes should know to strip and bag clothes after killing and have prepared the car with plastic, new gloves and a hat.
Drive somewhere remote, wipe down self and dispose of all crime items.
 
Boxer said:
They expect/hoped for DNA transfer. For instance blood from shoes to gas pedal.

MOO a criminologist studying crimes should know to strip and bag clothes after killing and have prepared the car with plastic, new gloves and a hat.
Drive somewhere remote, wipe down self and dispose of all crime items.
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Yep! I think BK did just that!

JMO
 
Boxer said:
They expect/hoped for DNA transfer. For instance blood from shoes to gas pedal.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Boxer said:
MOO a criminologist studying crimes should know to strip and bag clothes after killing and have prepared the car with plastic, new gloves and a hat.
Drive somewhere remote, wipe down self and dispose of all crime items.
Click to expand...

While I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the above, I do have to say you've been consistent in your opinion on the car, Boxer. Thank you.
 
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