4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84

[MinnesotaMary]

Don't know if you've pulled up 2013 vs 2016 but you wouldn't hardly be able to tell the difference unless you were feet away.
Will the defense try to dwell on the difference in year, you're so correct. I believe the Prosecution will probably show side by sides of years 2011 to 2016 to counter.
No offence at all, but I could see if it were pink with yellow polka dots or a VW bug vs the difference of the Elantra years at that distance, big issue. IMO, I'm thinking perhaps a jury wouldn't find it worry some after seeing the years comparison side by side.
Again, it's just my opinion and thoughts. Have no idea what defense will say or what a jury will accept.

IMO law enf' was profiling BrianK, and in the days, perhaps a few weeks (?? I dunno) before they arrested him, they were nonstop tailing him, and saying things publicly that were all wrong deliberately to shake the murderer's cage - makes total sense to me that, if BrianK did do this, the police would 'play really, really stupid/dumb', because if it is BrianK, BrianK totally thinks he's smarter than every human being put together....

 

[ktm44]

Petty theft in relation to a close family member is a whole different ball game. As an extremely empathetic person myself, I couldn't even imagine.

MOO

I understand that it feels different when someone steals from family but having some experience dealing with an ex spouse with addiction issues and a friend's son who is mentally ill, it's not as personal as you may believe.

When living in a house with other family members, there is simply greater opportunity to steal and once someone has been through rehab, their family members quickly forget what someone will do to feed an addiction and go out of their way to send non verbal cues that they love, support and trust them.

 

[Charlot123]

Are you from that area? I've thought that since BrianK's been arrested, those college community areas feel relief.... If BrianK did this, he's one scary, scary person----the way he was trying to wind up being 'police chief' or something - so, so scary how he was trying to get an entry level job as a 'crimonologist expert' - I bet the reason he wanted to have the police hire him was so that he could get into police computers and be able to know everything about everyone, all to fine-tune his spare time 'hobby'....

We can’t bet on this because we, really, don’t know a person’s intention. I would think, 1) because it was a good way to supplement his income; 2) because internship with the PD would look good on his resume, Ph.D + PD intern.

I can’t assume, he planned to look into the PD computers because we don’t know how he crossed paths with the residents of King Road house and what his plans were.

 

[maconrich]

There must be tremendous pressure on the police and FBI to discern who did this crime. If BK did not commit this crime then there is a killer on the loose, free to kill someone else. I think that fear is real in this community. Request for documentation for training and protocol is very important for the 3 officers. This allows the defense to pinpoint who else was interviewed, how they were interviewed and probably does a thorough review of a gap of time when the crimes were committed and reported. Police are human and this is not a major city where they are seasoned investigators. I dunno, there are so many unanswered questions.

Agree. But IF someone else did this, or was involved, I'd say they will either move far away or lay low hoping BK will be found guilty and they won't be noticed or implicated. (forgot to add MOO, IMO, etc)

 

[Wallendo]

So this has been bugging me for a while. Is the WS community investigating the case or are they trying to litigate it? I am often trying to figure out the facts (not argue them in a court of law). It seems like it's more law focused? Which is super interesting, but less investigative. I'm sure they go hand in hand but I'm finding a lot more arguing the case than trying to figure what happened. Newbie here so it's really a humble question.

My personal observations about this case, and many others, is that cases go through phases, and different members have varying interests in different phases.

Many posters enjoy the sleuthing phase - the problem solving - the whodunit. In this case that involves the food truck, the sidewalk video, the sorority driver, and the Sigma Chi house. When BK, who was on nobody's radar at the time, was arrested and many users' personal theories were eliminated, many lost interest in the case.

We are now in the pretrial phase and new users become involved. Many users are motivated by justice for the victims and legal wrangling.

When a trial eventually comes around, a whole new set of trial junkies will arrive.

Websleuths has a heterogeneous membership and different people have different interests in cases.

I still follow this case because I believe there was a specific reason this house and at least one occupant was targeted. Hopefully there will be some information at trial to address this

 

[Charlot123]

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Generally speaking, I think it is mostly people, who don't really understand how it works. Fear of the unknown. Throw in some of the tinfoil-hatty folks in the dark corners of the internet who yell about "my privacy" and "my rights" in a conspiracy theorist sort of a way, and you mostly have that covered, IMO.

Then there is also the fact that there is little else to attack of the evidence. (Well, cell towers were also raised, as they are by no means able to place him exactly into the house. I am optimistic that there is other direct data that is able to (wi-fi handshake, gps).) But DNA and especially GG seems to be just such a politicized topic (in the US) that it's a nice distraction.

<modsnip: off topic>

Moreover, people are bewildered about "how could he have been so stupid" when he was "a phd student in criminology". But first, he was not so stupid. While he did quite some stupid mistakes, he also got some things right. AFAWK, the murder weapon has never been found. He at least disabled the network services of his phone. AFAWK, he himself is not on video in an incriminating way and even the car is on somewhat less video than one would expect. And second, he had no real background in criminology. He had a degree in psychology and an online degree in criminal justice. And while he got accepted to the phd, he was also obviously not doing well there. People tend to overestimate his educational background and underestimate the difficulty of committing such a crime (especially with an emotional motive, that I personally believe was there).

Too long, but it's morning in my hood and my brain is kinda lagging. All MOO.

I think differently.

We had several high-profile cases where DNA was the crucial element in helping to apprehend the killers. However, in all these cases the distant cousins didn’t mind being mentioned post factum and the LE was super open about their steps.

So the question, “show me how tree that you made led to BK” is as normal as “did luminol test indicate evidence of blood” for example. It is when there is a refusal to demonstrate genealogy work that I start wondering, and mostly, the simplest thing. I have two questions. First, did they run the sample against “opted in” DNAs or all database? The question, essentially, is about the integrity of Gedmatch. BTW, it is not about LE. As a paying consumer, I have the right to ask questions about all DNA companies I use. In the time when GG boom is over, they are left sitting on the trove of DNAs. I don’t want them to make money on something we, the customers, once paid for without telling us.

My second question is simpler, did they use Gedmatch at all? Imagine that someone merely “tipped him in” and LE compared the DNA on the sheath with the thrash DNA, and there was a 50% match. It is all good, but might raise questions about the integrity of the tipper, what are the tipper’s motives, or even, could that person place the sheath?

It is not tinfoil. Rather, PCA showed a strong, but essentially, single connection between the house and BK. Elantra’s year might have been their mistake, but they now have to accept the consequences, mostly, everyone seeing that their expertise was not great. And - anyone might have a trouble determining the year in the darkness, but then, simply widen the time interval if you don’t know, sorry. Or perhaps, it was a different Elantra. The pings I am especially critical of. The DNA - yes, has to be a strong connection, but there’d better be other evidence of BK being in the house that night.

 

[ilovewings]

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I think differently.

We had several high-profile cases where DNA was the crucial element in helping to apprehend the killers. However, in all these cases the distant cousins didn’t mind being mentioned post factum and the LE was super open about their steps.

So the question, “show me how tree that you made led to BK” is as normal as “did luminol test indicate evidence of blood” for example. It is when there is a refusal to demonstrate genealogy work that I start wondering, and mostly, the simplest thing. I have two questions. First, did they run the sample against “opted in” DNAs or all database? The question, essentially, is about the integrity of Gedmatch. BTW, it is not about LE. As a paying consumer, I have the right to ask questions about all DNA companies I use. In the time when GG boom is over, they are left sitting on the trove of DNAs. I don’t want them to make money on something we, the customers, once paid for without telling us.

My second question is simpler, did they use Gedmatch at all? Imagine that someone merely “tipped him in” and LE compared the DNA on the sheath with the thrash DNA, and there was a 50% match. It is all good, but might raise questions about the integrity of the tipper, what are the tipper’s motives, or even, could that person place the sheath?

It is not tinfoil. Rather, PCA showed a strong, but essentially, single connection between the house and BK. Elantra’s year might have been their mistake, but they now have to accept the consequences, mostly, everyone seeing that their expertise was not great. And - anyone might have a trouble determining the year in the darkness, but then, simply widen the time interval if you don’t know, sorry. Or perhaps, it was a different Elantra. The pings I am especially critical of. The DNA - yes, has to be a strong connection, but there’d better be other evidence of BK being in the house that night.

why do you think there would be any other evidence in that house? There may be a foot print I am not sure about that, but what if there isn't any other evidence but that DNA on the knife sheath? The DNA left behind on the sheath is pretty damning and very very significant. That said, there is so much about this case we do not know, we are not privy to-we really have to wait for the trial to see what the prosecution has and how the defense will respond to it.

 

[schooling]

.


I think differently.

We had several high-profile cases where DNA was the crucial element in helping to apprehend the killers. However, in all these cases the distant cousins didn’t mind being mentioned post factum and the LE was super open about their steps.

So the question, “show me how tree that you made led to BK” is as normal as “did luminol test indicate evidence of blood” for example. It is when there is a refusal to demonstrate genealogy work that I start wondering, and mostly, the simplest thing. I have two questions. First, did they run the sample against “opted in” DNAs or all database? The question, essentially, is about the integrity of Gedmatch. BTW, it is not about LE. As a paying consumer, I have the right to ask questions about all DNA companies I use. In the time when GG boom is over, they are left sitting on the trove of DNAs. I don’t want them to make money on something we, the customers, once paid for without telling us.

My second question is simpler, did they use Gedmatch at all? Imagine that someone merely “tipped him in” and LE compared the DNA on the sheath with the thrash DNA, and there was a 50% match. It is all good, but might raise questions about the integrity of the tipper, what are the tipper’s motives, or even, could that person place the sheath?

It is not tinfoil. Rather, PCA showed a strong, but essentially, single connection between the house and BK. Elantra’s year might have been their mistake, but they now have to accept the consequences, mostly, everyone seeing that their expertise was not great. And - anyone might have a trouble determining the year in the darkness, but then, simply widen the time interval if you don’t know, sorry. Or perhaps, it was a different Elantra. The pings I am especially critical of. The DNA - yes, has to be a strong connection, but there’d better be other evidence of BK being in the house that night.

Could you please cite all of these cases or even some where a distant cousin explicitly agreed or stated that they didn’t mind being mentioned? Beyond the checkbox agreeing to share information with law enforcement?

I follow a subreddit dedicated to cold cases being solved using genealogical dna and can’t remember reading about any such cases.

In most of the cases I’ve seen LE rarely ever reaches out directly to family members (so they don’t tip off the perp) to narrow the pool. They instead rely on public records and even social media to do the vast majority of their work. Contact is rarely ever made until they have a single suspect.

I’m not saying that I don’t believe you. I’m honestly genuinely interested because at every family get together I inevitably (after a few drinks) bring up this interesting topic of dna and public databases. My family has an inordinate amount of people participating. I have at least a dozen first cousins in the database which I way beyond the norm.

 

[Balthazar]

IMO law enf' was profiling BrianK, and in the days, perhaps a few weeks (?? I dunno) before they arrested him, they were nonstop tailing him, and saying things publicly that were all wrong deliberately to shake the murderer's cage - makes total sense to me that, if BrianK did do this, the police would 'play really, really stupid/dumb', because if it is BrianK, BrianK totally thinks he's smarter than every human being put together....

I agree that they were onto him. I think this is why LE never showed the public an actual photo or video of the vehicle in question which seemed very strange at the time since they had video of it. IMO, this is also why the Defense is asking for more information to find out which came first, the chicken (BK) or the egg (DNA test).

All IMOO.

 

[U.N. Known]

do you have evidence of incompetence or just throwing it out there?

Kittythehare: I have not and will not make baseless accusations nor, I'll add just in case, suggest or believe conspiracies, rumors or random internet speculation. When I have my own ideas/opinions, they are ALWAYS stated as such-- PERIOD.

As to your specific question: NEITHER. You have apparently misunderstood my comment as neither the word incompetence nor any phrases that suggest it were used. See the above for clarification.

 

[MyBelle]

.


I think differently.

We had several high-profile cases where DNA was the crucial element in helping to apprehend the killers. However, in all these cases the distant cousins didn’t mind being mentioned post factum and the LE was super open about their steps.

So the question, “show me how tree that you made led to BK” is as normal as “did luminol test indicate evidence of blood” for example. It is when there is a refusal to demonstrate genealogy work that I start wondering, and mostly, the simplest thing. I have two questions. First, did they run the sample against “opted in” DNAs or all database? The question, essentially, is about the integrity of Gedmatch. BTW, it is not about LE. As a paying consumer, I have the right to ask questions about all DNA companies I use. In the time when GG boom is over, they are left sitting on the trove of DNAs. I don’t want them to make money on something we, the customers, once paid for without telling us.

My second question is simpler, did they use Gedmatch at all? Imagine that someone merely “tipped him in” and LE compared the DNA on the sheath with the thrash DNA, and there was a 50% match. It is all good, but might raise questions about the integrity of the tipper, what are the tipper’s motives, or even, could that person place the sheath?

It is not tinfoil. Rather, PCA showed a strong, but essentially, single connection between the house and BK. Elantra’s year might have been their mistake, but they now have to accept the consequences, mostly, everyone seeing that their expertise was not great. And - anyone might have a trouble determining the year in the darkness, but then, simply widen the time interval if you don’t know, sorry. Or perhaps, it was a different Elantra. The pings I am especially critical of. The DNA - yes, has to be a strong connection, but there’d better be other evidence of BK being in the house that night.

If you read the fine print when you purchase something, anything, you'll find paying consumers don't have any rights when it comes to law enforcement investigating crimes.

The DNA on the knife sheath IS incredibly strong EVIDENCE that the jury will not ignore.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

If there's nothing to be worried about they can hand over the training records and that will be the end of it.

The state did, however, object to turning over the officers’ training records. More than 100 officers worked on the case at some point, and turning over the training records of three officers would create the same possibility for all of them, prosecutors said.

The state also noted that the officers’ training records do not pertain to the case and could set an unfavourable precedent in future cases.

Bryan Kohberger’s attorney seeks forensic, police training records

Kohberger is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[catgirlx]

The state did, however, object to turning over the officers’ training records. More than 100 officers worked on the case at some point, and turning over the training records of three officers would create the same possibility for all of them, prosecutors said.

The state also noted that the officers’ training records do not pertain to the case and could set an unfavourable precedent in future cases.

Bryan Kohberger’s attorney seeks forensic, police training records

Kohberger is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves.

www.newsnationnow.com

Of course they did. That happened days ago. <modsnip: snarky>

 

[MyBelle]

why do you think there would be any other evidence in that house? There may be a foot print I am not sure about that, but what if there isn't any other evidence but that DNA on the knife sheath? The DNA left behind on the sheath is pretty damning and very very significant. That said, there is so much about this case we do not know, we are not privy to-we really have to wait for the trial to see what the prosecution has and how the defense will respond to it.

Good points! In this case, there isn't just the DNA from the knife sheath. There also is the witness who saw a stranger with "bushy eyebrows" coming from the crime scene bedroom AND a footprint that matches her recollection as to where in the home she saw him. iirc, her description is what led LE to connect BK to the car he was driving and connect it to the crime. I noticed BK's skull does protrude his eyebrow area and is very distinctive.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I might be looking in the wrong place, but I think that's not the same thing. I don't think we know when they had a name produced from the genetic genealogy. If they took dna from the sheath and got a name from his matches and building out a tree--that's almost as good as having a CODIS match. You just need to confirm it with his dna or a close family member. You're pretty confident this is your guy. If your experts have said the white car is a Sentra and this guy drives an Elantra and then they say oh, wait, on second thought, it's Elantra--that's obviously a problem, to say the least. The name is leading you to the car and the car is not the car you first said it was. The expert might say, well, I was wrong, it really is an Elantra, but, as a jury member who doesn't know cars, I'd probably be looking at the grainy video and thinking--maybe it IS a Sentra and he's not being truthful.

What the PCA says and what the articles say, is that on 11/29 local agencies were told to look out for an Elantra. The WSU officer ran a check on all Elantras registered to students and BK was on that list. Another WSU officer also spotted a white Elantra and ran the tags. These tips were passed on to an investigator. In this case, the car came before the name. They had the name because of the car, not the car because of the name.

The PCA says that by 11/25 they knew it was an Elantra. Was 12 days after the murders sufficient time to have a name from the dna on the sheath and they knew it was an Elantra because that's what that name drove? If they had the name by 11/25 and that's how they knew it was an Elantra, why were they waiting until 11/29 to run the tags on BKs car. Doesn't really make sense.

I don't really know why they would release 2011-2013. Like you said, they had a name 11/29 and already knew what he drove but in December they released 2011-2013?

I don't think I'm being clear. I'm saying they had his name before they changed the date on the Elantra. They said 2011 - 2013 Elantra. Then WSU turns over BK's name. Then they say the Elantra could be a 2011 - 2016.

I'd also be curious about when the supposed Sentra gaffe happened.

 

[Cindizzi]

AMA = Ask Me Anything

https://twitter.com/x/status/1674468052208066560

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think it depends on how and why the model years changed. Perhaps when BK's car was reported, and possibly a few things began to line up, they went back to the FBI expert and asked if they could say whether or not the videos they had would exclude a 2015 model? And perhaps the FBI expert looked again and said, "actually, no, they don't exclude that model year". I think a scenario like that would be perfectly understandable to the jury. MOOooo

I think a scenario like that weakens the state's case. JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I am not 100% convinced it was him. I simply don't think one source of DNA and a misdated Elantra is enough to convince me. This being said, I do not have the feeling that he was innocent, either. There just need to be more facts to decide, either way.

In agreement. 100%.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Don't know if you've pulled up 2013 vs 2016 but you wouldn't hardly be able to tell the difference unless you were feet away.
Will the defense try to dwell on the difference in year, you're so correct. I believe the Prosecution will probably show side by sides of years 2011 to 2016 to counter.
No offence at all, but I could see if it were pink with yellow polka dots or a VW bug vs the difference of the Elantra years at that distance, big issue. IMO, I'm thinking perhaps a jury wouldn't find it worry some after seeing the years comparison side by side.
Again, it's just my opinion and thoughts. Have no idea what defense will say or what a jury will accept.

This was discussed in previous threads and several posters were able to point out differences. @Montecore1 may be able to add more to this.

You're right that I can't point out the differences, but I'm not into cars. I'm certainly not an FBI car expert. I expect the defense will have an auto expert on the witness stand pointing out all the differences.

You're right, I think a jury might find it worrisome.

JMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

why do you think there would be any other evidence in that house? There may be a foot print I am not sure about that, but what if there isn't any other evidence but that DNA on the knife sheath? The DNA left behind on the sheath is pretty damning and very very significant. That said, there is so much about this case we do not know, we are not privy to-we really have to wait for the trial to see what the prosecution has and how the defense will respond to it.

I have a very, very hard time believing that some maniac killed 4 people in the dark in 15 minutes and left no other evidence behind except for touch DNA on a sheath. For me, that falls under the impossible category and would suggest that either he isn't the one or he or someone else cleaned up the crime scene.

JMO.