4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

[Nila Aella]

Just something I ran across last night that I have not seen before, checked it again this morning:
The Latah County jail roster is not showing offenses for anyone listed on the website. Website glitch, updating or is something up? JMO

edit: removed link - not working

Latah County | Jail Roster

jail.latah.id.us

edit: trying new link

 

[Megnut]

(Do we know what the alleged exculpatory evidence is? Is it from the IEytan playbook from another case -- the unknown male DNA? Was it, say, found on the outside of the sheath and later linked to a population, centered around the factory where the sheath was fabricated? Logic would say that DNA was left by factory workers who had no occasion to be Moscow murdering people, and no evidence of the same. Or was the male DNA found on a windowsill or a door and no real profile could be built? -- a loose end. That happens. Perhaps no Codus hit, no budget for genealogy, and while those leads hit a wall, data came pouring in which linked BK on multiple fronts --)

(These are some random thoughts, rolling around loosely in my head. A whole lot of jmo.)

 

[arielilane]

In a nutshell, Judge Judge ordered the training records pertaining to 3 peripheral officers (peripheral, meaning the prosecution does not plan to call them) be provided to the Defense. I understand the State's argument, essentially the Pros is saying the records do not pertain to officers who will testify to their case in chief so they shouldn't have to provide them but the Judge interpreted the case law and said, turn them over. The Defense wants them to help prepare for their case and examination of witnesses. They are training records of 3 officers minutely involved in the big scheme of the prosecution's case. They won't even be on the stand, except if called by Defense. The Pros should have just turned them over. They will have so little impact on the case and the Defense wanted them. They will now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676204639895601152

https://twitter.com/CoffindafferFBI

 

[10ofRods]

I just want to mention that my discussion of VSS has nothing to do with Idaho's rules on "mental illness" but is only about trying to discuss Kohberger's life history and situation.

Although, his Defense could make his background part of what they present on his behalf during the penalty phase of the trial.

And again, I have no clue what Idaho case law says about that phase of the trial or what Idaho jurors have deemed to be important to consider.

JMO. I just have an interest in the life histories and backgrounds of all parties in a case.

 

[Dexter12]

Post to Boxer: The article you linked about "conflicting accounts" of the 2 surviving roommates is quite the stretch.The only account after the murders was DM's and there is no information from BF that is public regarding a statement from her after murders and what she saw or heard. Facts matter.

 

[ilovewings]

Bryan Kohberger's team granted access to officers' training records

Kohberger, 28, is accused of fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students in Moscow, Idaho, in November 2022.

www.newsweek.com

ON 7/4/23 AT 6:45 AM EDT

A judge has granted Bryan Kohberger's defense team access to the training records of three police officers involved in the investigation of the murders of four University of Idaho students. [..]

Kohberger's attorney, public defender Anne Taylor, petitioned the judge for Kohberger's cellphone location data and a forensic analyst's determination about the suspect's vehicle during the June 27 hearing.

The judge set a July 14 deadline for the FBI records to be turned over, the Idaho Statesmanreported.

I don't agree with the judge's decision. I think it is a fishing expedition but so be it. I do think in death penalty cases judges bend over backwards for a defendant. We all know if the defendant is found guilty there will be appeals so judges go the extra mile for the defendant IMO

 

[10ofRods]

(Do we know what the alleged exculpatory evidence is? Is it from the IEytan playbook from another case -- the unknown male DNA? Was it, say, found on the outside of the sheath and later linked to a population, centered around the factory where the sheath was fabricated? Logic would say that DNA was left by factory workers who had no occasion to be Moscow murdering people, and no evidence of the same. Or was the male DNA found on a windowsill or a door and no real profile could be built? -- a loose end. That happens. Perhaps no Codus hit, no budget for genealogy, and while those leads hit a wall, data came pouring in which linked BK on multiple fronts --)

(These are some random thoughts, rolling around loosely in my head. A whole lot of jmo.)typo

I don't think we know, but due to a possible typo in the Daily Mail, some people think that BF saw a different (naked) man at her window that night. I believe this to be rumor and I do not have the DM link (and everything that comes up on google is, tellingly, an unapproved source).

However, I do believe the Defense might actually be trying to establish that the two survivors saw two different people.

The unknown male DNA was sure to be discovered because there's no way that there wouldn't be at least some, somewhere. It *should* be on the sheath. It should be easy for a good expert witness to demolish that (if the Court even allows this type of defense). If it's factory workers, there will be markers from the region of manufacturer (Northern Mexico, I believe).

Loose ends do indeed happen. For the Defense to make much of an issue of that, they'll need a very odd sort of expert witness, IMO.

I think the Defense will also make a big deal of the car. In the past two weeks, the most jarring new claim by the Defense is their claim that there's no sign of connections between Kohberger and any of the victims - including no DNA from the victims in his car or apartment (said the Defense). As many of us theorized here, Kohberger did a good job planning the crime (in terms of how much blood got spread around). And of course, we don't know the true state of the evidence.

JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

In a nutshell, Judge Judge ordered the training records pertaining to 3 peripheral officers (peripheral, meaning the prosecution does not plan to call them) be provided to the Defense. I understand the State's argument, essentially the Pros is saying the records do not pertain to officers who will testify to their case in chief so they shouldn't have to provide them but the Judge interpreted the case law and said, turn them over. The Defense wants them to help prepare for their case and examination of witnesses. They are training records of 3 officers minutely involved in the big scheme of the prosecution's case. They won't even be on the stand, except if called by Defense. The Pros should have just turned them over. They will have so little impact on the case and the Defense wanted them. They will now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676204639895601152

https://twitter.com/CoffindafferFBI

I think it needed to be ordered by the Judge. These are three real humans, with real lives and reputations. No employer is just going to "hand over" personnel records on someone, IMO.

A court order is the way to go. Further, what if there is something important in those documents? Does the Defense want them thrown out after a long fight over whether they got those documents in a legal manner?

Always best to go through the Court, IMO.

Does the State even have the records? I was assuming that the order would compel Moscow PD to produce them (not the State). Everyone will get the records, of course.

IMO.

 

[Sundog]

In a nutshell, Judge Judge ordered the training records pertaining to 3 peripheral officers (peripheral, meaning the prosecution does not plan to call them) be provided to the Defense. I understand the State's argument, essentially the Pros is saying the records do not pertain to officers who will testify to their case in chief so they shouldn't have to provide them but the Judge interpreted the case law and said, turn them over. The Defense wants them to help prepare for their case and examination of witnesses. They are training records of 3 officers minutely involved in the big scheme of the prosecution's case. They won't even be on the stand, except if called by Defense. The Pros should have just turned them over. They will have so little impact on the case and the Defense wanted them. They will now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676204639895601152

https://twitter.com/CoffindafferFBI

The judge found legal precedents and ruled accordingly, he wants to do everything in his power to make sure there are no grounds for appeal in this case.

I remember the prosecution saying that they didn't want to give over the training materials because it would set a precedent, with potentially hundreds of officers and training materials that could potentially be requested.

 

[Boxer]

Post to Boxer: The article you linked about "conflicting accounts" of the 2 surviving roommates is quite the stretch.The only account after the murders was DM's and there is no information from BF that is public regarding a statement from her after murders and what she saw or heard. Facts matter.

THE Defense subpeona-ing BF suggests there is an angle that matters to them, or at least generating a lot of smoke matters to them.

 

[Boxer]

BK is not "poor." His parents have a large spread in a private community. He was in a PhD progam. Prosperous.
It's just that the cost of defending against murder would break most Americans.

Meanwhile the citizens of Idaho are paying for both his prosecution and defense, as well as most of the investigation.

If the defense and prosecution are 2 million each and the investigation was 2 million (good estimates I think) the 765,000 working people of Idaho are paying 8 dollars each for the investigation, prosecution and defense.
Hopefully then add his ultimate probable incarceration and appeals for life.

Idaho | Data USA

In 2022, Idaho had a population of 1.85M people with a median age of 36.9 and a median household income of $70,214. Between 2021 and 2022 the population of Idaho grew from 1.81M to 1.85M, a 2.35% increase and its median household income grew from $63,377 to $70,214, a 10.8% increase.

datausa.io

 

[samsmom]

Gray Hughes goes over the pca.

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[Teche]

I just want to mention that my discussion of VSS has nothing to do with Idaho's rules on "mental illness" but is only about trying to discuss Kohberger's life history and situation.

Although, his Defense could make his background part of what they present on his behalf during the penalty phase of the trial.

And again, I have no clue what Idaho case law says about that phase of the trial or what Idaho jurors have deemed to be important to consider.

JMO. I just have an interest in the life histories and backgrounds of all parties in a case.

Has Bryan officially been diagnosed with VSS or did he self-diagnose? Has he been diagnosed as being on the spectrum? Bryan seems to display some of those traits of being on the spectrum (social cues, difficulty with personal relationships, etc).

 

[sassyblue]

As a citizen that $8 is a good investment in stopping what I think he would have become...a serial killer.

 

[Boxer]

As a citizen that $8 is a good investment in stopping what I think he would have become...a serial killer.

I agree. But it is good to know who at core is providing the energy to get a killer out of circulation.
Just a tidbit along the way, there are 8 inmates on Idaho's death row.

 

[Cool Cats]

BK is not "poor." His parents have a large spread in a private community. He was in a PhD progam. Prosperous.
It's just that the cost of defending against murder would break most Americans.

Meanwhile the citizens of Idaho are paying for both his prosecution and defense, as well as most of the investigation.

If the defense and prosecution are 2 million each and the investigation was 2 million (good estimates I think) the 765,000 working people of Idaho are paying 8 dollars each for the investigation, prosecution and defense.
Hopefully then add his ultimate probable incarceration and appeals for life.

Idaho | Data USA

In 2022, Idaho had a population of 1.85M people with a median age of 36.9 and a median household income of $70,214. Between 2021 and 2022 the population of Idaho grew from 1.81M to 1.85M, a 2.35% increase and its median household income grew from $63,377 to $70,214, a 10.8% increase.

datausa.io

Latah County prosecutor asks for $135,000 for trial expenses, a big jump from normal $15,000​

Kohberger case prompts hefty budget request

As the Latah County Prosecutor’s Office prepares for the trial of the Moscow quadruple murder suspect, it is asking the county for a significant increase in its trial expense budget.

www.lmtribune.com

• Jun 14, 2023

“It’s hard to project exactly what’s going to be involved,” he said. “We know that it’s not going to be cheap.”

According to Thompson’s request, trial expenses include paying for the services of expert witnesses, witness travel fees, transcript fees and exhibit displays.

Thompson said his office is trying to keep its budget projections as conservative as possible, but at the same time “we need to make sure that we don’t cut corners on anything with regard to making sure this case is handled properly.”
Commissioner Kathie LaFortune expressed her support and even suggested he raise his request to $150,000 for trial expenses to safely cover any future costs.

 

[Eagle2123]

Just a few thoughts. Has anyone thought that maybe the accused has attempted to do this crime before but chickened out? Maybe explain the many trips to the address before the murders? Why choose a weekend with a football game where lots of college kids party until the sun comes up? Does that explain why he drove by the house numerous times? Was he waiting on the lights in the house to finally go off? I’ve always questioned the timing of it? He waits another week and 80% of the students are heading out of town that Sunday, would’ve really muddied the investigation imo. Just odd to me. Any chance he was under the influence of something and just finally built up the courage or did something happen that week that made him snap And finally go for it? Just so many questions

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Has Bryan officially been diagnosed with VSS or did he self-diagnose? Has he been diagnosed as being on the spectrum? Bryan seems to display some of those traits of being on the spectrum (social cues, difficulty with personal relationships, etc).

We aren't allowed to discuss BK's mental health diagnoses or not here aside from VSS because breach of T&Cs.

However, we do know that he was chronically overweight as a youngster, worked hard to lose that weight but subsequently fell into substance addiction and specifically heroin addiction. We do know that he struggled socially and conversationally from accounts given by various people. We also know he had been found to be inappropriately behaved in his university campus - place of work and study, resulting in his dismissal and 'trespassing' from the grounds.

There is also rumour that he was behaving unusually in other environments such as university social spaces and bars 'staring' at people and speaking inappropriately mostly to women 'being creepy'. We also know he was awake overnights in a quite unusual way, going night running, and even behaving antisocially making noise doing cleaning in the small hours which disturbed a neighbour. There was some talk that he'd once seemed unusual asking for a household's pots and pans to be replaced due to his veganism (however, that's not too odd IMO as a strict vegetarian myself!).

We know he was a poor driver and had multiple traffic stops and during at least one of those, reading between the lines there was a certain dynamic in the way that he communicated and questioned the female officer.

I am not a psychiatrist or psychologist but I do know if all of those behaviours and traits were showing up in someone, it leans towards something isn't right and there's an overarching 'something' going on that this person isn't reaching their full potential, isn't fitting in, is struggling, looks uneasy, is in some form of discomfort. And that is not involving any criminal behaviour, just based on how their life is going and how they're 'being'.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Just a few thoughts. Has anyone thought that maybe the accused has attempted to do this crime before but chickened out? Maybe explain the many trips to the address before the murders? Why choose a weekend with a football game where lots of college kids party until the sun comes up? Does that explain why he drove by the house numerous times? Was he waiting on the lights in the house to finally go off? I’ve always questioned the timing of it? He waits another week and 80% of the students are heading out of town that Sunday, would’ve really muddied the investigation imo. Just odd to me. Any chance he was under the influence of something and just finally built up the courage or did something happen that week that made him snap And finally go for it? Just so many questions

I would imagine so. JMO MOO

I do feel it's remarkable that it was one of the victim's final night ever in the house and this seems to coincide with the fact that most young women who are murdered by someone they know are killed at the time they attempt to 'end / leave' the relationship.

I am not in any way suggesting that anyone in the house was in a relationship with BK or any murderer but if they were being stalked or that person was fixated on them or had come to know information about them, it could have been a driving factor time wise.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

"Dream Team"

Adding to
@Nila Aella's list:

Defense Team:

Anne C. Taylor - Chief Public Defender
Jay W. Logsdon - Chief Deputy of Litigation
Elisa G. Massoth - Criminal Defense Attorney - Represented two clients to exoneration after wrongful convictions.

Bicka Barlow - DNA consultant
Stephen B Mercer - DNA consultant

Matthew Noedel - Crime scene investigator featured in a documentary reconstruction of rapper Tupac Shakur's death.

Jeff Nye - Deputy attorney general -- Criminal law division
Ingrid Batey - Deputy attorney general - Criminal law division

Bryan Kohberger claims DNA from three other men found at scene of Idaho murders

Mr Kohberger’s attorneys are fighting against the state’s use of genetic genealogy to tie him to the brutal murders of Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle

www.independent.co.uk

Moscow homicide prosecution adds two state attorneys to team ahead of preliminary hearing

The county prosecution in the University of Idaho student homicides has added two state attorneys to its legal team in pursuit of four first-degree murder charges against defendant Bryan Kohberger, a case that qualifies for the death penalty should they seek it.

www.spokesman.com

Bryan Kohberger's defense team hires expert who investigated Tupac's death

The influential rapper was killed by an unknown gunman in a drive-by shooting in Las Vegas in 1996.

www.newsweek.com