4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

[ArianeEmory]

MOO Well that is sad.

Kyle Rittenhouse's defense was 2 million for example, and it gained aquittal.
I figure that case had about the same complexity and media Kohbergers defense will have.

Aside from Kohberger’s small fan club of hybristophiles, at least this case isn’t politicized.

 

[schooling]

True.
Maybe this state funded PD team isn't going to go that high.

He has some very heavy talent on his team, <modsnip>

The amount they are going to be paid in free PR is immeasurable.

You don't take/opt-in to a case like this because you think BK is innocent or being railroaded. You do it to get your name in the headlines and increase your fees going forward.

It's also a lot safer to do it in a case like this one. Where pretty much no one is expecting BK to beat the case based on the evidence we've seen so far. So losing doesn't hurt you. In the worst case scenario...you get your name and your work in national headlines. Best case...you beat the odds and get BK off. Which launches your career into the stratosphere.

It's a win win.

<modsnip - off topic>

 

[MyBelle]

True.
Maybe this state funded PD team isn't going to go that high.

He has some very heavy talent on his team, <modsnip>

His state-paid public defender is going to be paid the same whether she wins or loses this case. Her job is to provide the best defense possible so her expertise won't be the basis of his appeal.

<modsnip - off topic>

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The amount they are going to be paid in free PR is immeasurable.

You don't take/opt-in to a case like this because you think BK is innocent or being railroaded. You do it to get your name in the headlines and increase your fees going forward.

It's also a lot safer to do it in a case like this one. Where pretty much no one is expecting BK to beat the case based on the evidence we've seen so far. So losing doesn't hurt you. In the worst case scenario...you get your name and your work in national headlines. Best case...you beat the odds and get BK off. Which launches your career into the stratosphere.

It's a win win.

<modsnip - off topic>

BK's attorney was appointed by the Court. It's her job as Public Defender.
<modsnip - off topic>

JMO

 

[Boxer]

His state-paid public defender is going to be paid the same whether she wins or loses this case. Her job is to provide the best defense possible so her expertise won't be the basis of his appeal.

<modsnip - off topic>

JMO

MOO just looking for comparable complexity and media attention.

MOO the prosecution is only seekng 130,000. I hope they are asking enough to cover all they need.

 

[MyBelle]

MOO just looking for comparable complexity and media attention.

MOO the prosecution is only seekng 130,000. I hope they are asking enough to cover all they need.

They can always ask for more if they need it.

<modsnip - off topic>

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

The amount they are going to be paid in free PR is immeasurable.

You don't take/opt-in to a case like this because you think BK is innocent or being railroaded. You do it to get your name in the headlines and increase your fees going forward.

It's also a lot safer to do it in a case like this one. Where pretty much no one is expecting BK to beat the case based on the evidence we've seen so far. So losing doesn't hurt you. In the worst case scenario...you get your name and your work in national headlines. Best case...you beat the odds and get BK off. Which launches your career into the stratosphere.

It's a win win.

Jose Baez has shown us all the way. For Hire expert Dr Henry Lee (no knock to the guy, he's brilliant) did so long before him.

The way they win this Case is by keeping their client off of death row. If BK gets a death sentence it wouldn't look good because a death penalty attorney's main job - with overwhelming evidence - is to plea bargain to get the DP dropped. The last thing they want for their client and for their careers is to have their client end up sentenced under the DP.

All the defense has left at this point is to get evidence thrown out.....You see it in the Motions filed.....

DNA.
LE witness interviews and investigative techniques (personnel training records)
The evidence that linked them to BK.
The evidence that linked them to BK's car.

Or get the entire GJ indictment dismissed which tanks the Case completely and the prosecution has to start all over again.

They are turning over every stone to find exculpatory evidence - that the judge will allow - just looking at the training records doesn't mean they can use those records at trial.

Legal Limits​

Naturally then, the arguments come down to what, exactly constitutes exculpatory evidence. Recently, courts have been considering whether access to police personnel records qualifies as exculpatory or impeachment evidence under Brady.

What Is 'Exculpatory' Evidence? - FindLaw

It may sound like useless legalese, but it could mean the difference between a guilty verdict and an acquittal. Learn more on FindLaw Blotter.

www.findlaw.com

​

 

[Boxer]

The way they win this Case is by keeping their client off of death row. If BK gets a death sentence it wouldn't look good because a death penalty attorney's main job - with overwhelming evidence - is to plea bargain to get the DP dropped. The last thing they want for their client and for their careers is to have their client end up sentenced under the DP.

All the defense has left at this point is to get evidence thrown out.....You see it in the Motions filed.....

DNA.
LE witness interviews and investigative techniques (training records)
The evidence that linked them to BK.
The evidence that linked them to BK's car.

Or get the entire GJ indictment dismissed which tanks the Case completely and the prosecution has to start all over again.

They are turning over every stone to find exculpatory evidence.

Legal Limits​

Naturally then, the arguments come down to what, exactly constitutes exculpatory evidence. Recently, courts have been considering whether access to police personnel records qualifies as exculpatory or impeachment evidence under Brady.

When Can Defense Attorneys Get Police Personnel Records? - FindLaw

If a cop has been accused of, or found to have committed misconduct, that could be useful information for a defendant. But can they get that information, and if so, how? Learn more on FindLaw Blotter.

www.findlaw.com

Yes, getting evidence suppressed is the game plan.

 

[MyBelle]

The way they win this Case is by keeping their client off of death row. If BK gets a death sentence it wouldn't look good because a death penalty attorney's main job - with overwhelming evidence - is to plea bargain to get the DP dropped. The last thing they want for their client and for their careers is to have their client end up sentenced under the DP.

All the defense has left at this point is to get evidence thrown out.....You see it in the Motions filed.....

DNA.
LE witness interviews and investigative techniques (personnel training records)
The evidence that linked them to BK.
The evidence that linked them to BK's car.

Or get the entire GJ indictment dismissed which tanks the Case completely and the prosecution has to start all over again.

They are turning over every stone to find exculpatory evidence.

Legal Limits​

Naturally then, the arguments come down to what, exactly constitutes exculpatory evidence. Recently, courts have been considering whether access to police personnel records qualifies as exculpatory or impeachment evidence under Brady.

What Is 'Exculpatory' Evidence? - FindLaw

It may sound like useless legalese, but it could mean the difference between a guilty verdict and an acquittal. Learn more on FindLaw Blotter.

www.findlaw.com

​

All very true but I also haven't seen any indication the DA wants to offer a plea deal in this case.

JMO

 

[schooling]

Just throwing out a few musings on Amazon and Dateline

• Amazon will expedite your warrant if it's a matter of public safety. But for some reason it took almost 2 weeks, by comparison eBay got back the next day.
• I'm not familiar with Amazon's operations in this area but I'm going to assume that there was a massive amount of data to sort through. I'd imagine LE had multiple back and fourths with Amazon.
• This of course is not an indication of BKs name popping up in a sale.

If we are to believe Dateline then the below is very likely true....MOO


12/14

• LE gets BKs name back in a long list of other Kabar purchasers from Amazon. They start to systematically run them all through their system. They get a hit on BK when he got pulled over. This Kabar buyer lives in Pullman and drives a White Elantra!
• Problem....BK drives a 2015. Not a 2011-2013. LE calls the expert back in and asks if it's possible that the car in the video is a 2015.

12/15 - 12/2X

• Expert agrees
• BK is tied to the purchase of a murder weapon and drives the Elantra they are internally looking for.
• LE uses the combination of those two pieces of evidence as part of their applications for early warrants.
• geneology completed in record time because IMO they started with BKs name first and looked for any distant relative of the sample. Instead of starting from the top with the sample and doing their homework through generations to find BK.

So basically....I think this puts the Defenses filings into context and their strategy is...

The Defense is going to say that Prosecutors picked on misunderstood BK from the beginning. They saw the Amazon receipt for what was an innocent purchase of a knife, he's a collector. They then used that to hyperfocus on BK.

The Defense will argue prosecutors were so malicious that after they got the knife data. They called the expert back into to the office and forced him to change the year of the Elantra's to target BK. And obtain probably cause.

The Defense will argue that they then used BKs name to connect him to the sample's DNA. This is why they are asking for the name of relatives that were used to connect to BK. They want to present the Law Enforcement as people who willing to fudge processes and procedures with the tremendous amount of pressure (national media, university safety) on them to solve the case.

That's Tunnel Vision and it will be one major part of the case. The other will be attempting to destroy the timeline, moving the murders up closer to the afternoon and make it impossible for BK to have been there. This is likely the reason that they want to dig into the person who questioned the survivors and checking if their certified. The survivors recollection places the suspect at the scene at a specific time / within a specific time range.


This is all MOO. Which hinges on Dateline getting the receipt story right.

 

[Cool Cats]

Just throwing out a few musings on Amazon and Dateline

• Amazon will expedite your warrant if it's a matter of public safety. But for some reason it took almost 2 weeks, by comparison eBay got back the next day.
• I'm not familiar with Amazon's operations in this area but I'm going to assume that there was a massive amount of data to sort through. I'd imagine LE had multiple back and fourths with Amazon.
• This of course is not an indication of BKs name popping up in a sale.

If we are to believe Dateline then the below is very likely true....MOO


12/14

• LE gets BKs name back in a long list of other Kabar purchasers from Amazon. They start to systematically run them all through their system. They get a hit on BK when he got pulled over. This Kabar buyer lives in Pullman and drives a White Elantra!
• Problem....BK drives a 2015. Not a 2011-2013. LE calls the expert back in and asks if it's possible that the car in the video is a 2015.

12/15 - 12/2X

• Expert agrees
• BK is tied to the purchase of a murder weapon and drives the Elantra they are internally looking for.
• LE uses the combination of those two pieces of evidence as part of their applications for early warrants.
• geneology completed in record time because IMO they started with BKs name first and looked for any distant relative of the sample. Instead of starting from the top with the sample and doing their homework through generations to find BK.

So basically....I think this puts the Defenses filings into context and their strategy is...

The Defense is going to say that Prosecutors picked on misunderstood BK from the beginning. They saw the Amazon receipt for what was an innocent purchase of a knife, he's a collector. They then used that to hyperfocus on BK.

The Defense will argue prosecutors were so malicious that after they got the knife data. They called the expert back into to the office and forced him to change the year of the Elantra's to target BK. And obtain probably cause.

The Defense will argue that they then used BKs name to connect him to the sample's DNA. This is why they are asking for the name of relatives that were used to connect to BK. They want to present the Law Enforcement as people who willing to fudge processes and procedures with the tremendous amount of pressure (national media, university safety) on them to solve the case.

That's Tunnel Vision and it will be one major part of the case. The other will be attempting to destroy the timeline, moving the murders up closer to the afternoon and make it impossible for BK to have been there. This is likely the reason that they want to dig into the person who questioned the survivors and checking if their certified. The survivors recollection places the suspect at the scene at a specific time / within a specific time range.


This is all MOO. Which hinges on Dateline getting the receipt story right.

Who is Dateline's source?

 

[Nova]

I don't agree with the judge's decision. I think it is a fishing expedition but so be it. I do think in death penalty cases judges bend over backwards for a defendant. We all know if the defendant is found guilty there will be appeals so judges go the extra mile for the defendant IMO

True. But death-qualified juries tend to be pro-prosecution, so perhaps it all balances out.

 

[I'm Nobody]

Happy Xana Fun Day
Excuse me for interrupting, Today is XANAPALOOZA Day Wednesday July 5th 2023 Xana's Birthday

Xana loved her dog named Shoeshine
enjoyed EDM music, electronic dance music
liked going to concerts, dancing
worked at the Mad Greek as a server with Maddie Mogen
loved spending time w her friends and going on family trips w her sister & father.
"Xana was so positive, funny and was loved by everyone who met her. She was so lighthearted, and always lifted up a room. She made me such a proud big sister, and I wish I could have had more time with her. She had so much life left to live." Jazzmin Kernodle said to KING 5

Kernodle family photo
​

Xana graciously handled a noise complaint when told to turn down the music by the cop, Xana told LE she had a couple friends over that night. I'm guessing Ethan was one of her guests and picked the Country, not EDM, song playing on the stereo too loudly. "I Don't Dance" was the song playing too loudly heard at the beginning of the cop cam on Friday, 9/2/22, of Labor Day weekend. Xana Noise Complaint Cop Camera 9/2/22 here.

Heard on cop cam: Lee Brice - I Don't Dance
"Spinnin' you 'round and 'round in circles
It ain't my style, but I don't care
I'd do anything with you anywhere "

Turn it up for Xana.

Happy Birthday Beautiful Xana
JMO

FYI for anyone else who didn't know what EDM is, an oldie tied/listed in top 2022 EDM, electronic dance music, music awards was "Cold Heart (Pnau remix)" Elton John and Dua Lipa Winner EDM 2022.
While I'm not usually a fan of remixes, it's ELTON FREAKIN JOHN
I like thinking of Xana and Ethan dancing to Elton John. Elton's EDM winner Cold Hearts here.

 

[Nova]

Yes, getting evidence suppressed is the game plan.

In fairness, isn't that always the defense game plan? I think it comes with the job.

 

[Nova]

The way they win this Case is by keeping their client off of death row. If BK gets a death sentence it wouldn't look good because a death penalty attorney's main job - with overwhelming evidence - is to plea bargain to get the DP dropped. The last thing they want for their client and for their careers is to have their client end up sentenced under the DP.

...Or get the entire GJ indictment dismissed which tanks the Case completely and the prosecution has to start all over again....

(Emphasis added.) I don't want to put words in your mouth, Cats, but some other posters seem unduly alarmed that AT is going to get the GJ indictment quashed.

1. Unlikely. AT's trying to make new law (which is almost always difficult, per my personal lawyer who is also a public defender) and nobody outside of a movie or TV melodrama wants to let a quadruple murderer walk free. (Probably not even AT, but I am speculating on the motives of PDs.)

2. Even if the current indictment is quashed--except in a case of gross prosecutorial misconduct, which not even AT is claiming--then the DA will just have to hold the Preliminary Hearing, as originally scheduled.

The end result might be a delay of a few months, but I seriously doubt Judge Judge is going to suddenly grant bail and let BK walk around free in Moscow!

 

[Cool Cats]

All very true but I also haven't seen any indication the DA wants to offer a plea deal in this case.

JMO

Not something the public sees. The defense and prosecution communicate behind the scenes.

Yes it is up to the prosecution, they certainly do not have to negotiate any plea deal with BK. They could say:

"We’re seeking this no matter what, no offers, no deals, and we’ll let a jury figure this out."

If BK goes to trial it will be because the defense has exculpatory evidence and/or got evidence dismissed or the defense tried to negotiate a plea and the prosecution turned them down.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

(Emphasis added.) I don't want to put words in your mouth, Cats, but some other posters seem unduly alarmed that AT is going to get the GJ indictment quashed.

1. Unlikely. AT's trying to make new law (which is almost always difficult, per my personal lawyer who is also a public defender) and nobody outside of a movie or TV melodrama wants to let a quadruple murderer walk free. (Probably not even AT, but I am speculating on the motives of PDs.)

2. Even if the current indictment is quashed--except in a case of gross prosecutorial misconduct, which not even AT is claiming--then the DA will just have to hold the Preliminary Hearing, as originally scheduled.

The end result might be a delay of a few months, but I seriously doubt Judge Judge is going to suddenly grant bail and let BK walk around free in Moscow!

I agree.

No way will the judge dismiss the GJ indictment.

AT is claiming that the jury was biased due to publicity but that is covered when they go through jury selection. It - being impartial - is in the jury questionnaires and in court record when the judge asks jurors if they can be impartial.

2 Cents

 

[kittythehare]

Just throwing out a few musings on Amazon and Dateline

• Amazon will expedite your warrant if it's a matter of public safety. But for some reason it took almost 2 weeks, by comparison eBay got back the next day.
• I'm not familiar with Amazon's operations in this area but I'm going to assume that there was a massive amount of data to sort through. I'd imagine LE had multiple back and fourths with Amazon.
• This of course is not an indication of BKs name popping up in a sale.

If we are to believe Dateline then the below is very likely true....MOO


12/14

• LE gets BKs name back in a long list of other Kabar purchasers from Amazon. They start to systematically run them all through their system. They get a hit on BK when he got pulled over. This Kabar buyer lives in Pullman and drives a White Elantra!
• Problem....BK drives a 2015. Not a 2011-2013. LE calls the expert back in and asks if it's possible that the car in the video is a 2015.

12/15 - 12/2X

• Expert agrees
• BK is tied to the purchase of a murder weapon and drives the Elantra they are internally looking for.
• LE uses the combination of those two pieces of evidence as part of their applications for early warrants.
• geneology completed in record time because IMO they started with BKs name first and looked for any distant relative of the sample. Instead of starting from the top with the sample and doing their homework through generations to find BK.

So basically....I think this puts the Defenses filings into context and their strategy is...

The Defense is going to say that Prosecutors picked on misunderstood BK from the beginning. They saw the Amazon receipt for what was an innocent purchase of a knife, he's a collector. They then used that to hyperfocus on BK.

The Defense will argue prosecutors were so malicious that after they got the knife data. They called the expert back into to the office and forced him to change the year of the Elantra's to target BK. And obtain probably cause.

The Defense will argue that they then used BKs name to connect him to the sample's DNA. This is why they are asking for the name of relatives that were used to connect to BK. They want to present the Law Enforcement as people who willing to fudge processes and procedures with the tremendous amount of pressure (national media, university safety) on them to solve the case.

That's Tunnel Vision and it will be one major part of the case. The other will be attempting to destroy the timeline, moving the murders up closer to the afternoon and make it impossible for BK to have been there. This is likely the reason that they want to dig into the person who questioned the survivors and checking if their certified. The survivors recollection places the suspect at the scene at a specific time / within a specific time range.


This is all MOO. Which hinges on Dateline getting the receipt story right.

NOT RINGING TRUE FOR ME.
sorry, capslock a typo, not a statement!
I think he may have purchased knife under a false name if he bought it for the sole purpose of killing people.
In that case they would have been searching for an address .

He could have paid with a pre-pay debit card so possibly a postbox address was all he required.
IF.

I think the single source DNA on the button brought them to the databases after Codis produced no fruits.

This may possibly be the get out of jail free card /exonerating evidence they semi claim they possess.

He can claim he looked at the knife in a second hand shop or a new shop and opened and closed the button in the process but that he never owned or purchased it.
That kills the single source sample of DNA and it kills the knife ownership.

I hope I'm wrong about this evil speculation.

 

[katydid23]

Agreed. I know it’s been thrown around that MM and XK were the targets or just MM bc of a Mad Greek connection. However. Something had to make him tick for picking that particular night. That Saturday night would’ve been the less likely choice in my opinion. If he wanted to kill why not choose the middle of a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday night where you know there aren’t usually outsiders visiting at odd hours or staying over for the weekend. Did he choose this night bc he thought the occupants of the house were most likely intoxicated? There is something there that we don’t know about yet. I’m hoping we find out

I think KG was only going to be there during the weekend. Maybe that was the urgency?

 

[Cool Cats]

NOT RINGING TRUE FOR ME.
sorry, capslock a typo, not a statement!
I think he may have purchased knife under a false name if he bought it for the sole purpose of killing people.
In that case they would have been searching for an address .

He could have paid with a pre-pay debit card so possibly a postbox address was all he required.
IF.

I think the single source DNA on the button brought them to the databases after Codis produced no fruits.

This may possibly be the get out of jail free card /exonerating evidence they semi claim they possess.

He can claim he looked at the knife in a second hand shop or a new shop and opened and closed the button in the process but that he never owned or purchased it.
That kills the single source sample of DNA and it kills the knife ownership.

I hope I'm wrong about this evil speculation.

Agree about Dateline but .....

I don't believe AT would tell the jury that
"Yes the prosecution has a solid DNA match to Mr Kohberger and we don't dispute that since he did handle the sheath and the knife but decided not to purchase them."

The prosecution is doing everything they can to distance BK from the DNA - not confirm it is his DNA.

“There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims.”

“Presumably, the Defense is expected to accept at face value that the sheath had touch DNA just waiting for testing by all the FBI’s myriad resources,” the filing scoffs.

The defense’s argument also points out several perceived gaps in the prosecution’s case, including the “total lack of DNA evidence from the victims” in the suspect’s apartment and car, as well as the genetic material of three additional unknown males that was found at the murder scene.
None of this DNA matches that of Bryan Kohberger.

“The state apparently only wants to prevent Mr. Kohberger from seeing how the investigative genetic genealogy profile was created and how many other people the FBI chose to ignore during their investigation.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/25/us/bryan-kohberger-idaho-killings-dna-filing/index.html

• Bryan Kohberger Says DNA From 3 Men, Mystery Glove at Murder Scene
• Bryan Kohberger has ‘no connection’ to University of Idaho murder victims, defense claims