4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

[Chloegirl]

Great post!
Whenever I think of the Grub Truck livestream, I feel a sense of panic, seeing these beautiful souls, knowing their lives would be snuffed out in a very short time.
Pardon my ignorance, but are livestreams such as this common? (I must have lead a sheltered life, although I do live in a different country where sometimes, things are done a little differently.

I hope it's not that common but I assume it is. I had no idea it was occurring in my hometown, right around the bend. Absurd. I dislike technology for this but I'm also not a fan of Ring (etc.) so I would be unpopular with that crowd of converts. JMOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

I think BKs technical abilities are being vastly over estimated. MOO of course

100%. I usually stay out of it, but I salute that you take it on, methodically, when it gets brought up.

 

[jjleroche]

Right, but if we’re talking about live viewing then it has to have connectivity. Like I said, I’m sure there’s something you can buy with a built in cellular connection, but then you still have to pay for (maybe traceably) the cellular connection.

I’m on a phone right now and I should have quoted more of your text, but I feel like most non-criminals are pretty oblivious to doorbell cams etc at this point.

(I have a feeling we’re mostly agreeing, but it’s been a long day and I spent a lot of it trying to track down a sketchy packet loss problem. Be gentle.)

Good point ArianeEmory. Today in my feed - "Latest Tech Gadgets 2023" (with a link, of course to "Buy Now". Yes, any cellular connection for which one has paid - traceability - becomes a factor.

(Hope the packet loss gets sorted smoothly .)

 

[jjleroche]

I hope it's not that common but I assume it is. I had no idea it was occurring in my hometown, right around the bend. Absurd. I dislike technology for this but I'm also not a fan of Ring (etc.) so I would be unpopular with that crowd of converts. JMOO

I'm wondering if LE have been able to ascertain when/how often BK has been viewing the Grub
Truck livestream. I'm guessing that his devices could show this. Any thoughts from WS tech people? TIA

 

[twall]

Oh, I also meant to type this out earlier today but I got sidetracked with the LISK arrest.

I dislike YouTube. I’d rather read text than listen to someone verbally explain something to me. I loathe the big money industry that disinformation has become, along with the monetization of schlocky murder channels and tragedies like the Titan disaster.

All this said, I finally clicked on that Gray Hughes video once it had been vetted, and while you’re not seeing much on the camera and I personally never would have been able to make anything of it, once he lines it up with the PCA and the footage of what it’s like to drive around behind that one building … yeah, the multiple loops + lurking behind the building seem way too plausible, and terrifying.

I was under the impression one could not drive a vehicle in a loop from where Queen Rd. ends to the parking area behind the big apartment buildings due to constricted space so he turned around in the cul de sac. Overhead maps have tree coverage and there is no street walking on the maps in that area so I am unsure. I have looked at videos of reporters/youtubers in the area and apartment rental ads and have not found anything to prove or disprove my belief. Also, there is a fence in front of 1330 Linda Lane (the building the video is recorded at) but I cannot tell where it ends and that area is elevated above the cul de sac where Queen Rd. ends so can a vehicle drive through there? Please someone that is local go there and post your findings!

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Does anyone here care to speculate whether they think the killer went to the trouble of installing their own wildlife/deer/night cam?

Behind their house up in the trees and/or across the street that abutted the Greek Row in front of their house?

That the killer used to view their house and them and their activities remotely on their computer and/or phone or on Alexa or whatever remote viewing device ahead of time?

That they later removed, that morning, whenever (right away after the murders or later that morning before LE showed up around noon)?

So they wouldn't need to come in person until / once the timing was set in stone for early morning Sunday November 13th entry and killings?

Or do you think I'm giving them too much credit and/or they didn't need something like that personally dedicated remote viewing device ahead of time?

TIA. MOO as usual

tbf, I did wonder about when I was perseveration about the DD delivery timing, but once the PCA came out with such a tight timeline, it kind of fell off my list. Plus, as others have mentioned, the ability to avoid the cam & connectivity back to an individual is dicey, MOO.

OTOH, I still wonder if LE got video from trail cams along rural roads. I have friends who live outside town who have them &/or other surveillance cameras on roads adjacent to their property. MOO.

 

[schooling]

The police in the Long Island serial killer case just presented evidence that goes to show how hard it is to hide digital evidence using outdated methods.

By the looks of things the suspect used cash to purchase prepaid phones that he quickly disposed of following the murders. And LE was still able to get video surveillance evidence of not only his prepaid phone purchases but also triangulate (ding ding) the usage of the phones. Connecting it back to his home and where the bodies were dumped…. going back over a decade.

As far as we know LE is looking for two “burner” prepaid phones in the Moscow case. What are the chances those phones weren’t used for nefarious reasons. And what are the chances that LE won’t be able to connect it to its buyer?

 

[Boxer]

I’m with you here.

The fact that he turned off (or set to airplane) the phone during the murder window tells me he has some awareness of the technological pitfalls of being a criminal. I think he wanted to do it all as low-tech as possible.

I don’t think any fancy tech surveillance was necessary, between social media and the fact that this house was apparently a beloved college rental home with a long waiting list (per ABC).

Obviously he had to take the risk that the disappearance of his phone from the networks would be suspicious in and of itself, and maybe if he had just a few more IQ points he would have left the phone at home, but thankfully he didn’t.

MOO he thought Pullmam would be outside the geofence.

Geofence warrants help police find suspects using Google. A ruling could curb their use.

A federal judge's ruling that geofence warrants violate the Fourth Amendment could slow the use of surveillance tools based on Google location data.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Great post!
Whenever I think of the Grub Truck livestream, I feel a sense of panic, seeing these beautiful souls, knowing their lives would be snuffed out in a very short time.
Pardon my ignorance, but are livestreams such as this common? (I must have lead a sheltered life, although I do live in a different country where sometimes, things are done a little differently.

Good on you asking that question, @jjleroche!

Me too, there is a certain sense of panic, and I also "don't want to go there"...

But. although a lot of the aspects on "this case" are too "eek" for me and maybe "us", I've hung in here this long, from the beginning, for reasons like could there possibly be justice for the 4 victims and everyone else 'left standing", LE and The Prosecution Have Got This, and I think yeah, they do!!!!! But... yeah, IMO....

You're not ignorant, and neither am I, IMO!

We're just here, looking in and listening, and hoping... cheering you and all on!

Justice for them, the victims, is always in the forefront.

MOO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I was under the impression one could not drive a vehicle in a loop from where Queen Rd. ends to the parking area behind the big apartment buildings due to constricted space so he turned around in the cul de sac. Overhead maps have tree coverage and there is no street walking on the maps in that area so I am unsure. I have looked at videos of reporters/youtubers in the area and apartment rental ads and have not found anything to prove or disprove my belief. Also, there is a fence in front of 1330 Linda Lane (the building the video is recorded at) but I cannot tell where it ends and that area is elevated above the cul de sac where Queen Rd. ends so can a vehicle drive through there? Please someone that is local go there and post your findings!

I’ve not yet seen the podcast everyone is talking about, but I think I might understand your confusion.

If possible, can you try using a different mapping app? I’m local & using Google Maps isn’t helpful, MOO. The native map on my iPhone, however, does show the Queen Road Apartments parking lot loop. I would screw up trying to explain it & don’t know how to use a screen cap pic with required link — sorry!

It’s also helpful, MOO, to know that everything in that area is on an incline. For our purposes, the King Rd house is at the bottom, the closest end of the parking lot loop is elevated about 2 stories higher (ie, around the level of the top floor of the King Rd house), and Linda Ln is even higher.

Also, unless things have changed, nothing on Linda Ln or its parking spurs (or whatever they are called) connects to the Queen Road Apartments parking loop. There’s an elevation difference and also different property owners.

HTH & MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

The police in the Long Island serial killer case just presented evidence that goes to show how hard it is to hide digital evidence using outdated methods.

By the looks of things the suspect used cash to purchase prepaid phones that he quickly disposed of following the murders. And LE was still able to get video surveillance evidence of not only his prepaid phone purchases but also triangulate (ding ding) the usage of the phones. Connecting it back to his home and where the bodies were dumped…. going back over a decade.

As far as we know LE is looking for two “burner” prepaid phones in the Moscow case. What are the chances those phones weren’t used for nefarious reasons. And what are the chances that LE won’t be able to connect it to its buyer?

Well, @schooling, thanks for doing some schooling of me, and possibly others here.

I never knew LE was looking for burner phones in this case, no less more than one.

But, I'm for sure never ever gonna think anything is beyond the realm of possibility on this case.

I've certainly been open to all possibilities.

Just sayin', MOO

 

[maconrich]

Well, @schooling, thanks for doing some schooling of me, and possibly others here.

I never knew LE was looking for burner phones in this case, no less more than one.

But, I'm for sure never ever gonna think anything is beyond the realm of possibility on this case.

I've certainly been open to all possibilities.

Just sayin', MOO

Thanks for this. First I've heard of LE looking for burner phones too - glad I'm not alone!

 

[twall]

I’ve not yet seen the podcast everyone is talking about, but I think I might understand your confusion.

If possible, can you try using a different mapping app? I’m local & using Google Maps isn’t helpful, MOO. The native map on my iPhone, however, does show the Queen Road Apartments parking lot loop. I would screw up trying to explain it & don’t know how to use a screen cap pic with required link — sorry!

It’s also helpful, MOO, to know that everything in that area is on an incline. For our purposes, the King Rd house is at the bottom, the closest end of the parking lot loop is elevated about 2 stories higher (ie, around the level of the top floor of the King Rd house), and Linda Ln is even higher.

Also, unless things have changed, nothing on Linda Ln or its parking spurs (or whatever they are called) connects to the Queen Road Apartments parking loop. There’s an elevation difference and also different property owners.

HTH & MOO

Yes, that does help, thank you!
I do not have access to any Apple devices atm but I did access Apple maps from the DuckDuckGo search engine on my Windows laptop and see the loop on the birdseye view there but the satellite view is still covered by tree foilage. It is not a question in my mind anymore and I will sleep better tonight with that cleared up and won't have to take an Ambien to calm my overactive brain! HA! Thanks again!

 

[schooling]

Well, @schooling, thanks for doing some schooling of me, and possibly others here.

I never knew LE was looking for burner phones in this case, no less more than one.

But, I'm for sure never ever gonna think anything is beyond the realm of possibility on this case.

I've certainly been open to all possibilities.

Just sayin', MOO

My interpretation of this warrant is they are looking for two specific burner phones.

The dates match up to when Kohlberger would have been preparing to travel to or had already been in Moscow.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/053123%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20ATT.pdf

It’s clear they have two numbers that are related to activities that they are highly interested in. Numbers taken from god knows where (social media accounts? Contact with victims? ) And the numbers have no clear subscribers attached to them. So they are asking for purchasing records too.

Bullet point number two in the warrant specifically refers to prepaid card refill purchases.

Youre welcome to interpret it anyway you’d like though.

Just sayin’ MOO

 

[kittythehare]

I'm wondering if LE have been able to ascertain when/how often BK has been viewing the Grub
Truck livestream. I'm guessing that his devices could show this. Any thoughts from WS tech people? TIA

I think this is exactly where his technical 'genius' comes into play.
I think it's highly unlikely he will have left tracks on any device that is available.

 

[schooling]

I think this is exactly where his technical 'genius' comes into play.
I think it's highly unlikely he will have left tracks on any device that is available.

There are no twitch (grub trucks streaming platform of choice) warrants yet. Doesn’t mean we won’t see one. But considering it was one of the first publicly known and shared pieces of evidence…there’s probably no warrant because LE doesn’t think there’s anything there.

So if we pretend that Twitch did contain viewer information pertinent to the case then BKs devices are only one half of the equation. As whatever device he is using would need to communicate with Twitch’s computers (servers). and there are only a few ways to obscure the metadata left behind by those interactions and none of them are fully secure. Twitch likely has the IP address of everyone who’s watched the grub truck stream around the time the murders were committed. Anonymous or not. They track all of this stuff because of the constant “swatting” and spam their streamers face.

and Twitch is on the “clearnet”. Not the “dark web”. Not Tor. so staying anonymous is pretty much impossible with todays software/hardware/behaviorial fingerprinting tools.

So did BK use a coffee shop? A neighbors internet? Because he had to use something that gave off an IP address….

Contrary to popular belief VPNs do little to nothing to protect you and your identity. Just look at how Facebook was able to block all VPN users in the UK from using threads. So even though they are using an IP from another country…Facebook knows that it’s a VPN and knows where the user originates from. Countless crimes have been committed under the false sense of security that a VPN provides only for the person to be caught.

I think this is the last time I combat the BK is a technical genius thing. Because no one ever shares how he actually did it. It’s just that he did…somehow…using some unknown secretive method only privvy to him apparently. And I don’t think this perception is going to change no matter how much I try to share and demystify technology and “hacking”.

 

[kittythehare]

There are no twitch (grub trucks streaming platform of choice) warrants yet. Doesn’t mean we won’t see one. But considering it was one of the first publicly known and shared pieces of evidence…there’s probably no warrant because LE doesn’t think there’s anything there.

So if we pretend that Twitch did contain viewer information pertinent to the case then BKs devices are only one half of the equation. As whatever device he is using would need to communicate with Twitch’s computers (servers). and there are only a few ways to obscure the metadata left behind by those interactions and none of them are fully secure. Twitch likely has the IP address of everyone who’s watched the grub truck stream around the time the murders were committed. Anonymous or not. They track all of this stuff because of the constant “swatting” and spam their streamers face.

and Twitch is on the “clearnet”. Not the “dark web”. Not Tor. so staying anonymous is pretty much impossible with todays software/hardware/behaviorial fingerprinting tools.

So did BK use a coffee shop? A neighbors internet? Because he had to use something that gave off an IP address….

Contrary to popular belief VPNs do little to nothing to protect you and your identity. Just look at how Facebook was able to block all VPN users in the UK from using threads. So even though they are using an IP from another country…Facebook knows that it’s a VPN and knows where the user originates from. Countless crimes have been committed under the false sense of security that a VPN provides only for the person to be caught.

I think this is the last time I combat the BK is a technical genius thing. Because no one ever shares how he actually did it. It’s just that he did…somehow…using some unknown secretive method only privvy to him apparently. And I don’t think this perception is going to change no matter how much I try to share and demystify technology and “hacking”.

I was being sarcastic.
I was referring to all his devices not the imaginary spy camera on full charge..
A person who is not technically sophisticated will leave a trail, search histories and the like and use their own phones, pc's logged to their own addresses.
I very much doubt he left such a trail on any devices because he would have known how to clean it .
Burner phones and the like, now gone like the murder weapon.

 

[jepop]

Does anyone here care to speculate whether they think the killer went to the trouble of installing their own wildlife/deer/night cam?

Behind their house up in the trees and/or across the street that abutted the Greek Row in front of their house?

That the killer used to view their house and them and their activities remotely on their computer and/or phone or on Alexa or whatever remote viewing device ahead of time?

That they later removed, that morning, whenever (right away after the murders or later that morning before LE showed up around noon)?

So they wouldn't need to come in person until / once the timing was set in stone for early morning Sunday November 13th entry and killings?

Or do you think I'm giving them too much credit and/or they didn't need something like that personally dedicated remote viewing device ahead of time?

TIA. MOO as usual

It's possible I suppose, but he would have had to have removed device/s either on the night or next morning because they definately would have been found in the first day/s of the investigation and not sure on details but LE would have been able to follow the digital/number trail back to BK I suspect - and the arrest would have ocurred sooner IMO.

I don't recall any spy/camera/tracking devices in the ROIs of the search warrants - but I guess that proves nothing as defendant would have ditched such if they did in fact exist. One thing - my best uneducated guess is that such devices would have 'touched' the household wifi or however that works - so if it did happen- there would have been records of the phone number of the devices that may have been recoverable. Once the number is known - then can be traced back in some way to the observer at the other end? Moo

In a nutshell - if BK did this it will be traced back and BK is toast. Moo

EBM spelling

 

[jepop]

Another thing the Gray Hughes video does is put the DoorDash conspiracies to bed IMO.

BKs last loop was to give the DoorDash guy time to leave.

Agree - that is the new info that comes out of the footage - the timing from the Linda Lane camera on the last pass - makes perfect sense that killer left after pass three (just before 4am from memory) to give time for DD to vacate the premises. Also the footage does show the timing of each pass between approx 3.30am and 4.04/05 am which is info we did not have before from the PCA. Moo

 

[jepop]

Ya I don’t think I’m saying anything different from what you are. I could buy a 3g cellular capable camera and have it running off a prepaid data plan in 2 minutes.

Making sure the camera and prepaid card can’t be tied to me, and my connections can’t be tied back to the devices I use to live view it and that the camera won’t be discoverable is the much much much harder part with today’s law enforcement methods.

I’m not sure why he would need a camera to begin with. As law enforcement and the press showed us most all activity inside of the house was in full view of the windows.

With real estate pictures, virtual tours, and publicly available information he knew exactly what he was looking at on the nights he stalked the house. He likely knew which were bedroom windows and which weren’t. And watched the lights go on and off. It probably wouldn’t have taken him long to take a glance inside of a window and start to figure out who stayed where.

I think BKs technical abilities are being vastly over estimated. MOO of course

I think that's my point and you are explaining the technical aspect that I can't due to ignorance. If defendant was using an in real time live "spy cam" then it would have been traced back to him right? Even if he removed the device on the night, say, LE would have been able to recover the number attached to the camera and trace it back? Moo