4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Freaking COOL Cats.
Cool Cats said:
www.yahoo.com

Morgan Wallen and mom meet with Idaho murder victims family in ‘full circle mama moment’ backstage

Morgan Wallen invited the Chapin family for a special performance after their son, Ethan, was one of the University of Idaho students who were tragically murdered.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
Click to expand...
Thank you for this article.
Morgan Wallen <-standing ovation!!!
for "graciously" flying the Chapins to the concert, meeting with them before the concert, introducing them to his own mom, singing the song Ethan gave Stacy for Mother's Day, but
mostly for putting a badly needed smile on their faces. I'll bet those smiles have been few and far between for a while.
"And he made an incredible donation to Ethan’s Smile," Ethan's mom, Stacy, said in the article Cats posted.

Morgan Wallen just got another fan--me. MOO

Morgan Wallen - Thought You Should Know HERE in case you'd like to hear it again. I did.
 
Balthazar said:
It’s not funny to me. These were found in relation to the victims. Why would Ethans brother be in MM‘s bedroom? Even before the crime that is not logical at all. If you mean Ethan’s BF who discovered EC and XK’s murder, again why was he in MM’s bedroom? That doesn’t make sense at all. Also LE would have taken the fingerprints and DNA of everyone known who was in that house so they were ruled out.
Click to expand...
The unattributed male DNA was in MMs bedroom? Where was that?
 
Chloegirl said:
Were these for communicating with let's just say respondents to his online survey? Is this murder talk? I never really thought of that before just now, and hope to be wrong. JMOO

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case>
Click to expand...
Anything is possible. <modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case> I believe his self-esteem and body issues were so bad he wouldn't want to be naked/semi-naked with anybody, not even at the gym. Unless he paid sex workers, he was probably a virgin. If using burner phones he'd use them for stalking or talking to other creeps about murder. JMO

The other master’s student said Kohberger “talked down to LGBTQ+ individuals, those who are in a marginalized community, those who were disabled, and women.” Kohberger also declared himself someone who “believed in ‘traditional marriage,’“ his classmate said. In another incident, Kohberger’s classmate said, a colleague hung a pride ally flag on the door of their office, and Kohberger became noticeably upset.


 
Last edited by a moderator:
DNA of other friends/acquaintances in various rooms: it’s been a long time since I was that age, but I’ve lived in shared houses with as many as four other people, some couples, some not. We were all in and out of each other’s rooms, and so were guests, or party attendees.

That said, I won’t pretend to know what the situation was in the house or how close everyone was—if I knew then what I know now (about life, I mean, not this case), I probably would have spent most of my time behind my own personal deadbolted door.
 
Balthazar said:
Two users. Intimate facts. Interesting.
Evidence of compartmentalization? Perhaps sexually compartmentalized so his parents didn’t know what he was doing and with whom? Same as OCD type trash sorting in the wee hours to hide what he was doing from family members. Grown man living with parents might seek to have some privacy somehow. All JMO.
Click to expand...
The actual wording of the reason for sealing is this (I shorten it to just intimate facts)

(A) That the documents or materials contain highly intimate facts or statements, the publication of which would be highly objectionable to a reasonable person

And if you look at the information requested: In addition to location, they request a lot of information. Just some examples in the latest Unknown Users warrant

1689477175582.png
1689477254928.png

1689477320142.png

A reasonable person would object to having this type of information being made public.
IMO it is also important to remember that just because it is sealed with a fair trial reason, it does not automatically mean it is directly linked to BK, it only means that it is expected to be used at trial.

JMO
 
Maat99 said:
Because they were friends and presumably Ethan’s brother was a frequent visitor? This isn’t the 50‘s where gentleman callers weren’t allowed into a lady’s bedroom. Girls have guy friends and they often converse or hang out in bedrooms, or borrow pencils, or a thousand other things that are part of everyday life.
Click to expand...
I doubt Maddie would have done that because she had a boyfriend of almost 2 years. However, it is clear the DNA is not from someone these women knew because LE got DNA from everyone they seemed to have known at UofI and probably others, either voluntarily or surreptitiously (such as by picking up a cigarette butt) to rule them out. Also if you watch the video of their parties, there are only women on the 3rd floor - no men.
 
schooling said:
It’s the defense playing with words again to control the narrative and bypass the gag order. I can’t remember the qualifier they used. But whatever it was could have been inside of the room or on the first level. But some are choosing to interpret it as the former.
Click to expand...
I agree as to the dramatics and showmanship that are apparent in the D's Objection to Protective Order, Moo. Imo this adds to the task of extrapolating substance.

Here is the quote re the unknown dna that pertains to location:

"By December l7, 2022, lab analysts were aware of two additional males’ DNA within the house where the deceased were located, and another unknown male DNA on a glove found outside the residence on November 20, 2022."

So I guess some say the above reads as the rooms where the deceased were located? However, I think that is incorrect. How subtle is Mr Logsdon! Really?. All that sentence says is that the unknown dna was located inside the house - that is, the house where the deceased were located. It is clumsily constructed Imo, or possibly just legal habit - ie let's be clear we are talking about 1122 not some other house. But that's about it.Moo. If the unknown samples were in, Idk, 'bombshell' locations, given the style of this objection my feeling is that would have been alluded to - Moo.

 
Chloegirl said:
Were these for communicating with let's just say respondents to his online survey? Is this murder talk? I never really thought of that before just now, and hope to be wrong. JMOO

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case>
Click to expand...
Good point, there is a warrant issued for BK's Reddit account prior to the March 30th AT&T warrant. At one point I had the service and return dates straight but all that's now on a brain vacation. I do remember that one of my thoughts was that as opposed to the phone company warrants issued just after the crime, the AT&T warrant of March 30th was for a scope that commenced with BK's account opening date (June 23rd) and ended in early August. It could have been informed by the BK Reddit return. I'm also mindful that the forensic analysis of BK's phone would likely have been complete by this time and that might have lead to new warrants related to digital and phone data. Moo

BK Reddit Warrant below - if any are interested in squizzing.
 
schooling said:
If the device was found, it would obviously be a lot more likely that LE could connect it back to it’s owner.

There’s a scenario where he could have used a device, it went undiscovered up to the crime and he disposes of it.

In that case LE could discover the device via forensic analysis of his phone. They’ll be looking for any IPs or domain names that he regularly connected to. Or any unusual apps that he may have used. They’ll also be looking at purchases he made. Including the device itself and any prepaid cellular data SIM cards.

Also, you just made me realize that the warrant I cited earlier that looks a lot like 2 prepaid phones don’t have to be prepaid phones. Data only devices also get phone numbers assigned to them. So while I’m not discounting a live surveillance device I’m still a little skeptical.

MOO of course. And as my wife would tell people here…..I’m wrong all of the time.
Click to expand...
Thank you for that information. Very useful to know when speculating on this case.
 
Nila Aella said:
The actual wording of the reason for sealing is this (I shorten it to just intimate facts)

(A) That the documents or materials contain highly intimate facts or statements, the publication of which would be highly objectionable to a reasonable person

And if you look at the information requested: In addition to location, they request a lot of information. Just some examples in the latest Unknown Users warrant

View attachment 435003
View attachment 435004

View attachment 435005

A reasonable person would object to having this type of information being made public.
IMO it is also important to remember that just because it is sealed with a fair trial reason, it does not automatically mean it is directly linked to BK, it only means that it is expected to be used at trial.

JMO
Click to expand...
JMO but there is a big difference between Protected Information and Highly Intimate facts or statements.
Protected information is:
SSN
DL#
Medical information
Credit card #'s
AND pretty much everything listed in 1-9.

Sexual photos are called "Intimate Images" in law. An Intimate relationship is a dating relationship or sexual relationship between two people who are not married to each other. The word "intimate" is why I believe these were some kind of sexual messages/images. If it was protected information, the attorney would have written protected information.

All IMOO.
 
Balthazar said:
It’s not funny to me. These were found in relation to the victims. Why would Ethans brother be in MM‘s bedroom? Even before the crime that is not logical at all. If you mean Ethan’s BF who discovered EC and XK’s murder, again why was he in MM’s bedroom? That doesn’t make sense at all. Also LE would have taken the fingerprints and DNA of everyone known who was in that house so they were ruled out.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where the idea of the unknown dna being in MM's bedroom comes from? The OP's post only speculates that perhaps the dna is actually known and belongs to Ethan's brother or some such (unlikley Imo if the D is saying the samples are unknown). The first time I've seen a bedroom mentioned as the location for dna sample mentioned in the D's Doc as if it is a fact is in your post. Moo
 
Balthazar said:
JMO but there is a big difference between Protected Information and Highly Intimate facts or statements.
Protected information is:
SSN
DL#
Medical information
Credit card #'s
AND pretty much everything listed in 1-9.

Sexual photos are called "Intimate Images" in law. An Intimate relationship is a dating relationship or sexual relationship between two people who are not married to each other. The word "intimate" is why I believe these were some kind of sexual messages/images. If it was protected information, the attorney would have written protected information.

All IMOO.
Click to expand...
These are the judges choices for redacting/sealing records.

ICAR 32 (i)

(2) Before a court may enter an order redacting or sealing records, it must also make one or more of the following determinations in writing:

(A) That the documents or materials contain highly intimate facts or statements, the publication of which would be highly objectionable to a reasonable person, or

(B) That the documents or materials contain facts or statements that the court finds might be libelous, or

(C) That the documents or materials contain facts or statements, the dissemination or publication of which may compromise the financial security of, or could reasonably result in economic or financial loss or harm to a person having an interest in the documents or materials, or compromise the security of personnel, records or public property of or used by the judicial department, or

(D) That the documents or materials contain facts or statements that might threaten or endanger the life or safety of individuals, or

(E) That it is necessary to temporarily seal or redact the documents or materials to preserve the right to a fair trial, or

(F) That the documents contain personal data identifiers that should have been redacted pursuant to Idaho Rule of Electronic Filing and Service 15, Idaho Rule of Civil Procedure 2.6, or Idaho Rule of Family Law Procedure 218 in which case the court shall order that the documents be redacted in a manner consistent with the provisions of that rule.

I.C.A.R. 32. Records of The Judicial Department - Examination and Copying - Exemption From and Limitations on Disclosure. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov isc.idaho.gov

Out of 81 warrants listed only a few do not have (A) listed. Two I recall are WSU and MPD. I think there are one or two more besides those two.
MOO
 
Balthazar said:
I doubt Maddie would have done that because she had a boyfriend of almost 2 years
Click to expand...
What? That’s an odd thing to say. Ethan’s brother could go into her room to tell her they are going on a beer run and ask her if she wants anything.
He could ask if anyone has Advil and she could tell him there is some on her desk in her bedroom and to help himself. He could have a conversation with her boyfriend while her boyfriend is studying in her room..

These are just examples of everyday interactions that happen between friends who spend time at the same house. There are thousands of other innocent possibilities IMO. Why would this not be allowed because she has a boyfriend?
 
jepop said:
I agree as to the dramatics and showmanship that are apparent in the D's Objection to Protective Order, Moo. Imo this adds to the task of extrapolating substance.

Here is the quote re the unknown dna that pertains to location:

"By December l7, 2022, lab analysts were aware of two additional males’ DNA within the house where the deceased were located, and another unknown male DNA on a glove found outside the residence on November 20, 2022."

So I guess some say the above reads as the rooms where the deceased were located? However, I think that is incorrect. How subtle is Mr Logsdon! Really?. All that sentence says is that the unknown dna was located inside the house - that is, the house where the deceased were located. It is clumsily constructed Imo, or possibly just legal habit - ie let's be clear we are talking about 1122 not some other house. But that's about it.Moo. If the unknown samples were in, Idk, 'bombshell' locations, given the style of this objection my feeling is that would have been alluded to - Moo.

Click to expand...
I agree. As written, "within the house where the deceased were located" means only that the male DNA was found within the four walls of the house. If it was a real blockbuster, they would have been more specific as to location. I'm assuming they know exactly where it was found, due to discovery. Given how many people have been in that house, it's likely meaningless. "Outside the residence" could mean anything from on the doorstep to a drainage ditch by the road. MOOooo

ETA: MOOooo
 
jepop said:
I agree as to the dramatics and showmanship that are apparent in the D's Objection to Protective Order, Moo. Imo this adds to the task of extrapolating substance.

Here is the quote re the unknown dna that pertains to location:

"By December l7, 2022, lab analysts were aware of two additional males’ DNA within the house where the deceased were located, and another unknown male DNA on a glove found outside the residence on November 20, 2022."

So I guess some say the above reads as the rooms where the deceased were located? However, I think that is incorrect. How subtle is Mr Logsdon! Really?. All that sentence says is that the unknown dna was located inside the house - that is, the house where the deceased were located. It is clumsily constructed Imo, or possibly just legal habit - ie let's be clear we are talking about 1122 not some other house. But that's about it.Moo. If the unknown samples were in, Idk, 'bombshell' locations, given the style of this objection my feeling is that would have been alluded to - Moo.

Click to expand...
I knew this Defense motion was written by JL before even seeing his name. Talk about high drama and overstating. I think he's in the wrong profession, he'd do well in fictional crime writing IMO.

I do wonder if BK has any input into the actual preparation of these motions?

ALL MOO
 
TL4S said:
We've all heard the rumors that KG thought she had a stalker. I don't know for sure where that stems from, but I'm thinking SG maybe said it? And AT said there's nothing connecting BK to the victims (I know this could be word play).

I mean, thinking where the defense might try to go from here, if there was an account(s) communicating with KG (or any of the victims) via SM, that can't be traced back to a real person, or burner phone numbers that can't be traced back to the buyer, and the elantra plate can't be identified in any of the footage, and BK's phone can't be placed in the area on the night of the crime, and there is unidentified male DNA at the CS, then his defense team would definitely try to get the sheath DNA evidence suppressed, imo, because that is the only evidence that we know of that directly links him to being in the house that night. Of course, there could be a lot of evidence we don't know about, as well...
Click to expand...

IIRC, the report about KG having a stalker was never verified. KG's sister stated that she was not aware of KG having a stalker, and she believed that KG would have mentioned this to her if that was the case.
 
Just something to consider re AT&T warrant and the possibility of it being informed by BK Reddit Warrant. I just noticed this thanks to @Chloegirl reminding me about BK's reddit use for his Criminal survey project when at DeSales.

BK Reddit
26th Jan-Served
Feb 8th -Link sent for download
March 22nd - Downloaded to MPD computer
March 23rd - Inventory prepared

Latest reason's for sealing - Intimate facts/statements and fair trial.

To explain the delay between link for download and actual download to MPD computer I speculate that between Feb 8th and March 22nd FBI investigators were going through the Return of Property having downloaded from a separate computer on Feb 8th. The receipt statement makes a point of specifying that the info was downloaded to MPD computer on March 22nd. Moo.

What I didn't notice before was the inclusion of the words "phone number" and IMEI unredacted under Description of Property in the Receipt and Inventory. See pages 1-2 of Receipt and Inventory

The Scope for this BK Reddit Warrant is June 1 2022 to present, and is based on PC that there cause to believe the info may be pertinent to the investigation of the murders, not the crimes themselves.

"TO: ANY PEACE OFFICER AUTHORIZED TO ENFORCE OR ASSIST IN
ENFORCING ANY LAW OF THE STATE OF IDAHO.
Lawrence Mowery, having given me proof, upon oath, this day showing probable
cause establishing grounds for issuing a search warrant and there is probable cause to believe that the property referred to and sought in or upon said premises
consists of information related to the investigation of the homicide(s) of Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, XanaKemodle, and/or Ethan Chapin at 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho on the Reddit account ofBryan Kohberger with any of the
following IDENTIFIERS:
Email address(es)
. and/or and/or_: and/or phone number '
and/or IMEI generated on or between June 1, 2022 to present,... "


A week later we have AT&T Warrant for info related to two unknown numbers.

March 30th - Granted
April 3rd -Served
April 12th -Email with requested info.
April13th - Inventory prepared.

Latest reasons for sealing are intimate facts/statements; fair trial; disclosure of investigative technique; might threaten or endanger life or safety of individuals.

Scope is June 23rd (the day BK opened his acc with AT&T) to Aug 1 2022. This time warrant is based on PC that there cause to believe the info may be pertinent to the crime/s of homicide.

"TO: ANY PEACE OFFICER AUTHORIZED TO ENFORCE OR ASSIST IN
ENFORCING ANY LAW OF THE STATE OF IDAHO.
Lawrence Mowery, having given me proof, upon oath, this day showing probable cause establishing grounds for issuing a search warrant and there is probablecause to believe that the property referred to and sought in or upon said premises consists of evidence of the crime(s) of homicide and burglary occurring at
1122 King Road, Moscow Idaho on or about November l3, 2022, to include user
account information, location data, and stored communications held by AT&T, described in further detail as follows:...
...[snipped quote for focus]...
...For the time period of: June 23, 2022, to August 1, 2022

AT&T Wireless Number:
Subscriber Name: Unknown at this time
AT&T Wireless Number:
Subscriber Name: Unknown at this time
To include both Historical Records and Real Time/Provisional
Records..."

It's possible these numbers were uncovered as a result of investigations into BK's reddit account. Moo

 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 163 more.
Total: 2,021 (members: 164, guests: 1,857)

Online statistics

Members online
164
Guests online
1,857
Total visitors
2,021
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
606,853
Messages
18,212,051
Members
233,987
Latest member
Loislooking
Back
Top