Good points, you are probably right. I think @girlhasnoname actually posted the relevant rules just upthread so will have to go back andre- read - from memory court can over-rule and allow in an 'albi defense' later if good cause or something is shown. But apart from that I think you are correct. MooThe whole point (I think and could be wrong) for the defense to have a deadline for offering an alibi is that neither side can try the case by ambush. So, CAN they offer an alibi later on? Certainly, they can throw bricks at the prosecution's case all day long, but I wondered whether they can tell the Judge on Monday that they are offering no alibi and then offer one mid-trial. The Newsweek article below suggested that they may have asked for a deadline extension because his attorneys either don't believe whatever alibi he offered, or they are having trouble proving an alibi that isn't in conflict with the evidence already gathered. That makes me think perhaps they can't offer one later on. I would appreciate hearing from any of our attorneys on this. MOOooo
Bryan Kohberger's team playing for time on alibi—Lawyer
Bryan Kohberger's defense team has asked for more time to decide whether to present an alibi on where the suspect was during the murder of four students.www.newsweek.com
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85
- Thread starter ChatteringBirds
- Start date
- Status
I think you are trying too hard to find an explanation for the unidentified DNA. Don't get in the way of yourself when analyzing a crime scene.
It would not be Ethan's brother's DNA nor that of his best friend because LE took their DNA to rule them out. It's simple and logical.
LE took lots of DNA samples to rule out everyone who knew the occupants of the house.
The 2 other male DNA samples found were inside the house and are unidentified. We don't know anything else about them yet. And then there is the one on the glove outside.
As far as people going upstairs, I have yet to see any photos or video (police bodycam) of men on the 3rd floor of that house with the exception of MM's boyfriend who was photographed with MM. I have seen other, unidentified women up there WITH the victims at parties and in photos. The parties appear to mainly take place on the 2nd floor and outside on the patio. I have seen men come down the front staircase and answer the front door on the 1st floor. That is what the evidence has shown thus far. My suggestion is that you go through all the photos and form your own opinion. But for me, I will stick with what the evidence has shown thus far.
The current college students I know don't allow others into their bedroom unless they are close friends or it is a boyfriend or girlfriend. Why? Because they have stuff in their rooms that someone might steal. To me, that makes sense and I would not be surprised if others did the same.
JMO.
4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.The whole point (I think and could be wrong) for the defense to have a deadline for offering an alibi is that neither side can try the case by ambush. So, CAN they offer an alibi later on? Certainly, they can throw bricks at the prosecution's case all day long, but I wondered whether they can tell the Judge on Monday that they are offering no alibi and then offer one mid-trial. The Newsweek article below suggested that they may have asked for a deadline extension because his attorneys either don't believe whatever alibi he offered, or they are having trouble proving an alibi that isn't in conflict with the evidence already gathered. That makes me think perhaps they can't offer one later on. I would appreciate hearing from any of our attorneys on this. MOOooo
Bryan Kohberger's team playing for time on alibi—Lawyer
Bryan Kohberger's defense team has asked for more time to decide whether to present an alibi on where the suspect was during the murder of four students.
(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section.
Bolded sections state implications of D not filing notice of an Alibi Defense within the time limits demanded by the rules (ie next Monday is deadline for the D to file notice of Alibi Defense when extension of time ends).
From post upthread
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85
IIRC, the report about KG having a stalker was never verified. KG's sister stated that she was not aware of KG having a stalker, and she believed that KG would have mentioned this to her if that was the case. I don’t know if KG had a stalker, but you know, how you develop a strange feeling...
www.websleuths.com
katydid23
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Messages
- 67,638
- Reaction score
- 236,447
I am curious what his explanation for that ^^^ is? How will it fit his alibi?
If he tries to say he was home asleep, that would make no sense. Normally, one would have their phone plugged into the charger, or just sitting unused while one's asleep. No need for airplane mode.
If he was just driving around the area, doing nothing wrong, why put phone in airplane mode?
ArianeEmory
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2013
- Messages
- 5,741
- Reaction score
- 7,120
I think the usual defense in these situations is “my phone battery died and I didn’t have my charging cable”.
*waves to defense team*
And phone forensics should be able to prove that these days - I remember that from Murdaugh (sp?) trial - so D won't want to put forward that unless they are certain it is true - if it's not then he for some reason turned off phone (It was off Imoo) for those two hours either while he was driving around from 2.50am or at home in bed after c2.50am with phone off, only to get up at around 4.15am, drive to highway 95 near Blaine then switch on again at 4.50am. Complicated stuff. Moo
I'm curious about this too. But, we don't really know if he turned the phone off or if he put it in airplane mode or the battery died and he didn't notice until some time later. I am someone whose phone battery has died many, many times without noticing it.
If Def't Does Not Testify at Trial?
Regardless of what of BK's atty may say to the judge at any point, when an Idaho criminal def't. does not testify at trial, the judge gives the jury this standard post-proof jury instruction (among others).
"INSTRUCTION NO. _______
"A defendant in a criminal trial has a constitutional right not to be compelled to testify. The decision whether to testify is left to the defendant, acting with the advice and assistance of the defendant's lawyer. You must not draw any inference of guilt from the fact that the defendant does not testify, nor should this fact be discussed by you or enter into your deliberations in any way."
Just FWIW.
_____________________________________
"ICJI 301 EFFECT OF DEFENDANT'S ELECTION NOT TO TESTIFY"
isc.idaho.gov
snipped for focus @I'm Nobody
Regardless of what of BK's atty may say to the judge at any point, when an Idaho criminal def't. does not testify at trial, the judge gives the jury this standard post-proof jury instruction (among others).
"INSTRUCTION NO. _______
"A defendant in a criminal trial has a constitutional right not to be compelled to testify. The decision whether to testify is left to the defendant, acting with the advice and assistance of the defendant's lawyer. You must not draw any inference of guilt from the fact that the defendant does not testify, nor should this fact be discussed by you or enter into your deliberations in any way."
Just FWIW.
_____________________________________
"ICJI 301 EFFECT OF DEFENDANT'S ELECTION NOT TO TESTIFY"
Criminal Jury Instructions | Supreme Court
I wonder about the extension request by the defense regarding the filing or not filing of an alibi notice. It may be that they just needed more time to make a decsion, but I hope it is not because BK wants to file an alibi notice that is weak and that the defense attorneys aren't comfortable with it going forward, for whatever reason, and don't see it as effective for his case. If BK wants to file an alibi notice, then the defense will have to do so. If they talk him out of it and don't file an alibi notice with the details required, then BK may try to use this to his advantage later on with regard to an appeal.
If BK and his attorneys are in agreement that no alibi notice should be filed with the court, then the clock will just run out, and this will just be a procedural default, no need for the defense to appear before a judge or to notify the prosecution that they don't intend to file an alibi notice. The defense will have chosen not to assert that right, i.e. the right to file an alibi notice. The forfeiture operates automatically if the deadline comes and nothing is filed by the defense.
There is an interesting article in the Chicago Law Review (1984) on the history of the federal and different aspects of states' alibi rules and its establishment in 1975. Some states even exclude a defendant from testifying on his/her own behalf if they have forfeited the alibi rule due to not giving notice at the appropriate time. Idaho doesn't prevent a defendant from such testimony as a sanction for not giving timely notice of the alibi rule, just doesn't allow witness testimony since the prosecution would not have had time to prepare.
Sleuth2010
Verified Insider of David "Dave" Lewis
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2009
- Messages
- 411
- Reaction score
- 1,152
IMOO, MOO,JMO
I AM NOBODY, so eloquently wrote, " in the world about the worst, most heinous, vicious, cruel, savage crime in our society, murdering 4 innocent people..."
The killer <modsnip - namecalling> is behind bars, in a cage, where he belongs. It is an unfathomable crime. The AMAZING team of good law enforcement who made this case, arrested him, transported, tracked and solved the crime are incredible. It is a credit to all justice providers. We are forever thankful for ALL of the team. As always, love to the families, friends, coworkers, and any and all, hurt by this terrible evil. May they find comfort, hope, love somehow...
I AM NOBODY, so eloquently wrote, " in the world about the worst, most heinous, vicious, cruel, savage crime in our society, murdering 4 innocent people..."
The killer <modsnip - namecalling> is behind bars, in a cage, where he belongs. It is an unfathomable crime. The AMAZING team of good law enforcement who made this case, arrested him, transported, tracked and solved the crime are incredible. It is a credit to all justice providers. We are forever thankful for ALL of the team. As always, love to the families, friends, coworkers, and any and all, hurt by this terrible evil. May they find comfort, hope, love somehow...
Last edited by a moderator:
Defense Tactics?
Or on occasion, “my phone battery died and MY DOG ATE my charging cable”.
.
.
. j/k. ;-)
@ArianeEmory Yes, as above.
Or on occasion, “my phone battery died and MY DOG ATE my charging cable”.
.
.
. j/k. ;-)
Idaho transplant
Former Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2023
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 892
Given that James Patterson is supposedly writing a book about the Moscow murders and is said to be releasing the book prior to any potential trial date, if it is publicized as a TRUE crime drama, wouldn't that have the potential to harm both
the defense and prosecution?
the defense and prosecution?
It says, “off or in airplane mode.” So I think that it’s being off would make a better explanation for him. ‘He just turned it off to save the battery.’ That’s a little awkward if he routinely kept a charging cord in his car, of course, but there’s been quite a few times when I didn’t have one in my car.
MOO, not that I believe that explanation
<snipped for focus>
I wonder if these laws have ever stood up to high court scrutiny. How does the strict time limit make sense in the typical case where the trial is delayed for years?
maskedwoman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,612
- Reaction score
- 7,823
That makes sense to me.4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.
(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section.
Bolded sections state implications of D not filing notice of an Alibi Defense within the time limits demanded by the rules (ie next Monday is deadline for the D to file notice of Alibi Defense when extension of time ends).
From post upthread
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85
IIRC, the report about KG having a stalker was never verified. KG's sister stated that she was not aware of KG having a stalker, and she believed that KG would have mentioned this to her if that was the case. I don’t know if KG had a stalker, but you know, how you develop a strange feeling...
Nila Aella
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2022
- Messages
- 1,106
- Reaction score
- 9,098
- 07/12/2023 Defendants 5th Supplemental Request
- 07/12/2023 Defendants 6th Supplemental Request
- 07/12/2023 Stipulated Motion to File
- 07/12/2023 Order to File
- 07/12/2023 Stipulated Motion to File
- 07/12/2023 Order to File
- 07/13/2023 Order to Seal
- 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
- 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
- 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
- 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - T-Mobile
- 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Verizon
With the trial scheduled for October per the defendent's right to a speedy trial, the defense has a discovery obligation to provide information to the prosecution.
In other words, there is a deadline and reciprocal discovery on each side.
Most of the article that I posted above from the Chicago Law Review discusses the constitutionality of the alibi rule and various high court rulings (U.S. Supreme Court and state supreme courts) on cases and issues related to the alibi rule, so there is some precedent on various aspects of the alibi rule.
Idaho law allows for the judge in a case to make exceptions to the alibi rule in certain circumstances, so that is a way to address the constitutional issues related to a defendant's right to make his/her case. Regardless of a timeline imposed by the courts.
The article/analysis is long but interesting as it addresses these issues and with footnotes to case precedents.
JMO, IANAL.
Kaylison
Chronic Lurker
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2014
- Messages
- 37
- Reaction score
- 298
Justice101
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2013
- Messages
- 2,410
- Reaction score
- 15,952
but if they got his cell phone.. they can tell if had enough charge to run if he says it had a dead battery.
- Status