4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #87

[10ofRods]

I agree and think he meant to kill all four of the victims. I don't know why DM and BF were spared, unless things got so hectic that he felt he needed to make a quick get away.

MOO

I've always found it interesting and hard to explain, that someone took a "last picture" of the four that very weekend, Kaylee's last time visiting before heading off to Texas. I believe it was on instagram (which is how MSM got hold of it so quickly). They look joyous and beautiful.

Did this picture provoke him? Make him feel left out? Had he approached more than one of them (without them really even realizing he had)? Was he the stalker that Kaylee sensed was out there?

So many questions. I so want there to be answers, but I"m not sure there truly are answers here. DM and BF had been "first floor" roommates when they first joined the house (the sixth roommate had vacated the room that DM was in, I believe). I suppose it's possible he thought there were two people sleeping on the first floor (if he had been watching for a while).

Your scenario makes a lot of sense, in terms of explaining the bloody footprint. And what he said to Xana.

imo

 

[Chloegirl]

I think someone who takes a knife designed purely to kill humans into another's home, while masked and dressed in black, at four am, while knowing the occupants are home, has at least pondered the act of murder. Why else take the knife? It wasn't a blade he picked up from the kitchen after being surprised in an act of burglary. It was a knife he brought to the scene and stabbed four people to death with, in their beds or at least their bedrooms, and as far as we know, he took nothing but their lives. The motive was to kill. He wasn't chasing them from room to room while they screamed and fought, he killed them where they were sleeping, almost silently. And if the motive was sexual assault, why no mention of that anywhere, at all, in the charges? I agree, the crime was sexually motivated, but I think for him, as I've said before, it was all about the knife. I think the fantasies he had leading up to the crime revolved around it completely. The stabbing itself was the act of rape, to him. It was a complete act in itself, he didn't need to drop trou to feel satisfied. In fact, he strikes me as the sort who might actually be averse to conventional intercourse, all that physical contact and fluids.

Of course, I am not any kind of psych, so this is all just my opinion.

Many heavy heroin addicts are impotent as a result of drug abuse. <modsnip - off limits>. JMOO

 

[I'm Nobody]

Today's thoughts, subject to change daily:

I think both Maddie and Kaylee were passed out fast asleep. He could have crept in and with one well place strike to the heart and a slash across the throat, there would be little to no sounds. If he targeted Maddie first, the movements would have probably woken Kaylee up just enough to realize something was wrong, but again one well placed strike to the heart area and would have killed her instantly or vice versa. (From the food truck video I believe Maddie was more intoxicated than Kaylee).

Maybe that is what Murphy heard going on and he was scuffling around and barking in the bathroom or the empty bedroom which DM heard below. But that occurs around approx. 4:17 am according to PCA.

I have often wondered if he killed Xana and Ethan first. I believe Xana was awake on TikTok having just received her DD order and Ethan had fallen asleep while waiting. Could Xana still have been barely alive and softly crying when he came back down from upstairs and the words "I'm here to help you" were heard? Maybe that's why they found the latent shoe print, he'd obviously stepped in blood fairly recently to have tracked it back to where DM saw him heading to the slider. They didn't find any on the stairs coming down that we know of.

This is so chilling to even type out. It sounds like the script of a terrible horror movie. I am so sorry for all of these victims and their parents and loved ones. It has to be gut wrenching to even imagine. My wish would be that none of them knew what was happening and they went as swiftly and without pain as much as possible.
MOO

#Justice4EthanXanaKayleeMaddie

Thank you @girlhasnoname Agree wish Maddie Kaylee, Xana & Ethan did not suffer, saw nothing.

Here's what I think happened also subject to change:

Kaylee put Murphy in her old bedroom & tried to calm him down. Before returning to Maddie's bedroom, needing to use the bathroom, KG, still half asleep , maybe still a little inebriated, went in, closed the bathroom door, did her business slowly in the dark, smiling while reminiscing about the night, the calls to Jack, her lifelong friendship with Maddie.

KG exited the bathroom. At Maddie's bedroom door, she saw a large dark-clothed masked man on the bed on top of Maddie. Her first thought may have been a rapist. KG said out loud, "There's somebody here." The masked intruder turned to look at KG. Then in a split second, Kaylee had to decide, does she help save her friend or run to save herself? It may not have even been a conscious decision. We know what she decided. Kaylee jumped on BK. Chaos followed. The knife sheath which had been on top of the comforter, next to Maddie, gets pushed & covered by the comforter. Kaylee's wounds reportedly were deep slashes. IMO Slashes not stabs because KG was not letting go of BK so he had no space to pull his arm back for the thrust / stabbing motion he'd just used on Maddie & it provoked him even more. Thus overkill on Kaylee.

Altruism wasn't anything BK knew about. Sure he'd read about it in some remote psychology course but it didn't register with him. These types of friendships weren't a consideration in his plan. That night, no way BK figured on "a hell of a battle" as the coroner reported to Kaylee's dad.

I've wondered what kind of friend I'd be. I'd like to think I'd do my best to try to help my friend, like Kaylee did.
In reality, I don't know.

JMO

edit: coroner's words.

 

[Rumination1]

He himself confirms he was driving in the area

The sheath implies he was in the house

His behaviour after suggests he was not innocent

What am I missing here that makes him and his team believe he can be found not guilty
Phone science is strong.
Camera footage is strong
Dna is strong evidence
He is gonna try to discredit the people . Is there any question in his survey or studies which may indicate h thinks things should go

 

[Jurisprudence]

A strange question after all this time but what if the perp went there intending to 'hot prowl' (a new term, I've learned from this site), kill the dog, and not even slaughter any humans at all?

I think he already did that ... as practice. Hopefully they were able to take evidence there and we'll find out soon enough.

jmo

 

[Rumination1]

IMO, if your theory true MM should have extensive defensive wounds as she would have fought to get away from the killer.

I ve felt that too
Maybe xana was in the kitchen and yelled “ is there somebody here”
On hearing that he had to hasten downstairs by which point she was in the bedroom trying to say help to Ethan to which bK sarcastically remarks. I’m here to help you
Ethan being drunk hadn’t wakened quickly

I had similar with my husband last Saturday
I heard something and prodded him but he didn’t wake so I got up , being naked dashed to the bathroom for my robe ( felt very vulnerable at that stage as I wasn’t sure what was happening ) and then I patrolled the house and garden
Dog accompanied me , alerted to something and I can only suppose it was a fox or a bird
The thing that woke me was I believe the dog moving in the laundry

 

[Jurisprudence]

Today's thoughts, subject to change daily:

I think both Maddie and Kaylee were passed out fast asleep. He could have crept in and with one well place strike to the heart and a slash across the throat, there would be little to no sounds. If he targeted Maddie first, the movements would have probably woken Kaylee up just enough to realize something was wrong, but again one well placed strike to the heart area and would have killed her instantly or vice versa. (From the food truck video I believe Maddie was more intoxicated than Kaylee).

Maybe that is what Murphy heard going on and he was scuffling around and barking in the bathroom or the empty bedroom which DM heard below. But that occurs around approx. 4:17 am according to PCA.

I have often wondered if he killed Xana and Ethan first. I believe Xana was awake on TikTok having just received her DD order and Ethan had fallen asleep while waiting. Could Xana still have been barely alive and softly crying when he came back down from upstairs and the words "I'm here to help you" were heard? Maybe that's why they found the latent shoe print, he'd obviously stepped in blood fairly recently to have tracked it back to where DM saw him heading to the slider. They didn't find any on the stairs coming down that we know of.

This is so chilling to even type out. It sounds like the script of a terrible horror movie. I am so sorry for all of these victims and their parents and loved ones. It has to be gut wrenching to even imagine. My wish would be that none of them knew what was happening and they went as swiftly and without pain as much as possible.
MOO

#Justice4EthanXanaKayleeMaddie

Subject to change daily lol. (I like that)

It's interesting that you say you think K&M were asleep. I have thought (and I don't remember what it was that made me think this) that it was K who DM heard say "There's someone here". But, maybe it was X?

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

He himself confirms he was driving in the area

The sheath implies he was in the house

His behaviour after suggests he was not innocent

What am I missing here that makes him and his team believe he can be found not guilty
Phone science is strong.
Camera footage is strong
Dna is strong evidence
He is gonna try to discredit the people . Is there any question in his survey or studies which may indicate h thinks things should go

I agree and I think she knows this. I think this is why she chose the "he was driving" instead of "he was asleep in his apartment"

Now, that doesn't put him in the house and committing these acts. But as you said, the totality of what we know: the CAST, the sheath, the DNA, the video, seems pretty tough to overcome, especially when his phone was off, and then back on (and we don't even know half of what they have).

He never turned his phone off on any of the previous 12 occasions they tracked him to the King Road residence area during his "night time drives" and we know this because they have the cell phone data laid out in the pca. Imo the defense is essentially acknowledging that they will lose on the CAST data argument and therefore, they knew had to come up with an answer to explain him in the area.

We are not alone. This attorney also agrees, going as far to say he thinks what they've done by that alibi is help the prosecution. I think so too because with the video evidence and cellular data, it'll be very easy to argue to the jury that he admittedly places himself in the immediate vicinity of the scene. And from there "Ladies and gentlemen, we will show you x, y, and z to prove to you that he was in that house and is indeed the person who is guilty of committing these crimes."

jmo

Local prosecutor reacts to Bryan Kohberger's 'curious alibi'

We're learning more about how a Monroe County native plans to defend himself in a high-profile murder case in Idaho.

www.wnep.com

 

[Dhighsmith]

He himself confirms he was driving in the area

The sheath implies he was in the house

His behaviour after suggests he was not innocent

What am I missing here that makes him and his team believe he can be found not guilty
Phone science is strong.
Camera footage is strong
Dna is strong evidence
He is gonna try to discredit the people . Is there any question in his survey or studies which may indicate h thinks things should go

Just like Richard Allen places himself at the bridge in Delphi!

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Thank you @girlhasnoname Agree wish Maddie Kaylee, Xana & Ethan did not suffer, saw nothing.

Here's what I think happened also subject to change:

Kaylee put Murphy in her old bedroom & tried to calm him down. Before returning to Maddie's bedroom, needing to use the bathroom, KG, still half asleep , maybe still a little inebriated, went in, closed the bathroom door, did her business slowly in the dark, smiling while reminiscing about the night, the calls to Jack, her lifelong friendship with Maddie.

KG exited the bathroom. At Maddie's bedroom door, she saw a large dark-clothed masked man on the bed on top of Maddie. Her first thought may have been a rapist. KG said out loud, "There's somebody here." The masked intruder turned to look at KG. Then in a split second, Kaylee had to decide, does she help save her friend or run to save herself? It may not have even been a conscious decision. We know what she decided. Kaylee jumped on BK. Chaos followed. The knife sheath which had been on top of the comforter, next to Maddie, gets pushed & covered by the comforter. Kaylee's wounds reportedly were deep slashes. IMO Slashes not stabs because KG was not letting go of BK so he had no space to pull his arm back for the thrust / stabbing motion he'd just used on Maddie & it provoked him even more. Thus overkill on Kaylee.

Altruism wasn't anything BK knew about. Sure he'd read about it in some remote psychology course but it didn't register with him. These types of friendships weren't a consideration in his plan. That night, no way BK figured on "a hell of a battle" as the coroner reported to Kaylee's dad.

I've wondered what kind of friend I'd be. I'd like to think I'd do my best to try to help my friend, like Kaylee did.
In reality, I don't know.

JMO

edit: coroner's words.

RBBM

Interesting speculation.

FWIW, it’s Kaylee’s dad who attributes those words to the coroner as description of what happened on the middle floor where Xana & Ethan were murdered:
“Kernodle, who was in a bed on another floor of the house with her boyfriend Chapin when they died, had defensive wounds and went through “a hell of a battle” to try to survive, the coroner apparently told Goncalves.”

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

He himself confirms he was driving in the area

The sheath implies he was in the house

His behaviour after suggests he was not innocent

What am I missing here that makes him and his team believe he can be found not guilty
Phone science is strong.
Camera footage is strong
Dna is strong evidence
He is gonna try to discredit the people . Is there any question in his survey or studies which may indicate h thinks things should go

the shoe print
the eyewitness description

plus there's bound to be tons of stuff we don't know about

 

[foreverlennon]

I think he already did that ... as practice. Hopefully they were able to take evidence there and we'll find out soon enough.

jmo

What does hot prowl mean? And why kill Murphy?

 

[Jurisprudence]

I like the part of this video where he lays out what facts BK has committed himself to that are consistent with the theory of the prosecution's case. And, he rattles them off:

He was up
He was out
He was alone
He was in that Hyundai Elantra

This is what he's just committed himself to by that filing.

At 1:50

Local prosecutor reacts to Bryan Kohberger's 'curious alibi'

We're learning more about how a Monroe County native plans to defend himself in a high-profile murder case in Idaho.

www.wnep.com

 

[Sillybilly]

Bumping from the Opening Posts:

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #87

This tragedy seems to be breaking news: Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Boxer]

Just like Richard Allen places himself at the bridge in Delphi!

Yes, except the Moscow police didn't lose their lead.

 

[I'm Nobody]

Hot Prowl

What does hot prowl mean? snipped for focus

Welcome @foreverlennon I hadn't heard of "hot prowl" either until reading it here. It means somebody is home when the prowler enters. What it's called depends on where you live, in what jurisdiction.
My state's statutes still lists it as a "home invasion" when someone is home at the time of entry.


JMO

Wikipedia: A home invasion, also called a hot prowl burglary, is a sub-type of burglary.

According to the Escondido Police Department
"A "Hot Prowl" is a burglary when a subject enters, or attempts to enter your home while someone is home. A hot prowl burglary is dangerous because of the possible confrontation between the subject and victim."

 

[lgh0309]

I agree and I think she knows this. I think this is why she chose the "he was driving" instead of "he was asleep in his apartment"

Now, that doesn't put him in the house and committing these acts. But as you said, the totality of what we know: the CAST, the sheath, the DNA, the video, seems pretty tough to overcome, especially when his phone was off, and then back on (and we don't even know half of what they have).

He never turned his phone off on any of the previous 12 occasions they tracked him to the King Road residence area during his "night time drives" and we know this because they have the cell phone data laid out in the pca. Imo the defense is essentially acknowledging that they will lose on the CAST data argument and therefore, they knew had to come up with an answer to explain him in the area.

We are not alone. This attorney also agrees, going as far to say he thinks what they've done by that alibi is help the prosecution. I think so too because with the video evidence and cellular data, it'll be very easy to argue to the jury that he admittedly places himself in the immediate vicinity of the scene. And from there "Ladies and gentlemen, we will show you x, y, and z to prove to you that he was in that house and is indeed the person who is guilty of committing these crimes."

jmo

Local prosecutor reacts to Bryan Kohberger's 'curious alibi'

We're learning more about how a Monroe County native plans to defend himself in a high-profile murder case in Idaho.

www.wnep.com

i do not understand this theory that BK is so strongly influencing strategy. clients get to decide whether to plea or go to trial, whether to testify, and whether to appeal. that’s it. strategy is left to the lawyer. i suppose there’s a hail mary/nothing better to say aspect to this, but i think it’s a terrible decision MOO

 

[schooling]

Just curious if you remember the source for "bed up against the wall." That's how I picture it as well, but I'm not sure how we know that. I know the rooms are small - but college students will use 8 inches of space so that each person can get out of a double/queen bed. I don't think we even know what size mattress, but when the mattresses were carried out, they looked like Queen mattresses to me.

IMO.

I'll try and find the sources. Essentially they were publicly available / published pictures that they took at one point or another inside of the home on King Rd.

If you've ever done one of those creepy virtual walkthroughs the positions of all of the furniture was sourced from images in the press and/or the victims published social media.

This of course doesn't mean that those positions were maintained up until 11/12/2022.

 

[TL4S]

Subject to change daily lol. (I like that)

It's interesting that you say you think K&M were asleep. I have thought (and I don't remember what it was that made me think this) that it was K who DM heard say "There's someone here". But, maybe it was X?

jmo

I've debated this often in my mind. Why not trust the roommate to recognize the voice and location of who said it? But I also see no need for LE to suggest it could have been X unless they saw reason to question it.

Here's my thinking now. DM heard noises upstairs. She naturally thought it was dog playing, but if K said "there's someone here," that means she was attacked after she said it. Why didn't DM hear anything then? She could have, and it wasn't included in the PCA, but I'm sure phone texts between roommates will verify this.

How do you kill two people, in one upstairs bed that's likely up against a wall, and directly overhead of DM, and not have DM hear it if she's able to hear dog playing? I just can't help but associate the noises DM heard with the attacks, not Murphy. Jmo

And the way LE chose to describe the narrative in the PCA, is that the noises preceded the "there's someone here" statement. The next noise DM heard, per the PCA, was crying in X's room.

.

 

[jepop]

Think about what kind of evidence the defense has likely seen to cause them to essentially (not entirely) concede to portions of the CCTV footage and cellular evidence.

“Sure that might have been his car. But he had no motive to go into that house. Police were pressured to take shortcuts and rush to judgement” is their entire case. Presented through cross examination and likely a DNA expert.

One thing I’ve been saying for a bit now that I think is even more likely. The defense will probably press DM and BF on how familiar they were with everyone who attended their parties. Stopping just short of openly declaring that BK had been there before.

They have to plant seeds to spark the jury’s imagination of ways the DNA could have gotten into that house. Then transferred onto that sheath. Without saying it.

IMO it’s all for naught though. There’s just too much. And this alibi is super duper weak.

MOO

Yes, great points.

Also, the portion of the alibi that's been revealed makes me think the defense is conceding the ping/location data and video evidence for 13th Nov before BK turns off his phone and after he turns it back on. I'm assuming the phone was deliberately turned off - a case of dead battery will be proveable forensically? Moo

What I think is that defense concedes the evidence shows BK was in his car with his phone switched on in Pullman 2.40 to 2.55 (if not earlier). That was BK, that was his car, that was his phone. And that from 4.48am to 5.30am - that was also BK in his car with his phone south of Moscow near Blaine on 95. And that is him driving back to Pullman - the pings moving at car travel speed between 95 near Blaine and 1300 Johnston Rd. Pullman - where his car is first captured on video at c 5.25. (per PCA).

Imo the albi will have to show him being somewhere else - either driving or at standstill or a combo of both - between 4am and 4.20am - and then show how he ended up on Highway 95 near Blaine at 4.50am. If the D is saying there is no "connection" between BK and victims then it seems unlikley to me that the alibi will involve either BK or DM having knowledge of BK being elsewhere and unless he says he had a second device in his car which he has since disposed of and there is evidence for that - there isn't going to be any digital/electronic evidence to support his alibi.Moo