4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #87

[TL4S]

IMO, if your theory true MM should have extensive defensive wounds as she would have fought to get away from the killer.

That's maybe true, but we really don't know the extent of injuries beyond what some of the family has reported. We also don't know how quickly each victim was incapacitated. Waking up to that kind of shock, trying to flee...I'm not going to assume someone will fight back, or even have the time to.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That's maybe true, but we really don't know the extent of injuries beyond what some of the family has reported. We also don't know how quickly each victim was incapacitated. Waking up to that kind of shock, trying to flee...I'm not going to assume someone will fight back, or even have the time to.

For M and K, I imagine if one was fast asleep having gone out drinking quite a lot and eaten quite a lot on the way home in the small hours after a long day, then one might not even be so easily roused and hopefully never even knew what happened. It's gruesome to wonder about and also if the perpetrator mutilated them somehow, sorry for being grim. Maybe we'll never know.

 

[Balthazar]

That's maybe true, but we really don't know the extent of injuries beyond what some of the family has reported. We also don't know how quickly each victim was incapacitated. Waking up to that kind of shock, trying to flee...I'm not going to assume someone will fight back, or even have the time to.

What little we know - that the knife sheath was partially under MM and under the comforter is interesting at it indicates her shoulder must have been off the bed at one point in order for the sheath to get there. Either she would be sleeping on her side and turned over onto the sheath or she was sleeping on her back and reached up or tried to sit up. It is interesting she and the sheath were under the cover when found. I wonder if KG was under the cover as well?

 

[TL4S]

What little we know - that the knife sheath was partially under MM and under the comforter is interesting at it indicates her shoulder must have been off the bed at one point in order for the sheath to get there. Either she would be sleeping on her side and turned over onto the sheath or she was sleeping on her back and reached up or tried to sit up. It is interesting she and the sheath were under the cover when found. I wonder if KG was under the cover as well?

Here's what trips me up. That June 16th filing specifies that the sheath was under the comforter, but it did not specify that MM's body was under the comforter. So we really don't know if she was or not.

 

[kittythehare]

A strange question after all this time but what if the perp went there intending to 'hot prowl' (a new term,

In that case his intentions went completely askew.

 

[iamshadow21]

A strange question after all this time but what if the perp went there intending to 'hot prowl' (a new term, I've learned from this site), kill the dog, and not even slaughter any humans at all?

Still first-degree murder. The moment he entered the home without permission, the deaths that followed after are charged under that enhancement. Whether he went there to kill humans, or a dog, or just steal really doesn't matter. The result is, four people are dead, and if he hadn't entered their home, they wouldn't be.

MOO

 

[Balthazar]

Here's what trips me up. That June 16th filing specifies that the sheath was under the comforter, but it did not specify that MM's body was under the comforter. So we really don't know if she was or not.

True. I really wonder what the girls were wearing. Did they still have on their street clothes or had they changed to night clothes? There are so many unanswered questions in this case

 

[Boxer]

That's maybe true, but we really don't know the extent of injuries beyond what some of the family has reported. We also don't know how quickly each victim was incapacitated. Waking up to that kind of shock, trying to flee...I'm not going to assume someone will fight back, or even have the time to.

A sleepy drunk young women and a man with boxing skills and a killing knife?
One placed blow to each with that thing and there would not be any screaming, even if there have would been.

 

[TL4S]

A sleepy drunk young women and a man with boxing skills and a killing knife?
One placed blow to each with that thing and there would not be any screaming, even if there have would been.

This is what I think about a lot. Sleepy, inebriated, small women against a big, ill-intentioned, athletic guy with a giant knife. I just don't see it as a fair fight, and likely not the struggling for their lives that we might expect. There simply wasn't time... at least for the upstairs girls. But we do know DM heard loud sounds, which leads me to believe they occurred right above her bedroom, in MM's room. So there was some kind of movement, which then leads me back to the wall right next to the bed.

 

[schooling]

A sleepy drunk young women and a man with boxing skills and a killing knife?
One placed blow to each with that thing and there would not be any screaming, even if there have would been.

Plus, the beds were up against walls. Which means he likely had them pinned with nowhere to escape too.

This likely explains the purported blood seeping into the flooring, down the studs/insulated walls and out under the vinyl siding to the foundation.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Still first-degree murder. The moment he entered the home without permission, the deaths that followed after are charged under that enhancement. Whether he went there to kill humans, or a dog, or just steal really doesn't matter. The result is, four people are dead, and if he hadn't entered their home, they wouldn't be.

MOO

I wasn't trying to imply anything other than that. It's just the first time it's occurred to me that he may have gone there not actually intending to decease anyone at all, hence accidentally leaving the sheath etc.

 

[Boxer]

I wasn't trying to imply anything other than that. It's just the first time it's occurred to me that he may have gone there not actually intending to decease anyone at all, hence accidentally leaving the sheath etc.

Sure IMHO he may have gone to rape and it went sideways.

 

[10ofRods]

Regarding the alibi issue I get the impression that the defense wants to see all the evidence and then mold BK's alibi to fit.

This may be a perfectly legitimate strategy because an alibi put up earlier might turn out to be weak or even impossible once the State has rolled out it's entire evidential case. But the defense's approach seems at odds with the rationale of requiring an accused to stump up with any alibi within a strict timeframe. An alibi presented before all (or especially any) evidence is revealed by the prosecution which turns out to be open on the evidence would have far more persuasive value than the same alibi disclosed only after the defendant has seen the State's cards.

I think that's why the law is as it is, in 40 of these United States. An alibi is an alibi. It is straightforward. The person in question knows or remembers where they were. Period. Full stop. They were either with other people or not, or have electronic evidence of their whereabouts, or they do not.

In this case, Kohberger states he was out driving around. Since he does it frequently, surely he remembers that he went and approximately where he was. He is his own alibi.

It's a very weak alibi. Apparently, his own phone does corroborate that he was out and about from about 3 am to 5 am and then again from about 8:30 am to late afternoon on Sunday (IIRC). Twice he goes from Pullman to Moscow. One time, he turns his phone off (unfortunately for his alibi, it's during the window where the murders were committed).

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

A strange question after all this time but what if the perp went there intending to 'hot prowl' (a new term, I've learned from this site), kill the dog, and not even slaughter any humans at all?

My response to that is obvious: he changed his mind.

I don't think <modsnip> Kohberger went to kill a dog. But if he did, he ended up doing something else.

I don't think we'll ever know the answer to your question. He would take the Fifth, I believe, if directly asked on cross-examination about many of his actions that night. And about his knowledge of the house and about his motivations for driving to Moscow. Or he'll lie.

Of course I could be totally wrong and he'll get on the stand and confess everything under cross-examination. That would floor and dismay AT, which could be a reason for him to do it - I don't know the man personally, but if he is the killer, I'd go out on a limb and say he has a problem with women. And with men who are liked by women. (So virtually the entire world).

JMO.

 

[TL4S]

I wasn't trying to imply anything other than that. It's just the first time it's occurred to me that he may have gone there not actually intending to decease anyone at all, hence accidentally leaving the sheath etc.

Regardless why he entered the house, I feel like taking on two girls nearly at once, in the same bed or one entering the scene mid-attack, would rush things. Perhaps K's wounds were more severe (if this is true) because he had to finish her off quickly to get M before she could get off the bed (or vice versa). Their likely impaired reflexes (due to sleep, alcohol, shock) gave him some advantage, possibly, but I still think he had very little time between these two victims, hence forgetting or not knowing the location of the sheath.

Plus, at that point, he likely knew people downstairs were aware of something going on. He could have climbed out the window and jumped off the deck, but instead he went downstairs and murdered two more people. I think the sheath had absolutely left his mind by then. He felt the knife in his hand, and the feel of plunging it into another human being(s), and imo, he was ready to take on more. Sheath schmeath.

Once he left that upstairs floor, it was too late to go back for the sheath, no matter when he actually realized his mistake.

 

[iamshadow21]

I wasn't trying to imply anything other than that. It's just the first time it's occurred to me that he may have gone there not actually intending to decease anyone at all, hence accidentally leaving the sheath etc.

I think someone who takes a knife designed purely to kill humans into another's home, while masked and dressed in black, at four am, while knowing the occupants are home, has at least pondered the act of murder. Why else take the knife? It wasn't a blade he picked up from the kitchen after being surprised in an act of burglary. It was a knife he brought to the scene and stabbed four people to death with, in their beds or at least their bedrooms, and as far as we know, he took nothing but their lives. The motive was to kill. He wasn't chasing them from room to room while they screamed and fought, he killed them where they were sleeping, almost silently. And if the motive was sexual assault, why no mention of that anywhere, at all, in the charges? I agree, the crime was sexually motivated, but I think for him, as I've said before, it was all about the knife. I think the fantasies he had leading up to the crime revolved around it completely. The stabbing itself was the act of rape, to him. It was a complete act in itself, he didn't need to drop trou to feel satisfied. In fact, he strikes me as the sort who might actually be averse to conventional intercourse, all that physical contact and fluids.

Of course, I am not any kind of psych, so this is all just my opinion.

 

[girlhasnoname]

A sleepy drunk young women and a man with boxing skills and a killing knife?
One placed blow to each with that thing and there would not be any screaming, even if there have would been.

Today's thoughts, subject to change daily:

I think both Maddie and Kaylee were passed out fast asleep. He could have crept in and with one well place strike to the heart and a slash across the throat, there would be little to no sounds. If he targeted Maddie first, the movements would have probably woken Kaylee up just enough to realize something was wrong, but again one well placed strike to the heart area and would have killed her instantly or vice versa. (From the food truck video I believe Maddie was more intoxicated than Kaylee).

Maybe that is what Murphy heard going on and he was scuffling around and barking in the bathroom or the empty bedroom which DM heard below. But that occurs around approx. 4:17 am according to PCA.

I have often wondered if he killed Xana and Ethan first. I believe Xana was awake on TikTok having just received her DD order and Ethan had fallen asleep while waiting. Could Xana still have been barely alive and softly crying when he came back down from upstairs and the words "I'm here to help you" were heard? Maybe that's why they found the latent shoe print, he'd obviously stepped in blood fairly recently to have tracked it back to where DM saw him heading to the slider. They didn't find any on the stairs coming down that we know of.

This is so chilling to even type out. It sounds like the script of a terrible horror movie. I am so sorry for all of these victims and their parents and loved ones. It has to be gut wrenching to even imagine. My wish would be that none of them knew what was happening and they went as swiftly and without pain as much as possible.
MOO

#Justice4EthanXanaKayleeMaddie

 

[Boxer]

Today's thoughts, subject to change daily:

I think both Maddie and Kaylee were passed out fast asleep. He could have crept in and with one well place strike to the heart and a slash across the throat, there would be little to no sounds. If he targeted Maddie first, the movements would have probably woken Kaylee up just enough to realize something was wrong, but again one well placed strike to the heart area and would have killed her instantly or vice versa. (From the food truck video I believe Maddie was more intoxicated than Kaylee).

Maybe that is what Murphy heard going on and he was scuffling around and barking in the bathroom or the empty bedroom which DM heard below. But that occurs around approx. 4:17 am according to PCA.

I have often wondered if he killed Xana and Ethan first. I believe Xana was awake on TikTok having just received her DD order and Ethan had fallen asleep while waiting. Could Xana still have been barely alive and softly crying when he came back down from upstairs and the words "I'm here to help you" were heard? Maybe that's why they found the latent shoe print, he'd obviously stepped in blood fairly recently to have tracked it back to where DM saw him heading to the slider. They didn't find any on the stairs coming down that we know of.

This is so chilling to even type out. It sounds like the script of a terrible horror movie. I am so sorry for all of these victims and their parents and loved ones. It has to be gut wrenching to even imagine. My wish would be that none of them knew what was happening and they went as swiftly and without pain as much as possible.
MOO

#Justice4EthanXanaKayleeMaddie

A Nightmare.

 

[10ofRods]

Plus, the beds were up against walls. Which means he likely had them pinned with nowhere to escape too.

This likely explains the purported blood seeping into the flooring, down the studs/insulated walls and out under the vinyl siding to the foundation.

Just curious if you remember the source for "bed up against the wall." That's how I picture it as well, but I'm not sure how we know that. I know the rooms are small - but college students will use 8 inches of space so that each person can get out of a double/queen bed. I don't think we even know what size mattress, but when the mattresses were carried out, they looked like Queen mattresses to me.

IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think someone who takes a knife designed purely to kill humans into another's home, while masked and dressed in black, at four am, while knowing the occupants are home, has at least pondered the act of murder. Why else take the knife? It wasn't a blade he picked up from the kitchen after being surprised in an act of burglary. It was a knife he brought to the scene and stabbed four people to death with, in their beds or at least their bedrooms, and as far as we know, he took nothing but their lives. The motive was to kill. He wasn't chasing them from room to room while they screamed and fought, he killed them where they were sleeping, almost silently. And if the motive was sexual assault, why no mention of that anywhere, at all, in the charges? I agree, the crime was sexually motivated, but I think for him, as I've said before, it was all about the knife. I think the fantasies he had leading up to the crime revolved around it completely. The stabbing itself was the act of rape, to him. It was a complete act in itself, he didn't need to drop trou to feel satisfied. In fact, he strikes me as the sort who might actually be averse to conventional intercourse, all that physical contact and fluids.

Of course, I am not any kind of psych, so this is all just my opinion.

I agree and think he meant to kill all four of the victims. I don't know why DM and BF were spared, unless things got so hectic that he felt he needed to make a quick get away.

MOO