4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #87

[Jurisprudence]

22,000 Elantras is how many LE described as being registered in the area that they were having to look at in trying to find the Elantra they were interested in between 2011 and 2013. Then later the date range changed from 2011-2013 to 2011- 2015 which would up the number of registered Elantras they were weeding through to approximately 35,000 take or give a few. Idaho killings: Moscow police sort through 22,000 Hyundai Elantras

We also know that 90 white Elantras were registered to park at the U of I Moscow: Idaho murders: 90 white Elantras were registered to park on campus as cops struggle to find vehicle


Please see above. I remember this so well as I was so astounded by the number of vehicles LE was going to have weed through in hopes of finding the right white Hyundai Elantra.

Thank you. I was actually curious about the statements regarding the number of out of state registrations at the school of that make model and year from states requiring no front plate, and the reports that they have no video evidence of the vehicle ever entering Moscow. We'll find out eventually. But, thanks again.

 

[jepop]

What is meant by "the area"? That sounds like the number for the entire state of Idaho - is that what is meant by area?

I don't think the position of the car is based only on camera footage. There is a phone, belonging to Kohberger, in the car and it accompanied the car - unless the Defense can figure out how it only seemed to travel with the car for most of two journeys on that night/day.

It's not as if the car sightings on video are the only evidence. The PHONE provides the route by which he traveled to and from Moscow (with the phone turned off for part of it). Fortunately, he provided photographic proof that he and his phone traveled with the car by stopping at Albertson's just hours after the killings.

How does his phone get to Blaine? What possible evidence could the Defense use to show that the phone somehow got there without the car?

Absolutely. No reasonable evidence could show, Imo, that his phone was at Blaine without his car. I think the D knows that is uncontestable -the alibi (if it comes) will aim to show how he got from point x to 95 near Blaine. Sure, there is no video evidence that we know of that correlates with BK's phone pinging from 95 near Blaine to 1300 Johnston road...but the phone travels at the speed of a vehicle mapping out a route and then at 5.25am there is the elantra in concert with the pings. And then from there to almost all the way up Stadium Way Pullman we have pings in concert with video footage. It would be unreasonable for any juror to conclude from that evidence that it was not BK's elantra and phone together on 95 near Blaine at 4.48am. The D won't seriously contest that Imo - that is, Moo, why Bk knows his alibi has to include driving around somewhere about there just before 4.48am when his phone comes back on-line. Moo

 

[Boxer]

I didn't see any of that evidence about the number of white Hyundai Elantras of that same model year that were present in the state of Idaho but from (and registered in) states requiring only a rear license plate. Do you have a link?

I haven't seen any of that other evidence you mentioned either because it's all under seal and has been kept out of public discussion via the gag order. All I saw was a statement that they continued collect mountains of footage obtained not only from neighboring residences but also from businesses but that they hadn't even gone through as of the date of the pca. After that they stopped talking. They weren't clear about traffic cameras, but I got the sense that they obtained a lot more footage than we the public know about.

If I missed these things I'd be very interested in a link because I want to keep up to date with this case. TIA

jmo

Agree.

 

[Boxer]

Absolutely. No reasonable evidence could show, Imo, that his phone was at Blaine without his car. I think the D knows that is uncontestable -the alibi (if it comes) will aim to show how he got from point x to 95 near Blaine. Sure, there is no video evidence that we know of that correlates with BK's phone pinging from 95 near Blaine to 1300 Johnston road...but the phone travels at the speed of a vehicle mapping out a route and then at 5.25am there is the elantra in concert with the pings. And then from there to almost all the way up Stadium Way Pullman we have pings in concert with video footage. It would be unreasonable for any juror to conclude from that evidence that it was not BK's elantra and phone together on 95 near Blaine at 4.48am. The D won't seriously contest that Imo - that is, Moo, why Bk knows his alibi has to include driving around somewhere about there just before 4.48am when his phone comes back on-line. Moo

Stalling, and esy to see why.

 

[Boxer]

I couldn't agree more! I cannot comprehend this; it defies all logic. He drove by the crime scene on the night/day of the crime, and he doesn't recall that.

I have always had a fascination with hot car deaths. There's something about the science of forgetting that intrigues me. Anyway, the death of Cooper Harris happened practically in my back yard. [Still praying for you, little man.] I had previously worked for the same company as Ross Harris. I can still remember the day of Cooper's death like it was yesterday. I can recall the temperature. I can recall what I was doing. The route that his dad took from work to the spot where he realized Cooper was dead will forever be etched in my mind. Why do I remember these things? Because this was the day that Cooper Harris died because his dad left him in a hot car. I can assure you that I don't remember the weather of many days from nearly a decade ago.

For a criminology major, it's fascinating that he cannot remember his whereabouts during the exact time frame of the murders, especially since this was all over the news within hours. This is quite possibly the biggest crime in Idaho history. Plus, he drove by the murder scene three times that night/day! And he still cannot recall his whereabouts. I would think he would be thinking along the lines of.... I cannot believe that I was so close to the crime. I circled the house three times, but then I drove to XYZ before returning home. This seems so surreal.

Also apparently he missed class on Monday so he had lots of time to consider he was out driving at the time.

 

[Sundog]

I wasn't able to find information specific to Idaho with regard to the withdrawal of intention to present an alibi defense, but I did find how another state addresses the issue of the defense withdrawing their notice of an alibi defense. It is interesting that if the defense withdraws their intention to rely on an alibi defense, then it is not admissibile against the defendant in a criminal proceeding.

I assume that this is the same in Idaho and most of the other states that have established the alibi rule.

Below is the law in Illinois on the inadmissibility of a withdrawn intention (source is Cornell Law School, Legal Information Institute).

(f) Inadmissibility of Withdrawn Intention. Evidence of an intention to rely on an alibi defense, later withdrawn, or of a statement made in connection with that intention, is not, in any civil or criminal proceeding, admissible against the person who gave notice of the intention.

Rule 12.1 Notice of an Alibi Defense

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[Balthazar]

Thank you. I was actually curious about the statements regarding the number of out of state registrations at the school of that make model and year from states requiring no front plate, and the reports that they have no video evidence of the vehicle ever entering Moscow. We'll find out eventually. But, thanks again.

The lack of video evidence of the vehicle leaving Pullman and entering Moscow is from the PCA. The vehicle was seen in Pullman headed towards the highway to Moscow but not getting on the highway. The trail goes cold at that point. Next thing you know a white Elantra is seen in the 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow. (page 5 of PCA - last paragraph). White sedan spotted in Pullman (page 7 of PCA). If you read carefully, you will come to realize there is nothing that links the white sedan spotted in Pullman to the white Elantra that appears on the 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow. The 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow is NOT on the way to 1122 King Rd from Pullman - it is well past the destination of 1122 King Rd and on the other side of Moscow and, frustratingly, it appears there is no proof it is definitely the same vehicle as the one in Pullman. It is assumed to be the same vehicle due to timing but with so many white Elantras out there, these could be two different vehicles. Given what little evidence we have, there is no way to know, right now.

With all the traffic and security cameras out there it is really hard for me to believe that LE couldn't find at minimum:

1. Video showing the white sedan entered the highway from Pullman to Moscow or at least was on the highway at some point.
2. Video showing exactly where the white sedan from Pullman exited the highway into Moscow. Gas station security camera, traffic camera, anything...
3. Where the white Elantra was BEFORE it was at 700 Indian Hills Dr. We know for certain that it didn't magically teleport there. This is a fairly upscale neighborhood with condos, apartments and then large newish homes. I would expect lots of ring cameras and security cameras in the area. So where was it BEFORE it was at 700 Indian Hills Dr? Why was it there? Does that location have anything to do with what transpired?

These questions need to be answered at the trial, IMO.

 

[Boxer]

The lack of video evidence of the vehicle leaving Pullman and entering Moscow is from the PCA. The vehicle was seen in Pullman headed towards the highway to Moscow but not getting on the highway. The trail goes cold at that point. Next thing you know a white Elantra is seen in the 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow. (page 5 of PCA - last paragraph). White sedan spotted in Pullman (page 7 of PCA). If you read carefully, you will come to realize there is nothing that links the white sedan spotted in Pullman to the white Elantra that appears on the 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow. The 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow is NOT on the way to 1122 King Rd from Pullman - it is well past the destination of 1122 King Rd and on the other side of Moscow and, frustratingly, it appears there is no proof it is definitely the same vehicle as the one in Pullman. It is assumed to be the same vehicle due to timing but with so many white Elantras out there, these could be two different vehicles. Given what little evidence we have, there is no way to know, right now.

With all the traffic and security cameras out there it is really hard for me to believe that LE couldn't find at minimum:

1. Video showing the white sedan entered the highway from Pullman to Moscow or at least was on the highway at some point.
2. Video showing exactly where the white sedan from Pullman exited the highway into Moscow. Gas station security camera, traffic camera, anything...
3. Where the white Elantra was BEFORE it was at 700 Indian Hills Dr. We know for certain that it didn't magically teleport there. This is a fairly upscale neighborhood with condos, apartments and then large newish homes. I would expect lots of ring cameras and security cameras in the area. So where was it BEFORE it was at 700 Indian Hills Dr? Why was it there? Does that location have anything to do with what transpired?

These questions need to be answered at the trial, IMO.

Only one had a driver whose DNA was at the scene of the crime.

 

[Chloegirl]

The lack of video evidence of the vehicle leaving Pullman and entering Moscow is from the PCA. The vehicle was seen in Pullman headed towards the highway to Moscow but not getting on the highway. The trail goes cold at that point. Next thing you know a white Elantra is seen in the 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow. (page 5 of PCA - last paragraph). White sedan spotted in Pullman (page 7 of PCA). If you read carefully, you will come to realize there is nothing that links the white sedan spotted in Pullman to the white Elantra that appears on the 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow. The 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow is NOT on the way to 1122 King Rd from Pullman - it is well past the destination of 1122 King Rd and on the other side of Moscow and, frustratingly, it appears there is no proof it is definitely the same vehicle as the one in Pullman. It is assumed to be the same vehicle due to timing but with so many white Elantras out there, these could be two different vehicles. Given what little evidence we have, there is no way to know, right now.

With all the traffic and security cameras out there it is really hard for me to believe that LE couldn't find at minimum:

1. Video showing the white sedan entered the highway from Pullman to Moscow or at least was on the highway at some point.
2. Video showing exactly where the white sedan from Pullman exited the highway into Moscow. Gas station security camera, traffic camera, anything...
3. Where the white Elantra was BEFORE it was at 700 Indian Hills Dr. We know for certain that it didn't magically teleport there. This is a fairly upscale neighborhood with condos, apartments and then large newish homes. I would expect lots of ring cameras and security cameras in the area. So where was it BEFORE it was at 700 Indian Hills Dr? Why was it there? Does that location have anything to do with what transpired?

These questions need to be answered at the trial, IMO.

That's because you don't need to take the highway there are probably I don't know 12 different roads you could take that are different or combination of them, with your avoiding detection you would not be on the highway at all you would sneak in on rural roads (or at least he would, I wouldn't). Time will tell. JMOO

 

[Balthazar]

That's because you don't need to take the highway there are probably I don't know 12 different roads you could take that are different or combination of them, with your avoiding detection you would not be on the highway at all you would sneak in on rural roads (or at least he would, I wouldn't). Time will tell. JMOO

Thank you. I look forward to this evidence being presented at the trial.

 

[Chloegirl]

That's because you don't need to take the highway there are probably I don't know 12 different roads you could take that are different or combination of them, with your avoiding detection you would not be on the highway at all you would sneak in on rural roads (or at least he would, I wouldn't). Time will tell. JMOO

Random question so I replied to my own post because I literally couldn't figure out how to start a new conversation:

Ihttps://abcnews.go.com/US/idaho-murders-2-surviving-roommates-break-silence/story?id=94477961

I think earlier I assumed the photograph was taken at the house but by does anyone know if this is accurate or even who took this photograph? Bugging me TIA.

 

[jepop]

That's because you don't need to take the highway there are probably I don't know 12 different roads you could take that are different or combination of them, with your avoiding detection you would not be on the highway at all you would sneak in on rural roads (or at least he would, I wouldn't). Time will tell. JMOO

I believe LE have done their due diligence. Imo the P will be able to reasonably connect the elantra that left King Road at 4.20am with the elantra that turns up on Hwy 95 near Blaine at 4.48am and from there pings it way back to the vicinity of BK's residence. Moo there will likely be no other elantras on video footge at that time of night at other exit points covered by cameras in Moscow and at the the major outliers such as Troy (msm reported LE going at least that far in that direction to look at/collect footage) and turn-offs to Lewiston/Clarkson at 95 and highway 195 in the south. If there are any, you can be sure LE followed up the leads. Moo

In the meantime, elantra owners in the rural area south of Moscow - not so many I imagine - would have been alibied Imoo. Possibly in the rural area east of Moscow too. Moo. And many in Pullman and Moscow itself. Remembering the massive amount of work that went unknown and unsung in December after the elantra hotline opened. Although since as early as Nov 25th LE Imoo were likely working on elantra alibis -beginning as soon as the SV1 footage was known and analysed, Imo. All above is speculated and Moo

 

[Chloegirl]

I believe LE have done their due diligence. Imo the P will be able to reasonably connect the elantra that left King Road at 4.20am with the elantra that turns up on Hwy 95 near Blaine at 4.48am and from there pings it way back to the vicinity of BK's residence. Moo there will likely be no other elantras on video footge at that time of night at other exit points covered by cameras in Moscow and at the the major outliers such as Troy (msm reported LE going at least that far in that direction to look at/collect footage) and turn-offs to Lewiston/Clarkson at 95 and highway 195 in the south. If there are any, you can be sure LE followed up the leads. Moo

In the meantime, elantra owners in the rural area south of Moscow - not so many I imagine - would have been alibied Imoo. Possibly in the rural area east of Moscow too. Moo. And many in Pullman and Moscow itself. Remembering the massive amount of work that went unknown and unsung in December after the elantra hotline opened. Although since as early as Nov 25th LE Imoo were likely working on elantra alibis -beginning as soon as the SV1 footage was known and analysed, Imo. All above is speculated and Moo

Right, I wasn't commenting on that. I was basically saying there are a lot of routes to go you don't have to take the highway. I'm sort of unclear as to why this is in question. It's a very rural area and I'm not going to say farm houses have ring cameras!! JMOO

 

[jepop]

Right, I wasn't commenting on that. I was basically saying there are a lot of routes to go you don't have to take the highway. I'm sort of unclear as to why this is in question. It's a very rural area and I'm not going to say farm houses have ring cameras!! JMOO

No I understand.What I'm saying is that if it turns out that there is no supporting video footage connecting BK elantra to Indian Hills Drive, that won't matter. If it turns out that way, the P will speculate the route he took to arrive on Indian Hills Drive and that will be reasonable because due diligence as to the exit route of SV1 after 4.20am will reasonably show it to be BK's elantra. Moo

But on the lack of footage - at the time the PCA was written -it's entirely possible that analysis of additional relevant footage out of Pullmn on residential/non-main roads was not finished, ditto for that rural area east of Moscow. Moo

ETA: I'm really sorry I wasn't clearer and appeared so blunt. It wasn't intended. I'm currently in analysis mode and didn't pay attention to your point. I agree it makes sense that he would try to avoid camera detection between Pullman and Moscow on the way in. So that is not really a big deal in terms of the P's position. I've been hyper focusing very recently on how the P might deal with the doubt that the D will try to generate from that situation by way of explanation and apology!

 

[Balthazar]

Random question so I replied to my own post because I literally couldn't figure out how to start a new conversation:

Ihttps://abcnews.go.com/US/idaho-murders-2-surviving-roommates-break-silence/story?id=94477961

I think earlier I assumed the photograph was taken at the house but by does anyone know if this is accurate or even who took this photograph? Bugging me TIA.

The photo is not at the house, it is at a nearby apartment complex. I never heard who took the photo.

 

[Balthazar]

snipped by me for focus:

But on the lack of footage - at the time the PCA was written -it's entirely possible that analysis of additional relevant footage out of Pullmn on residential/non-main roads was not finished, ditto for that rural area east of Moscow. Moo

I hope this is true and there was some way to make the linkage. I know cases develop over time, but it's one of those questions that has bothered me. I find myself wondering if Indian Hills Dr. or some place near there is somehow connected to what happened later. I hope that LE has a lot more detail on all of this.

 

[Boxer]

I hope this is true and there was some way to make the linkage. I know cases develop over time, but it's one of those questions that has bothered me. I find myself wondering if Indian Hills Dr. or some place near there is somehow connected to what happened later. I hope that LE has a lot more detail on all of this.

MOO Won't be critical.
There is enough evidence as is.

 

[jepop]

MOO Won't be critical.
There is enough evidence as is.

True, it only becomes critical if the D raises doubt re the dna - which seems Moo at this point a dead end for them. Would be icing on the cake though. And I truly think a lot of elantra elimination has gone on. The P would want something to fall back on, just incase. And aim for a well rounded case. With the massive resources assigned to the case,tip line and involvment of the PA from the get go, I feel like the investigation would have been extremely thorough and LE mindful of the tunnel vision trap. Moo

 

[schooling]

The lack of video evidence of the vehicle leaving Pullman and entering Moscow is from the PCA. The vehicle was seen in Pullman headed towards the highway to Moscow but not getting on the highway. The trail goes cold at that point. Next thing you know a white Elantra is seen in the 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow. (page 5 of PCA - last paragraph). White sedan spotted in Pullman (page 7 of PCA). If you read carefully, you will come to realize there is nothing that links the white sedan spotted in Pullman to the white Elantra that appears on the 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow. The 700 block of Indian Hills Dr in Moscow is NOT on the way to 1122 King Rd from Pullman - it is well past the destination of 1122 King Rd and on the other side of Moscow and, frustratingly, it appears there is no proof it is definitely the same vehicle as the one in Pullman. It is assumed to be the same vehicle due to timing but with so many white Elantras out there, these could be two different vehicles. Given what little evidence we have, there is no way to know, right now.

With all the traffic and security cameras out there it is really hard for me to believe that LE couldn't find at minimum:

1. Video showing the white sedan entered the highway from Pullman to Moscow or at least was on the highway at some point.
2. Video showing exactly where the white sedan from Pullman exited the highway into Moscow. Gas station security camera, traffic camera, anything...
3. Where the white Elantra was BEFORE it was at 700 Indian Hills Dr. We know for certain that it didn't magically teleport there. This is a fairly upscale neighborhood with condos, apartments and then large newish homes. I would expect lots of ring cameras and security cameras in the area. So where was it BEFORE it was at 700 Indian Hills Dr? Why was it there? Does that location have anything to do with what transpired?

These questions need to be answered at the trial, IMO.

I don't think it's as far as you think it is. I'm not a fan of this guy, in fact, this is the only video I've ever been able to sit through. But he does a fantastic job using the PCA's video evidence to plot out the Elantra's movements in real time. And it lines up perfectly with the leaked surveillance video.

If he can do this on a PC sitting at home I'm sure prosecutors will be able to show the jury the roads BK likely took.

Also, is the expectation that every single second of the Elantra's drive be captured? Or at every intersection? Prosecutors get convictions all of the time with 0 evidence on roads a person took. Just based on the fact that they have the opportunity and no alibi to account for their whereabouts.

 

[katydid23]

Plooo

Who would remember?
Everyone and anyone who realized they were driving around at the time of and in the area murders.

Yes, the day after the murders, when he learned about them, an innocent person would have thought "WOW, I was driving around that area in the middle of the night too---scary , too close to home."

Especially after he did go to that same street the next morning. Wouldn't he think 'wow, I was actually right there this morning---what a coincidence."

So I think the next day he would have been able to remember where he was driving the night before as he would have had a good reason to remember where he was once he heard the ghastly news about a quadruple killing of college students happening in the area he had been aimlessly wAndering around in at the same time span.


Especially after LE began asking for videos and/or pictures and witnesses who were in the are from 3 to 5 am. He knew he was one of those people in the general area, and that would spur his memory banks as well.