A&E The Killing Season Episodes 1 and 2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
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rbbm.

Thinking about the kind of person who would " stand out " without standing out, and whom people generally do not pay much attention to, is a homeless person.
They (he) could be out there all covered up in rags or coats and hat, bearded or face dirtied making identification difficult
and perhaps most importantly, be pushing/pulling a cart filled with stuff.
just speculating..

Locals would have a better sense if that would stand out, dotr. Hopefully some will share what they think of this possibility? This perp, his calls, stalking, command of communication, could he also have thief skills? Breaking in, making it easy to break in again, like stripping screws around door knobs, and the such? I wonder if those kinds of observations were made around or by those associated with the victims or investigation?

If he was ever caught for robbery, than his DNA may have been in the system, or prints, thus all the caution with disposal, perhaps? I guess the kind of things cartels would be good at too? Distribution of fear, pain more than brains, or um, other things, is there a wiff of that or could that just be tactical, distancing?

~

:welcome:​

Great questions, ghost story. Thank you for joining Websleuths and for asking.

I loved the show last night and wanted to give a couple of thoughts FWIW

I think LISK is able to get the girls to leave phones, divers, ID, etc. behind by promising money - lots of money - with the excuse that he is private, solitary, embarrassed, whatever. Remember that a promise of $1500 or $2000 is nothing to the killer if you have no plan to ever pay.

I think there are two killers that are unrelated. If I am remembering the timelines the GB4 went missing at about the same time (Fall of 2009 to spring 2010?) but the other dismembered bodies were much older. I need a date each victim went missing to verify this. I think the GB4 killer seems more neat, organized, while the other seems violent, sadistic, and unafraid of leaving the torsos in areas uncovered and in the open.

One other question I have is about the Dr. who called Shannan's mother Mari. How did he get her phone #? I think he has claimed that others in the neighborhood gave it to him and told him to call. How would anyone in that neighborhood have her mother's #? Did SG's boyfriend walk around giving this out? Has this been verified? He (the Dr) is an odd man...
 
I believe landscapers use burlap to protect certain types of evergreen trees during the winter but I'm not sure if this is common practice in Long Island. Weren't there rumors that the burlap could be traced back to Bissett Nursery? Has that ever been confirmed to be true or false? I don't think James Bissett had anything to do with these awful crimes but perhaps someone close to him who had access to the nursery is responsible or knows something. I don't know much related to his death other than it occurred the day after the 4th body was found in burlap. I've always though his death may have been a covered up homicide. Perhaps he had suspicions and was about to report on them and then someone killed him. Maybe he told someone, "If they find one more body in burlap I'm turning you in" and then that person killed him after the 4th body was found. Now this is all speculation but perhaps his death should have been more deeply investigated.
 
I am intrigued by all the speculation regarding the use of burlap (and who might be a user of burlap or have ready access to it). Not to be too glib, but in thinking about it this morning I was reminded that Martha Stewart is a huge user of burlap.
“JANUARY 8, 2014
Wrapping The Farm In Burlap!
I am a firm believer in covering boxwood shrubs and other plants that may suffer damage from winter's frigid winds and heavy snow with burlap. This is a practice I've followed for many years and it offers tremendous peace of mind, knowing that branches won't be spayed and misshapen, or even broken from wet snow and ice. The trick is to get this task done before the elements of winter can do any harm ... As usual, I commend my crew!
”
Source

Obviously I am not suggesting that Martha has any involvement but I do think that the suspect has some relationship to a gardening or nursery industry. Someone first mentioned the notion a few days ago and it has stuck with me ever since.


I KNEW IT. Martha always did look shady to me. ;)

I.b.Nora great point and I know you are not accusing Martha. LOL.
 
"People are raped, robbed, murdered every day around the world by being drugged by Devils Breath (Scopolamine).
The perp has no need to have the victim know them to get close or intimate with them either. It can be put in a drink, blown in the victims face, or just touched to their face for a fraction of a second. There is no more evil drug. Hence the name."

There it is again! I've seen Scopolamine mentioned before as a date-rape drug, probably because it makes people malleable. Isn't it also known as "truth serum"? Widely rumored to have been used by intelligence services during the Cold War?
I'm wondering two things though....why would it be necessary to use a date-rape drug on someone who's already there for the purpose of having (paid) sex? And, is there any evidence from the victims' autopsies of this being in their systems?

I've read a couple different things about Scopolamine being detectable or not. I've read that it gets completely metabolized in the body leaving it undetectable, and I've also read that it maybe detectable by specific test targeting it's presence in urine after it's been metabolized. I haven't seen anything written directly from a scientific source proving either is correct 100% though. If the later is true then without doing very specific tests to see if it is present, they would never know.

Yes, the drug has been used by lot's of different people, government groups, interrogators, etc over history.

The drug would be very useful to rapist/murderers who have picked up a prostitute. Once picked up and given the drug the perp could do whatever they wanted with the victim without them realizing something is wrong; ie take them where they don't feel safe, get them to do sex acts they wouldn't normally do, not follow security protocol like calling their security driver or bringing phones with them etc. It's also been written that the drug has been used in the past by doctors etc. for extreme pain management.
If used in very small dosages it will give a hallucination type effect and some people use it like an LSD or magic mushroom type high. But the danger is in the ability of the perp to take complete control of the drugged victim. It's said you can talk a Devil's Breath victim into walking into their own grave while they are buried alive.

http://www.cruiseshipdrugs.com/Drugs/Scopolamine.html

It's very important that people know this drug is here in North America. Especially more vulnerable people like prostitutes etc. If you don't know what to watch out for then it is very easy to become a victim.

And the video I posted earlier in this thread in case you didn't see it there:
[video=youtube;ToQ8PWYnu04]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToQ8PWYnu04[/video]
 
:welcome3:​

I believe landscapers use burlap to protect certain types of evergreen trees during the winter but I'm not sure if this is common practice in Long Island. Weren't there rumors that the burlap could be traced back to Bissett Nursery? Has that ever been confirmed to be true or false? I don't think James Bissett had anything to do with these awful crimes but perhaps someone close to him who had access to the nursery is responsible or knows something. I don't know much related to his death other than it occurred the day after the 4th body was found in burlap. I've always though his death may have been a covered up homicide. Perhaps he had suspicions and was about to report on them and then someone killed him. Maybe he told someone, "If they find one more body in burlap I'm turning you in" and then that person killed him after the 4th body was found. Now this is all speculation but perhaps his death should have been more deeply investigated.

"I think the toddler is key to at least his personality. He didn't hunt the toddler she was just collateral. The mother was dismantled yet the toddler suffered apparently no trauma and was wrapped in plastic. The intense control it would have taken to slaughter the mother yet mercifully kill the toddler shows the passion or relatabitly the toddler had to the killer. I believe the killers mother or female grown up was a prostitute to make ends meet and probably witnessed her beat on and nearly killed numerous times. The Queens thing also shows it more than likely occurred in queens somewhere about 35-50 years ago. Looking at child service records around that time of these circumstances may open some new leads."


Such rich observations, JGJM and Hellatubby, thank you both for joining WS and for participating. I hope you continue.
 
Exactly! If the thought is that she wandered out to the marsh and drown, there is no reason to claim a phone call (911 or otherwise) as "evidence". It sounds as if the FBI really needs to look into this. There doesnt need to be a profiler (since there are only what? 8 of them? but certainly an agent that can investigate - why not? Additionally, the key could be the Asian Male. They made mention of a foreign exchange student - Moe Zhang? Why cant they reach out to Mr. Zhang's family, get a DNA sample from them and run it against the Asian Male's DNA. It could be a FAMILIAL match - and then work backwards. ID'ing the asian male, is the key.
 
I'm late to this community but wondering why the burlap is such a mystery. It's used for sandbags during storms and high tides near houses in Oak beach I would imagine all the time.
 
When I was in my early 20's, I worked part-time at a local nursery in my hometown on the west coast. I encountered burlap sacks on a daily basis. All outdoor trees that came in off the trucks had their rootball wrapped in a burlap bag and tied securely with twine. Customers always asked me what it was and if it needed to be removed after purchase and before planting. We told them to slit the top of the burlap near the stalk or trunk and they could plant it as is cause the burlap eventually biodegrades after time. I also remember seeing the nursery ladies using burlap to wrap the roses on site before winter came. And I remember the statuary items also arrived from the trucks protected with burlap sacks, too.
 
I did a little searching with the help of spokeo and a few other tools and uncovered a few things that stood out as odd to me in reference to James Burke. After seeing the segment last night about the wikipedia edits and how someone from an IP address connected to Suffolk County PD was most likely responsible I gave more thought to Mr. Burke. I would like to privately email someone some of the phone #'s and email addresses and properties possibly owned by his family members. Who should I send the info to that I found? It may be nothing or lead to no where but its worth a shot. Thanks :)
 
Exactly! If the thought is that she wandered out to the marsh and drown, there is no reason to claim a phone call (911 or otherwise) as "evidence". It sounds as if the FBI really needs to look into this. There doesnt need to be a profiler (since there are only what? 8 of them? but certainly an agent that can investigate - why not? Additionally, the key could be the Asian Male. They made mention of a foreign exchange student - Moe Zhang? Why cant they reach out to Mr. Zhang's family, get a DNA sample from them and run it against the Asian Male's DNA. It could be a FAMILIAL match - and then work backwards. ID'ing the asian male, is the key.

I agree. I, too, had been wondering why DNA from Zhang's parents haven't been taken all this time. I know they must be out of the country, but still, there must be a way to get samples from them or family members. I also believe that Daniel Yuen could be a match to Asian male as well.

I was just on Backpage, doing some research, and I was very surprised to see a whole lot of Asian males in the New York area locations that are offering their "services." Next to none listed on Craigslist. I bet that LISK found the Asian male victim through the Backpage website.
 
Just saw subfield regarding all things burlap. Available at unlocked structure at entrance to Oak Beach to residents...I think killer summers there, or did as a kid.
 
I believe landscapers use burlap to protect certain types of evergreen trees during the winter but I'm not sure if this is common practice in Long Island. Weren't there rumors that the burlap could be traced back to Bissett Nursery? Has that ever been confirmed to be true or false? I don't think James Bissett had anything to do with these awful crimes but perhaps someone close to him who had access to the nursery is responsible or knows something. I don't know much related to his death other than it occurred the day after the 4th body was found in burlap. I've always though his death may have been a covered up homicide. Perhaps he had suspicions and was about to report on them and then someone killed him. Maybe he told someone, "If they find one more body in burlap I'm turning you in" and then that person killed him after the 4th body was found. Now this is all speculation but perhaps his death should have been more deeply investigated.

Anyone know why James Bisset's fellow high-ranking executive colleague at the Long Island Aquarium and Exhibition Center committed suicide as well in 2013?

Second Tragic Suicide of Aquarium Exec Reported
 
I also see on Backpage, there are a few posts from men looking for escorts–one male coming in from out of town to NYC over Thanksgiving and looking for a female to hook up with. This got me thinking about the victims and their listings on Backpage and Craigslist. Due to the passage of time, I know it's impossible to go back and look, but does anyone know what the victims advertised in their listings? Their usage of keywords may have a common theme with each other that might help create a profile of the killer's targeting of females and/or sexual interests.
 
I wonder why as well... I'm sure I'm not the first to pose this question, but what if he was a regular customer for many of these girls? Would that not build some level of trust and possibly they let their guard down?

I am thinking the same, and offering a lot of money to the girls (Amber Lynn Costello receiving that call and the guy was offering $1500). So possibly a combination of the two. Getting to know the girls and then offering a larger amount than normal to guarantee they'll meet up with him. Maybe for the whole night that way he has more time to cover his tracks before people close to the girls start to suspect anything.
 
I did a little searching with the help of spokeo and a few other tools and uncovered a few things that stood out as odd to me in reference to James Burke. After seeing the segment last night about the wikipedia edits and how someone from an IP address connected to Suffolk County PD was most likely responsible I gave more thought to Mr. Burke. I would like to privately email someone some of the phone #'s and email addresses and properties possibly owned by his family members. Who should I send the info to that I found? It may be nothing or lead to no where but its worth a shot. Thanks :)

Hi ronijeni,

If you feel you have information that may be pertinent to the case please read the following:

Anyone with a tip should contact the Suffolk County PD, at one of the numbers listed here.

Or, contact the FBI, and submit a tip form or call a field office

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?321425-Reporting-tips
 
A few comments to things I've read over the last several pages:

- burlap is very common in cold climates, it protects trees and plants from winter cold. Not just evergreens, many of which are fine without burlap, actually.

- a question about the material burlap was made from - if it was found disintegrating it's made from jute, or the material you think of when you think of burlap.

- I agree that the toddler was just collateral to the SK. IMO the mom was likely a prostitute like all the others, she just brought a toddler along with her.
 
Great show! I have been following this case for a while now.

Maybe useful article for burlap sack discussion from 2012: http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/gq-comment-long-island-serial-killer


Long Islander Brendan Murphy (pictured above), 34, was on holiday in the Virgin Islands with his girlfriend last December when he heard police had discovered a slew of bodies [...] Murphy's father had been a homicide prosecutor for the Suffolk County district attorney's office and now worked as a criminal defence lawyer for one of the biggest law firms on the island.When he returned home, Murphy decided to visit the locations where the bodies had been found. He trawled the internet for more information and stumbled upon Websleuths - an online community devoted to true crime. Websleuths was born 15 years ago, following the JonBenét Ramsey murder - the disturbing and still-unsolved case of the six-year-old pageant star found dead in the basement of her parents' Colorado home. Websleuths' owner Tricia Griffith describes the site as a "big spitballing session" and says police, retired detectives, lawyers and private inves*tigators pitch in to the discussions as well.
I meet Murphy in nearby Gilgo Beach late one afternoon in May and we stand looking out over the bay. He tells me he was a "lurker" on the site initially; he'd never contributed to an online forum before but he was surprised at the level of intelligent discussion about the investigation into the murders. "They seemed really on top of it; people were making valid points," he says.
Unlike many of the contrib*utors, though, Murphy actually lived on Long Island and knew the area where the bodies had been dumped. His grandfather had built more than 80 homes there and Murphy had spent his youth building docks for him. He knows the geography and ecology of the area intimately.
Someone on the Websleuths forum wanted to know who patrolled the barrier island aside from the police. The state's Department of Environmental Conservation, Murphy told them; they drive round in white trucks and fine residents if they build anything too close to the water. Then there were the parks police, state police and county police.
Another contributor wanted to know what burlap was used for; maybe the murderer worked with the sacking he'd used to wrap four of his victims. On Websleuths, people speculated it could have been a clammer or fisherman, but Murphy corrected them: around here it was used more to make sand*bags for erosion control projects. This also followed on from his theory that the Long Island serial killer was a local. In fact, he even had his eye on a potential suspect - someone who police, apparently, had ruled out.
Perhaps it was because his father was a lawyer, but Murphy, who has a background in programming and now works in IT for a financial firm, was tenacious in his research - and he wasn't content with joining the other amateur sleuths online throwing around conjecture. He knew that if he simply googled the name of the suspect, it would just throw up pages referring to his recent questioning by police, but if he altered the date parameters, he could find out if this person had form. "I discovered he'd been in trouble with the law before," Murphy says. "He had a record for gross negligence and he'd been in alcohol rehab. I found the index numbers of the court cases and punched them into the Nassau County court website to get the details."
He knew having previous form didn't mean this person was guilty of the Long Island murders, but Murphy was keen to at least add something of substance to the discussions online. He posted the court transcripts on the forum and recalls everyone saying, "Great find; how did you get this?" "The TV news networks weren't digging through the public records like I was," Murphy says. "And I was just some guy sitting on the internet."
In addition, Murphy had been using a tool to assist in his sleuthing that he was keeping quiet from the virtual community. A few years before, he had been looking for a car for his girl*friend when he came across an ad for a decommissioned Drug Enforcement Administration surveillance van on Craigslist. The DEA van was a 1989 Ford Econoline with only 30,000 miles on the clock. It was bullet-proof, naturally, had two fuel tanks, a separate propane tank that fuelled a heater and an air condi*tioner that ran on dry ice pellets. But the clincher, as far as Murphy was con*cerned, was an on-board periscope.
From the outside it looks like a normal van but Murphy says if you tap on the side you can tell it's far from normal. "It's amazing," he says. "It has a well of six car batteries that runs everything so you can power it up without the ignition. You could sit there for hours being fired on by the bad guys and you'd be OK." The periscope, cranked by hand, pokes out the top of the air vent on the van's roof so as to be inconspicu*ous. Murphy and his girlfriend call their vehicle the Land Sub.

Also, does anyone remember this user posting on here? The level of knowledge is both helpful as well as frightening. And he bought a sound proof van? Frightening, as well. Hopefully this is looked into later on in an episode of the show.
 
May I ask a question? This might be in the wrong place...I'm brand new here. The question has to do with The Killing Season murders. I grew up working with my father in an upholstery shop. He bought burlap by huge rolls. Do you know if the burlap the bodies were buried in were actually "burlap sacks", or was it just "burlap"? They always said "wrapped in burlap". This was interesting to me, because burlap is used on every single piece furniture that is either reupholstered or rebuilt. An upholsterer, or someone who has access to supplies at a furniture company...even a large furniture company in the area around Queens, or elsewhere? The killer(s) could have taken it from their workplace, if it's burlap & not burlap sacks.
Thanks!
docrocker

I was curious about the burlap as well and saw that another user says they were wrapped in burlap. I was hoping it was burlap sacks that possibly had a logo or print on it that could be identified and traced to businesses. I never knew upholstery shops used lots of burlap. How noticeable would missing burlap be in an upholstery shop? I feel like I'd notice a guy coming into a fabric store and purchasing a lot of one material if I worked at a fabric store, and it'd be less noticeable for a person to take from their work place that deals in a large amount of a certain material. At least for a while it could go unnoticed.
 
I am new here and thought about how SG and JB went to CVS and how or why CPH is involved maybe he wrote them a prescription for drugs and they went to fill it? Was it open 24hrs?
 
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