A&E The Killing Season Episodes 1 and 2

[msvick66]

I think there are some observations about this case that do point to at least one person. If this person has an accomplice to account for the "they" are trying to kill me spoken by Shannan is still a mystery.

1. How many serial killers were only caught when a victim survived an attempt to kill them? This has happened countless times. Ted Bundy, Robert Hansen (who fooled police when they talked to him), Gary Ridgway (who fooled police when they talked to him and passed a polygraph), the Bike Path rapist/murderer (who fooled police when they talked to him), Kendall Francoise, etc..

2. The 2 women killed after Shannan but found with the G4 were told or convinced not to bring a cell phone which was out of character. They were also apparently picked up, not driven or accompanied. The implications of this are obvious when you look at what happened with Shannan. She had a driver and a phone, the two victims after the incident with Shannan were told not to bring a phone nor a driver.

3. If the police chief was involved in parties with prostitutes or trafficking them and/or drugs, a party means more than one. You have to have guests. Perhaps the most obvious person of interest regarding Shannan's disappearance and death participated and knows about the parties and those who attend them. You do not want someone who has dirt on you to be arrested and possibly talk. That doesn't mean these higher ups are involved in the murders, but that doesn't matter if the suspect knows devastatingly damaging information and would likely trade it for leniency.

4. If they won't release the 911 call, one must wonder if the person Shannan was afraid of is named. This shouldn't cause a problem unless you look at #3.



Just a few thoughts.

 

[CARIIS]

Does anyone (I don't have cable) know how to watch it not directly on AE?

 

[jenves]

Does anyone (I don't have cable) know how to watch it not directly on AE?

You can go to A&E's website and stream it. I had issues watching it that way, but I live pretty far out from civilization and good internet signals. HTH

 

[FindHG]

I think there are some observations about this case that do point to at least one person. If this person has an accomplice to account for the "they" are trying to kill me spoken by Shannan is still a mystery.

1. How many serial killers were only caught when a victim survived an attempt to kill them? This has happened countless times. Ted Bundy, Robert Hansen (who fooled police when they talked to him), Gary Ridgway (who fooled police when they talked to him and passed a polygraph), the Bike Path rapist/murderer (who fooled police when they talked to him), Kendall Francoise, etc..

2. The 2 women killed after Shannan but found with the G4 were told or convinced not to bring a cell phone which was out of character. They were also apparently picked up, not driven or accompanied. The implications of this are obvious when you look at what happened with Shannan. She had a driver and a phone, the two victims after the incident with Shannan were told not to bring a phone nor a driver.

3. If the police chief was involved in parties with prostitutes or trafficking them and/or drugs, a party means more than one. You have to have guests. Perhaps the most obvious person of interest regarding Shannan's disappearance and death participated and knows about the parties and those who attend them. You do not want someone who has dirt on you to be arrested and possibly talk. That doesn't mean these higher ups are involved in the murders, but that doesn't matter if the suspect knows devastatingly damaging information and would likely trade it for leniency.

4. If they won't release the 911 call, one must wonder if the person Shannan was afraid of is named. This shouldn't cause a problem unless you look at #3.



Just a few thoughts.

Well considered thoughts, thank you msvick66. The thing that stands out most about the LISK case, is the appearance of information being withheld or covered up, then this sense one gets of an intense need to bury the story, locally, over time. There may be an inherit culture that surrounds some instances of wealth to bury any controversy that would make them look bad, thus perhaps pressure on local journalism to not dwell on it and belittle those who do. The murderer/s of these women would have been aware of this cultural tendency in the area and played it well as they continued to kill endlessly, it seems.

I imagine the "The Killing Season", besides not being great for property values, makes for uncomfortable dinner conversation around the bespoke tables in the New York metro area that would not last long. Most print papers thrive on real estate listing, to a large extent. It would take a few sneers in the right places for the silencing effect to pervade. People who like to be seen putting their money where their mouths have been, for appearances? Just imagine how talk of butchered hookers dotting their landscape doesn't go over well at a charity ball empowering women? Distancing is most of what you can expect from the establishment press in the New York metro area would be my guess, not compassion, let alone the interest that would threaten their sense of themselves as magnanimous arbiters or morality. It must not touch them, the savage murders of these women, dotting their beaches. The flesh trade in this area is huge and not at all secret, after all.

There always an inherit culture to cover up and obfuscate if illicit cash flow is involved, obviously. Don't want to give the world a bad impression, after all, or bring down property values. Most of all though, the impression of doing good for the world and women in particular, this little segment of society thrives on, don't want to be seen as touched by anything tawdry. The serial killers in Long Island knew exactly what they could get away with and all have for a long long time, now. This kind of reaction is a shameful blight on their legacy, the civic minded wealthy folks in Long Island and Manhattan who turn away from it. It hits them deep and oh so uncomfortably in their pockets, pews, and parties. The fear they share on their bandwagon is not about becoming a victim of a serial killer. They don't want their country kitchen style burlap decorated apple carts tipped. Can't botox this one away folks. It's time to pay attention, as the attention may make things worse, with more aspiring serial killers who may tick to just how easy it is to get away with murdering women on the margins of Long Island. My observations, alone.

You can go to A&E's website and stream it. I had issues watching it that way, but I live pretty far out from civilization and good internet signals. HTH

Thank you for your interest. There's a link in the banner at the top of this page where you can watch both episodes for free without registering until Nov 27th.

 

[Uah]

Hello all! I am fairly new to this sight and am figuring it out as well! I love it! I'm especially drawn to cold case & missing persons and you're perspective thoughts are fascinating. I look at things from unique angles and in this particular case, I would focus on the location of the remains. Why this beach? Why is this person so comfortable with this area, that they can continuously dump their victims here with ease? As the German profiler said, it's most likely from his childhood. He's been doing this off the radar so it's obvious he knows when commute is at it's highs and lows. He's safe watching the bodies lay motionless as he calls the victims families. In my mind, you find that connection, you find LISK. This key piece of information will lead you right to them. thoughts?

Uah

 

[Tricia]

Don't forget tonight at 8 PM Eastern Josh and Rachel will join me on Websleuths Radio. Special guests Todd Matthews from NAMUS and profiler Peter Brendt.
CLICK HERE to listen live tonight at 8 pm Eastern.
Please post any questions (on this thread) you have for our guests and I will do my best to ask them for you tonight.

 

[Uah]

Don't forget tonight at 8 PM Eastern Josh and Rachel will join me on Websleuths Radio. Special guests Todd Matthews from NAMUS and profiler Peter Brendt.
CLICK HERE to listen live tonight at 8 pm Eastern.
Please post any questions (on this thread) you have for our guests and I will do my best to ask them for you tonight.

Hello! My question would be for both. When profiling, the details go from broad to specific, and there are a lot of similarities between the victims, but what tactics do you use to determine if it's coincidence, or if these are specifics that the killer is targeting. To me, it's extremely important because this will determine whether or not it's one person. Thanx so much! (I hope it makes sense haha p.s. I love this site!!!)

Uah

 

[Bravo]

A&E is rerunning it now

 

[Lanesmommy]

I loved the show last night and wanted to give a couple of thoughts FWIW

I think LISK is able to get the girls to leave phones, divers, ID, etc. behind by promising money - lots of money - with the excuse that he is private, solitary, embarrassed, whatever. Remember that a promise of $1500 or $2000 is nothing to the killer if you have no plan to ever pay.

I think there are two killers that are unrelated. If I am remembering the timelines the GB4 went missing at about the same time (Fall of 2009 to spring 2010?) but the other dismembered bodies were much older. I need a date each victim went missing to verify this. I think the GB4 killer seems more neat, organized, while the other seems violent, sadistic, and unafraid of leaving the torsos in areas uncovered and in the open.

One other question I have is about the Dr. who called Shannan's mother Mari. How did he get her phone #? I think he has claimed that others in the neighborhood gave it to him and told him to call. How would anyone in that neighborhood have her mother's #? Did SG's boyfriend walk around giving this out? Has this been verified? He (the Dr) is an odd man...

BBM


I agree with the promise of big money theory. He probably offered a higher amount than they are used to in order to entice and lure them out of their comfort zones, i.e. no phones, drivers, and going on an outcall. This also may have led them to believe he was the "important person" that i believe he said he was to the victims. Something like "i'm a high ranking official, or law enforcement, etc and you cannot bring your phone or tell anyone where you are going but I will compensate you greatly". Because if you are the killer and you know the women are going to die, then you could offer a million bucks because you know you'll never have to pay it.

The GB4 went missing between 2007-2010. Maureen was the first of the GB4 in July of 2007, then Melissa in July 2009, Megan was June 2010 and Amber was just 3 months later in the first days of Sept 2010... Hope that helps!

Also, Jessica Taylor went missing in July of 2003, around the same week as Maureen and Melissa. I would be willing to guess that the killer vacations in Long Island at a rented or owned summer home. He possibly takes his vacation time around the 4th of July and I don't believe it coincidence that these women were killed when they were.

All IMO of course!

 

[OnTheCase27]

I think there are some observations about this case that do point to at least one person. If this person has an accomplice to account for the "they" are trying to kill me spoken by Shannan is still a mystery.

1. How many serial killers were only caught when a victim survived an attempt to kill them? This has happened countless times. Ted Bundy, Robert Hansen (who fooled police when they talked to him), Gary Ridgway (who fooled police when they talked to him and passed a polygraph), the Bike Path rapist/murderer (who fooled police when they talked to him), Kendall Francoise, etc..

2. The 2 women killed after Shannan but found with the G4 were told or convinced not to bring a cell phone which was out of character. They were also apparently picked up, not driven or accompanied. The implications of this are obvious when you look at what happened with Shannan. She had a driver and a phone, the two victims after the incident with Shannan were told not to bring a phone nor a driver.

3. If the police chief was involved in parties with prostitutes or trafficking them and/or drugs, a party means more than one. You have to have guests. Perhaps the most obvious person of interest regarding Shannan's disappearance and death participated and knows about the parties and those who attend them. You do not want someone who has dirt on you to be arrested and possibly talk. That doesn't mean these higher ups are involved in the murders, but that doesn't matter if the suspect knows devastatingly damaging information and would likely trade it for leniency.

4. If they won't release the 911 call, one must wonder if the person Shannan was afraid of is named. This shouldn't cause a problem unless you look at #3.



Just a few thoughts.

If you look at your second point about the GB4 and Shannon it suggests two killers. While both of the women after Shannon didn't have drivers, neither did the two before her. So I doesn't make sense that the killer suddenly allows a potential victim to be accompanied breaking his previous MO and then reverting back to the original MO.

 

[ianthe]

Lemme know if I'm breaking any rules with this post, but I have nothing to say yet other than how cool is it that they used Bauhaus for the opening song?

 

[rickyperez]

BBM


I agree with the promise of big money theory. He probably offered a higher amount than they are used to in order to entice and lure them out of their comfort zones, i.e. no phones, drivers, and going on an outcall. This also may have led them to believe he was the "important person" that i believe he said he was to the victims. Something like "i'm a high ranking official, or law enforcement, etc and you cannot bring your phone or tell anyone where you are going but I will compensate you greatly". Because if you are the killer and you know the women are going to die, then you could offer a million bucks because you know you'll never have to pay it.

The GB4 went missing between 2007-2010. Maureen was the first of the GB4 in July of 2007, then Melissa in July 2009, Megan was June 2010 and Amber was just 3 months later in the first days of Sept 2010... Hope that helps!

Also, Jessica Taylor went missing in July of 2003, around the same week as Maureen and Melissa. I would be willing to guess that the killer vacations in Long Island at a rented or owned summer home. He possibly takes his vacation time around the 4th of July and I don't believe it coincidence that these women were killed when they were.

All IMO of course!

Coincidentally, I posted a similar outlook on another thread in response to another post....

I don't necessarily know if I agree with the theory that the women simply trusted this particular client (LISK) or even knew him from prior occasions. The women may have told others that they would only go out without taking their phones, only if they knew the client, but in the end, money talks. These women were all motivated by money; why isn't it possible that LISK simply stated to each girl that part of the deal was for the them to leave their phones at home in exchange for a large sum of money (I keep hearing $1500). Because it was such a large amount and because the women may have become complacent enough, the girls may have agreed; its a matter of risk vs. reward and for them, $1500 may have been enough reward to outweigh the risk.

I would imagine the police researched each girl's cell phone call history and would have looked into the last calls each girl received. Furthermore, if that particular number had called before (although LISK could have used different numbers), it would have made it easier (maybe) to figure out who LISK is. I guess we can all assume and of course it would make the most sense, since nothing ever came of the girl's call history, that LISK used one of those burner phones. Nevertheless, I just don't think LISK would have risked meeting with each girl multiple times prior to their murders; it seems that would have left LISK much more out in the open and vulnerable for someone to uncover his identity at a later date. Ultimately, I think LISK selects his women based on their demographic and physical characteristics, in particular young, petite women who work in the sex business because obviously, women working in the sex business can be lured in with money, and kills when he feels the moment is right and safe enough for him to do so and get away with it. I do wonder however if LISK has met up with women on backpage or some other escort site but did not kill them for whatever reason, leaving the possibility that other sex workers have encountered LISK and did not even know it.

 

[JenniferTx]

Josh just said "Websleuths is the most credible forum" YES!!!!

Thank you Websleuths members for all you help

And I had my 15 seconds of fame they just showed me and the radio show and that's it. LOL

Well I would have to say that websleuths is certainly the most credible forum without any doubt. Also I don't think Tricia is done with her 15 minutes of fame. I have a feeling LISK will be caught soon because with this new show airing it will bring more awareness to the general public.

 

[Bravo]

Great job Josh and Rachel. And all involved. Looking forward to further shows.

 

[Tricia]

Hello! My question would be for both. When profiling, the details go from broad to specific, and there are a lot of similarities between the victims, but what tactics do you use to determine if it's coincidence, or if these are specifics that the killer is targeting. To me, it's extremely important because this will determine whether or not it's one person. Thanx so much! (I hope it makes sense haha p.s. I love this site!!!)

Uah

Thanks Utah, I will pass this along to Josh and Rachel. Welcome by the way. Love you name. That's my home state.

 

[coffeeandacig]

I don't see it. Face shape is different as is the nose. But a side view would definitely be helpful

I superimposed the pictures of Jane Doe #6 and Colleen Perris.

What struck me is that Colleen Perris' Namus picture has signs of bruising on the ridge of her nose, and a lighter area near the break which may have been covered by a bandage.
She also appears to have a very similar nose tip, nose length, hair line and jaw line. I also believe her bottom lip is definately smaller than the top.

 

[Emre E]

I superimposed the pictures of Jane Doe #6 and Colleen Perris.

What struck me is that Colleen Perris' Namus picture has signs of bruising on the ridge of her nose, and a lighter area near the break which may have been covered by a bandage.
She also appears to have a very similar nose tip, nose length, hair line and jaw line. I also believe her bottom lip is definately smaller than the top.

You're doing great job coffeeandacig and I think you're truly onto something.

Here's a detail about JD6.. Her torso was found quite fresh and there is an intact tattoo on her body. But the police chose not to disclose it to the public.

Det. Fitzpatrick is still withholding the image of a tattoo located on the female victim for verification purposes
http://www.doenetwork.org/media/news18.html

I speculated a lot as to why police chose such an unproductive way, but now with your suggestion it's time to look forward.

Colleen has several tattoos the key is the Butterfly on her back.. Which could be easily verified, without going down the DNA path.

I'm on your team. Anytime you need more information & support just let me know.

 

[eyesonly]

GB4 victims 2, 3 & 4 were put there during daylight hours. It wasn't in the pitch black of night.
The male victim who might be the missing exchange student. They know his name, do reverse dna test on the parents against the John Doe.

 

[bessie]

I superimposed the pictures of Jane Doe #6 and Colleen Perris.

What struck me is that Colleen Perris' Namus picture has signs of bruising on the ridge of her nose, and a lighter area near the break which may have been covered by a bandage.
She also appears to have a very similar nose tip, nose length, hair line and jaw line. I also believe her bottom lip is definately smaller than the top.

Nice work, coffee. It's good to see Emre E back, too. Keep up the good work.

 

[ps149]

GB4 victims 2, 3 & 4 were put there during daylight hours. It wasn't in the pitch black of night

And you are certain of this information how???