A month later... where is Lisa? What is your opinion?

[Sparklin]

What I mean is that if it was an ACCIDENTAL death, there is no way in the world her "neighbor" is going to help her dispose of a body. I mean I can understand if DB is freaking out etc, but who in the world would involve themselves in something like that. No way. A dead baby would be a huge freak out zone for most people and a situation in which they would be on the phone to the police. Even if DB was crying and begging for help the average person would come to their senses.

Yes there is a .000000001% possibility that I could be wrong on that. There is also a .00000000000001% possibility that aliens abducted Lisa, but no way.

I don't believe the death was premeditated. If it was I would think that the couple would have planted some other form of "evidence" to direct the police somewhere, etc a shoe print somewhere in the house.

I also do not believe that DB could fake her tears as she had from the beginning if it was a premeditated act.


My options are Dad did something after DB had gone to sleep and she's truly in the dark.

DB left the door open and someone abducted the baby.


DB over medicated the baby and JI found out when he came home. And they buried the baby because she was drunk and they didn't want to lose the other kids.

IOW she had to know full well she screwed up, not just the baby didn't wake up but that she gave the baby nyquil or something and ODed the baby.


Because DB changed when she saw the baby last from 10:30 pm to 6:30 pm I think she is lying to cover the fact that she knows there is a time of death if they find the baby and if she does say she saw the baby she places her after the TOD she's liable.

So she says she went straight to bed which I find complete and total BS. So she puts the older son to bed and takes the younger one in with her and does not even PEEK at Lisa? I don't think so.

Also if you know that you buried the baby in the woods and the cops are saying they found the body and burned clothing, you know they are lying to you.

But with sooo little time. Jeremy didn't leave his work until 3:30 ish. Why wouldn't (in any of those scenarios) Deb alone: turn off all the lights, leave door unlocked (accidently), Jeremy comes in, goes to bed..if he checks on the baby and wakes her, she deals with it immediately, otherwise, morning.
Same goes with Jeremy. Why freak out at 4 a.m. Why not say he was exhausted, got home and went right to bed???

 

[iamnotagolem]

The only other person I can see aiding DB in covering up the death of a child is her father IF (big IF) he was involved in her mother's death and DB had to help him cover it up. But it's still a hard theory to sell. I'm not on board with it. haha

 

[Ora Macc]

A baby's missing-still missing one month after she disappeared. I voted the mom is responsible......not sure if there was an accidental killing or a murder. I sadly think the baby was put into the river to wash away forever.

I hope she's found.

 

[Chewy]

But with sooo little time. Jeremy didn't leave his work until 3:30 ish. Why wouldn't (in any of those scenarios) Deb alone: turn off all the lights, leave door unlocked (accidently), Jeremy comes in, goes to bed..if he checks on the baby and wakes her, she deals with it immediately, otherwise, morning.
Same goes with Jeremy. Why freak out at 4 a.m. Why not say he was exhausted, got home and went right to bed???

I could see this too, in this case though, who would have abducted the baby? It would need to be someone nearby who has seem or knew of Lisa Irwin. It's too risky otherwise, who would have risked going into the house?

What are the odds that DB would be drunk that night, and no children would have heard or seen the abductor?

It could have happened, it has happened, but it does seem to be very odd.


Gil Abeyta has an interesting profile of an abductor here

http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...te-potential-suspect-profile-submitted-to-fbi

One more thing to think about. If DB's phones were "not working" the night this happened, it may have given her the PAUSE she needed not to immediately call the police because something happened to Lisa.

Ex it's late at night and something is wrong and she needs to contact her husband or 911, she's thinking she needs to go to her neighbor's house and wake them up to tell them she accidentally killed Lisa? The shame in needing to do that could have caused her to stop and consider doing something else.

In addition, DB's mother (also named Lisa) died when she was a teenager and her brother is the one that found the body, she may not have wanted her sons to repeat this pattern and chose to make Lisa be abducted rather than dead.

 

[Kat]

Over a month now.

IMHO Lisa is deceased.

This is going to become one of the hundreds of cold cases that we have here on this website and one of the many thousands that have happened over the years.

As long as everyone keeps their mouth shut on any info and as long as no one stumbles across Lisa then it's pretty much over and done.

JMHO.

 

[snoofer]

IMO there are similarities to the Tori Stafford Kidnapping ie LE picks up someone early on...on unrelated charges and keeps them in custody...if you remember in Tori Stafford case the girl charged was picked up early on..for stated unrelated charges...

Recalls in that case that the mother took alot of flack (accusations) that turned out to be false...also..the other child was not removed from the home...assumably because LE knew that mom and home were safe place.

Very similar to this case. The other child has not been removed..that is very telling. Regardless of custody cases going on...LE and SS did not remove the other children. That signals to me no evidence to support someone in the home did the crime.

I think that part of the police tactics are to create disinformation and drama to suss some people out..and that what we see in the news is not necessarily what is going on behind scenes. Personally I do not think parents had anything to do with this disappearance and it is disheartening to think that parents go through this grilling by the public. We all remember what Tori Stafford's mother was put through and the devastating conclusion that she had to suffer through.

 

[mlc9852]

IMO there are similarities to the Tori Stafford Kidnapping ie LE picks up someone early on...on unrelated charges and keeps them in custody...if you remember in Tori Stafford case the girl charged was picked up early on..for stated unrelated charges...

Recalls in that case that the mother took alot of flack (accusations) that turned out to be false...also..the other child was not removed from the home...assumably because LE knew that mom and home were safe place.

Very similar to this case. The other child has not been removed..that is very telling. Regardless of custody cases going on...LE and SS did not remove the other children. That signals to me no evidence to support someone in the home did the crime.

I think that part of the police tactics are to create disinformation and drama to suss some people out..and that what we see in the news is not necessarily what is going on behind scenes. Personally I do not think parents had anything to do with this disappearance and it is disheartening to think that parents go through this grilling by the public. We all remember what Tori Stafford's mother was put through and the devastating conclusion that she had to suffer through.

What about the cadaver dog hit? I don't trust JI or DB. Not sure what they did, but they know more than they are saying, IMHO.

 

[Minette]

I am not on the fence, I am on the teeter totter! One day I am absolutely convinced that DB did something and someone in her family helped her (although I can't imagine helping a family member cover up the death of a baby, no matter what) and then I am absolutely convinced that someone in the Tanko/Dane/MW crowd had something to do with it and took advantage of an incapacitated mother to get a baby for nefarious purposes (e.g., sell for cash or drugs.) Other days I entertain the theory that the husband of the drinking buddy was involved, or a different family member, or an ex of either DB or JI. I just don't have enough solid information to come down firmly on the side of one theory or another. I fell off the fence after the cadaver dog hit, but then all the stuff with MW/Dane/Tanko and the FBI questioning the WS poster's friend in another state about her baby surfaced and that's when I got on the teeter totter. I just don't know.

I hope with all my heart that Lisa is alive somewhere, but I'm not really sure I believe she is. The question in my mind is who did whatever was done to/with her.

 

[Camille]

Here's what I think. I think probability of DB doing this alone is very low, due to the circumstances we know. That's probably why you have people dragging JI into this as far as the poll goes, because people realize that they think DB is involved, but you've got to get someone to help her to support that theory, despite the fact that there is 0 evidence (moreso than DB) that JI knows anything or covered anything up. I also think if the parents are involved, this is one amazing cover up. Think about it, a whole lot of people would had of have gone along with this, DB, JI, her kids, drinking buddy, maybe the neighbor, etc. The more people you involve, the more likely there is going to be a crack somewhere.

I think that if the mother killed the baby in some manner they would have already found the body. She didn't have a lot of time to get rid of it and her mobility is limited. I certainly don't see her hopping over any fence. LOL If she did do it she did have help.


On the other hand if she didn't do it I have no idea what could have happened. There's just not enough reliable info out there for me to figure anything out. We really don't even know what the parents are doing or aren't doing unless they tell us via an interview and they aren't saying much.

 

[sometimer]

I am certainly on the fence about this. Today i am swaying toward her being kidnapped by someone who was angry or wanted to threaten the parents. They may owe big money to some nasty people. They may know something that could get them all killed. It does seem far fetched, but so does the alternative.
DB had been drinking a lot. We have witnesses to that. How could she hold it together enough to pull this off?
JI could maybe have pulled it off without her knowing if she was passed out, but I don't think he would harm his daughter. That would involve other people. Maybe his family members. I think they would have come forward by now. Unless it has just snowballed to the point that they are afraid to.

 

[KsStormy]

Unfortunately, I think that Baby Lisa has been deceased since the night she “disappeared” and I think LE knows that. I believe DB accidently killed Baby Lisa in a drunken stupor/blackout and is now trying to cover her tracks with the assistance of JI.

Has it been stated what kind of anxiety medication she takes and how much? I read that she takes it every morning, so I doubt it’s Xanax or something similar, those types of meds aren’t usually taken on a daily basis unless the person has extreme anxiety. I’m guess it’s something more along the lines of Buspar, which you do have to take on a regular basis to keep it in your system. The reason I ask this is because it has been mentioned several times that DB’s state of intoxication could’ve been due to her drinking while taking an anti-anxiety medication but the effects are very dependant on what type of medication it is. Alcohol and Xanax can definitely cause extreme intoxication and blackouts. On the other hand, drinking while on a med like Buspar doesn’t really have much of an effect. I can speak from personal experience, I’ve taken both types of these meds and have drank on both. I became extremely intoxicated in a short time when I was on Xanax, blacked out and couldn’t remember anything to next day. With Buspar, I didn’t experience anything out of the ordinary.

I agree. And it was her stating that she was drinking & on meds that was the HUGE red flag for me .Just listen to a few drug commercials listing all the possible side affects... who knows how any individual react to these drugs? There had to be a reason she was on the meds in the first place...and from my own brief experience with post-partum depression it would be a very logical guess that she is guilty of either accidentally or in a fit of rage, harmed Lisa. PPD can get VERY serious, sometimes moves into psychosis. However (sorry thinking out loud here) she was able to get it under control pretty quick, so she can't use that as a possible defense. I found the lack or remorse or emotion from both parents truly disturbing in the Fox interview. Deborah, at the VERY least, is 100% guilty of neglect, by her own admission of not checking the baby, not remembering anything, due to her self-indulgence.Especially a SICK baby, as was stated. I wonder what the neighbor's story is, meaning, did anyone else enter the house, maybe to use the bathroom? Ever hear the baby? See mom check her in the ( how many? ) hours they were partying? The way she got defensive "Oh I'm sure they will!' when told there are those that may take issue w/ her drinking w/ the kids there. A normal mother would at least feel guilty for that, considering hey! She got drunk & "lost" the baby!
Today after watching interviews for the billionth time, I am convinced DB is lying, in whatever capacity. Watch her sniff & twitch her nose when she lies about drinking & how she said "but that has nothing to do with ... her..." & micro expressions as well. Looks like someone coached them to not use their hands,the way they both sat with them grasped tightly.

 

[Rosemarie]

I think that if the mother killed the baby in some manner they would have already found the body. She didn't have a lot of time to get rid of it and her mobility is limited. I certainly don't see her hopping over any fence. LOL If she did do it she did have help.


On the other hand if she didn't do it I have no idea what could have happened. There's just not enough reliable info out there for me to figure anything out. We really don't even know what the parents are doing or aren't doing unless they tell us via an interview and they aren't saying much.

Sorry Camille, that isn't true unfortunately. There are hundreds of missing children, presumed dead and still missing.

 

[Rosemarie]

I am not on the fence, I am on the teeter totter! One day I am absolutely convinced that DB did something and someone in her family helped her (although I can't imagine helping a family member cover up the death of a baby, no matter what) and then I am absolutely convinced that someone in the Tanko/Dane/MW crowd had something to do with it and took advantage of an incapacitated mother to get a baby for nefarious purposes (e.g., sell for cash or drugs.) Other days I entertain the theory that the husband of the drinking buddy was involved, or a different family member, or an ex of either DB or JI. I just don't have enough solid information to come down firmly on the side of one theory or another. I fell off the fence after the cadaver dog hit, but then all the stuff with MW/Dane/Tanko and the FBI questioning the WS poster's friend in another state about her baby surfaced and that's when I got on the teeter totter. I just don't know.

I hope with all my heart that Lisa is alive somewhere, but I'm not really sure I believe she is. The question in my mind is who did whatever was done to/with her.

I think if the parents talked with police, we'd know what happened to Lisa and where she is now.

 

[krimekat]

I think if the parents talked with police, we'd know what happened to Lisa and where she is now.

The parents have talked with LE & the FBI ad nauseum.

Where is Pumpkin Pie?

She is with the angels IMHO

 

[scmom]

The parents have talked with LE & the FBI ad nauseum.

Where is Pumpkin Pie?

She is with the angels IMHO

I'm afraid this is true.

 

[Rosemarie]

The parents have talked with LE & the FBI ad nauseum.
Where is Pumpkin Pie?

She is with the angels IMHO

BBM I have to call it as I see it---------- that is not true. :liar:
Saying the parents talked to police ad nauseum is really laughable to me.
The parents have not been questioned since Oct. 8. It is now Nov. 17.
Evidently the parents are not answering pertinent questions or police wouldn't need to question them again.

I said this last night on another thread- imo the mother is most likely the perp.
I actually feel D should have been arrested immediately for neglect of her children after hearing she admitted to police about her drunken state that frightful night.:furious::behindbar


When D looses custody of her son and when J's son is removed from the home-maybe Deborah will talk. I find her lack of cooperation revolting.

 

[Camille]

Sorry Camille, that isn't true unfortunately. There are hundreds of missing children, presumed dead and still missing.

Excuse me? What isn't true? Everything in my post that you say isn't true is my opinion, my thoughts. I in no way implied that any of it was fact.

 

[Rosemarie]

I think that if the mother killed the baby in some manner they would have already found the body. She didn't have a lot of time to get rid of it and her mobility is limited. I certainly don't see her hopping over any fence. LOL If she did do it she did have help.


On the other hand if she didn't do it I have no idea what could have happened. There's just not enough reliable info out there for me to figure anything out. We really don't even know what the parents are doing or aren't doing unless they tell us via an interview and they aren't saying much.

There is not one thing claiming or stating this is ONLY OPINION in the above entire post or in said siggyline. I reposted the post again as proof.

From your post :

I think that if the mother killed the baby in some manner they would have already found the body

I believe Camille and know for a fact by looking at the missing threads here (that WSers have passionately followed for years), that many many babies and children thought to be deceased have not been found.

My proof and link to my proof?
All the missing threads here at WS for missing children. Reading and studying these threads will render one numb with sadness.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I have no idea whatsoever although, I am on the fence (meaning I have some thoughts one way and some thoughts another). Somedays, I think DB is responsible, others I think both parents are responsible. Then, I think JI is responsible... Who ever it is, be it family or possibly a neighborhood friend/hookup, I think someone else familiar or known to the family is or could be a stranger responsible.

Thanks for the poll as that's where I'm at. Working on it though!

Poll Options
One month into the investigation where do your thoughts lie? What happened to Lisa?
I have no idea whatsoever
I am on the fence (meaning I have some thoughts one way and some thoughts another)
I think DB is responsible
I think JI is responsible
I think both parents are responsible
I think someone else familiar or known to the family is responsible
I think a stranger is responsible
other
View Poll Results

 

[PoppyH]

Almost 6 weeks and this case is going nowhere fast, at this point I believe Lisa is in gods arms, no one will be charged, and I still have no clue who did what, all JMO