A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[Baznme]

Were there not searches on ZG? Where she's lived in the past? What she drove?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Total speculation.

Sure it is total speculation, but is much more likely to be accurate than the insane rantings of the Anthony family. That was "pure speculation" too and they made enough money to catch up all their bills and not lose their house with it. Hmmmmmmmmmm I wonder who I can sell mine to?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

If she REALLY wanted to play the victim, why did she not tell anybody immediately??

She couldn't - the drug profiles on Caylee would have put her in jail. She thought they would believe her.

 

[madeleine]

Were there not searches on ZG? Where she's lived in the past? What she drove?

Maybe it was the other way around.She used the nanny story because it was something she remembered stumbling upon.

 

[madeleine]

I'm sorry but if she indeed planned all this and that's why she was searching that stuff then she is REALLY REALLY STUPID.

 

[Jolynna]

Your entirely reasonable question works hard against a premeditated murder.

Not if you take into account Casey's MO. None of her criminal doings are planned or carried out in an organized or thoughtful way.

Casey steals checks from her best friend. She is videotaped signing her own name to the checks. Casey shows her family a forged bank deposit ticket and tells them she has replaced money she stole.

Casey PLANNED to use Amy's checks...those were not spur of the moment crimes. She had time to think about what she was going to do after she rifled through Amy's car and came across the checkbook. Casey spent some effort forging the deposit ticket, too.

Just because Casey is a sloppy murderer and thief who didn't come up up with better lies to cover up what she did doesn't rule out premeditation. Sensible people avoid possible consequences by not doing the crimes.

 

[Baznme]

Maybe it was the other way around.She used the nanny story because it was something she remembered stumbling upon.

There was nothing on the internet letting her know ZG would be associated with Sawgrass. This was planned.

 

[MomofBoys]

What evidence is there that she STAGED a kidnapping?
IMO she made the nanny story up after it happened.

The duct tape could go a long way to indicate that if no other COD is ever determined.

We have no real idea how the duct tape was used. It's not proof she staged it, but it's one piece of evidence, when combined with other potential pieces of evidence, that could support such a scenario.

I mean, it's likely it was just to keep her quiet. I'd be interested in hearing if there were any ligatures, etc. Then it'd go down the murder mystery novel checklist.

Chloroform? Check!

Duct tape? Check!

Rope? Check!

I don't picture Casey as the type to stay home and geek out elaborate crime theories. I think she would have modeled any staging after whatever book she had read or show she had seen last.

 

[Baznme]

I'm sorry but if she indeed planned all this and that's why she was searching that stuff then she is REALLY REALLY STUPID.

Yes, she is! She is very stupid. What has she ever accomplished in her life other than "snow jobs".

 

[madeleine]

The duct tape could go a long way to indicate that if no other COD is ever determined.

We have no real idea how the duct tape was used. It's not proof she staged it, but it's one piece of evidence, when combined with other potential pieces of evidence, that could support such a scenario.

I mean, it's likely it was just to keep her quiet. I'd be interested in hearing if there were any ligatures, etc. Then it'd go down the murder mystery novel checklist.

Chloroform? Check!

Duct tape? Check!

Rope? Check!

I don't picture Casey as the type to stay home and geek out elaborate crime theories. I think she would have modeled any staging after whatever book she had read or show she had seen last.

Yes but then why did she dump the body so close to home?That would be stupid,links right back to HER!

 

[Wudge]

Sure it is total speculation, but is much more likely to be accurate than the insane rantings of the Anthony family. That was "pure speculation" too and they made enough money to catch up all their bills and not lose their house with it. Hmmmmmmmmmm I wonder who I can sell mine to?

You're also speculating that it's more likely to be accurate than .....

 

[madeleine]

Actually,searching that stuff,dumping the body so close to home,inventing such a ridiculous nanny/kidnapping story,the shovel,the "i lost my phone",everything is so so stupid in the end.

My God I almost feel sorry for this girl.We thought she was smart but she was just lucky that nobody found that bag earlier.

 

[Marple]

Yes but then why did she dumped the body so close to home?That would be stupid,links right back to HER!

I think she panicked when GA went for the gas cans and on the spur of the moment, drove around the corner and dumped Caylee. That's why she made the odd remark later about Caylee calling her and telling her about her book. KC knew where she'd put her and what items they would find with her.

Some seem to think KC is intelligent and crafty but I think she's not very bright, perhaps even a bit stunted in her intellectual capacity.

ETA, most people of reasonable intelligence can think a bit "down the road". "If I do this, this is what will happen." KC never seems to consider how one thing leads to another so she has to constantly think on her feet to come up with plausible answers to questioning.

 

[MomofBoys]

Yes but then why did she dumped the body so close to home?That would be stupid,links right back to HER!
__________________

Yep, and I bet she's kicking herself. I think that GA was literally on her trail, whether it was when he wanted his gas cans or whatever, and she had to dump poor little Caylee off FAST.

Dead bodies reek like no other smell. They're messy. She probably couldn't drive her car much because of the smell. The body was probably truly disturbing to look at, whether she cared that the body was Caylee's or not.

When we searched, we searched with the theory that Caylee wouldn't be far. Whether it be from the house or off the road. She wouldn't want to drive a long distance with her in the trunk, and I think she only dumped the body when her last hand was played. She procrastinated and oops! Now she had to run down to the corner before daddy discovered the whole charade.

 

[madeleine]

Se sure left lots of other traces then,should be no problem for the prosecution to get her.

 

[Wudge]

Not if you take into account Casey's MO. None of her criminal doings are planned or carried out in an organized or thoughtful way.

Casey steals checks from her best friend. She is videotaped signing her own name to the checks. Casey shows her family a forged bank deposit ticket and tells them she has replaced money she stole.

Casey PLANNED to use Amy's checks...those were not spur of the moment crimes. She had time to think about what she was going to do after she rifled through Amy's car and came across the checkbook. Casey spent some effort forging the deposit ticket, too.

Just because Casey is a sloppy murderer and thief who didn't come up up with better lies to cover up what she did doesn't rule out premeditation. Sensible people avoid possible consequences by not doing the crimes.

Nothing here represents evidence of a premeditated murder or an MO.

 

[Jolynna]

I think Casey had fantasized about getting rid of Caylee and maybe other members of her family. They were daydreams, like her job.

However, after the fight with Cindy, with Tony pressuring her to stay overnight (but without Caylee), Casey got rid of one of her life's annoyances.

She didn't come up with ANY story or blame it on an accident because I don't think Casey wanted to be bothered any more than possible. She only did enough to cover her behind for the moment.

 

[daisy7]

She couldn't - the drug profiles on Caylee would have put her in jail. She thought they would believe her.

I, personally, don't believe that KC was drugging Caylee. But, IF she was, a drug profile showing drugs in Caylee's system (when her remains were eventually found) "could" somewhat substantiate the "bad" nanny doing it and then taking Caylee for whatever reason.

My biggest question is, WHY did KC stay in Orlando if she wanted to cover up a pre-meditated murder of her daughter, or even cover up an accidental death??

 

[Devon]

If it was an accident, it might have been through her gross negligence (leaving baby in car with chloroform she was playing around with, for whatever reason, or after she'd drugged Caylee so she could party.) It might have been a snap. Her temper got the best of her and she killed the baby, meaning to at the moment or not really meaning to, but she was in a rage and it happened. She and Cindy are so emmeshed in such unhealthy ways, not even getting to her relationship with George and Lee. I can ABSOLUTLEY see her trying to hide an accident at the time it happened so Cindy wouldn't find out because the worse thing for KC might have been to lose Cindy forever, and she might have thought that would happen. Even now, in KC's mind, she might prefer LIP to having her family find out, or Baez could be calling all the shots and keeping her away from everyone so she won't break down. What these people have got going on is not normal or healthy. I can see KC lookin' down at the remains wishing she could have it all back, feeling as if her Mommy would never forgive her and just moving on...figuring she'd come up with something later. She just hadn't quite gotten around to it a month later. But I think that's who she is. That seems to be her personality, disorder, psychiatric condition whatever. I don't think she insane enough to not know what she did, or that is was very wrong, but I think she's quite a few logs short of a complete wood pile.

ITA with the part of your comment I have bolded. I really don't see any validity in the speculation that KC deliberately killed Caylee so that she could live the 'free and single' life. She could simply have handed custody to CA/GA to achieve this, as she herself acknowledges.

I am also not convinced that Caylee was killed to spite CA. We have heard about the alleged tensions and arguments between them and the supposed (unconfirmed) argument of the 15 June but IMO KC is very emotionally dependant on her mother (even though she may tell others she hates her) and I think that above and despite all, KC needs CA's approval and love. I just don't think she would deliberately do something that would destroy that forever.

I think that an accident occurred when KC was not paying attention to Caylee, and that in KC's mind it doesn't matter how Caylee died because she believes her mother will never forgive her, irrespective of the circumstances, and this is why she has invented a story where someone else is responsible.

She claims that by not talking she is protecting the family from harm, but IMO she is protecting herself from CA's wrath. I think this is also why she says she feels 'safer' in jail, and why she has refused to see her family since the early visits took place. She is emotionally immature, a coward, a liar and a thief - but I am yet to be convinced that she is also a cold-blooded killer.

 

[MomofBoys]

Nothing here represents evidence of a premeditated murder or an MO.

No, but I think that might be the point. The sloppiness that some people seem to use as indication that this was an accident...that just seems to be who KC is, really. She could decide to use Amy's checks without thinking things through. She could decide to steal from her grandparents having to know she'd have to get caught. It's like she went through her life merely delaying the inevitable; she believed she could just explain stuff away as people caught on.

Well, with a murder, she couldn't, finally.

It doesn't proved it was premediated IN AND OF ITSELF, but it shows she could push aside the notion of being penalized for an action she had to think about in advance. Sloppy, careless, overconfident, however you want to characterize it.