A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[Devon]

I agree that Casey didn't form a better story about what happened to Caylee because she didn't want to interrupt her plans with Tony.

Simple as that.

LE and ambulances are a lot of bother. Casey would have had to stay home and comfort her family. Hot body night was coming up June 20. Tony needed her.

Caylee went away in a manner that was convenient and easy for Casey.

IMO

And so she decided that numerous hazardous trips back to her parents home to deal with a slowly rotting corpse, and the ordeal of driving around in her car for days with the stench of death while working out what to do with the body was a 'convenient and easy way' of freeing herself up for pleasure with Tony, and far less troublesome than comforting her family? I don't buy that.

 

[CBTampa]

You know what I found interesting? It has been reported that when KC was told of the body being found, she started crying, dropped to her knees, said "I can't believe this is happening" and ask for a sedative. How did she know it was Caylee?

 

[CBTampa]

And so she decided that numerous hazardous trips back to her parents home to deal with a slowly rotting corpse, and the ordeal of driving around in her car for days with the stench of death while working out what to do with the body was a 'convenient and easy way' of freeing herself up for pleasure with Tony, and far less troublesome than comforting her family? I don't buy that.

I don't think she even remotely thought about that. She was only dealing with the task at hand. The way she has done everything. Do you think that she even thought about the consequences of the stealing she did. She was even brazen to cash a check at BOA on the day that AH came home. Surely, she didn't think she would get away with it. IMO

 

[Elley Mae]

You know what I found interesting? It has been reported that when KC was told of the body being found, she started crying, dropped to her knees, said "I can't believe this is happening" and ask for a sedative. How did she know it was Caylee?

Now that is a very good point, never thought about that.

 

[Indigo]

You know what I found interesting? It has been reported that when KC was told of the body being found, she started crying, dropped to her knees, said "I can't believe this is happening" and ask for a sedative. How did she know it was Caylee?

She had quite a different response when there were (erroneous) reports of bones found in a trash bag in the river, didn't she? She calmly walked back to her cell that time, IIRC. Her reactions have given her away--for if anyone else had killed Caylee, Casey would have had no way of knowing where her body was. No way out of that one. JMO.

 

[MomofBoys]

You know what I found interesting? It has been reported that when KC was told of the body being found, she started crying, dropped to her knees, said "I can't believe this is happening" and ask for a sedative. How did she know it was Caylee?

That's a good point. I mean, I'd like to think that even Casey is logical enough to realize that the body of a small child just yards from their house didn't look good, but if the report of her reaction is accurate--it's still damning. Needing a sedative is unlikely if you're at all confident in the NDI scenario.

Because throughout all of this, I don't think anyone has come up with a logical theory as to why ZFG would have killed Caylee. Has KC even speculated that Zanny might have meant Caylee harm? Everything she ever said pointed to Zanny abducting her and then going about life as normal, whether it be at the theme parks or in NY, etc.

Disclaimer: I realize ZFG doesn't exist, but in many ways it'd be easier to come up with a motive for a fake person than a real one. Why didn't KC plant the seed early that she was afraid ZFG would do Caylee harm? I guess that wouldn't work, though, because then LE would be all "Why did you leave your child with someone [that doesn't exist] that might do her harm?

She could have at least shown more [fake] emotion and fear to show some doubts about Caylee's safety.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[kageykaren]

I believe the jailhouse minister told KC about Caylees remains. This was the perfect time for KC to try out her new found emotion, (she had probably been going over this scene, the script for sometime now,) of falling on your knees to hear the angels voices. It was Christmas time. Was KC given the standard anit anxiety drug for all jailhouse members or was she given a one time special order of a drug? It was reported KC ordered alot of snacks that day. There is no amount of medication that can take the true pain away of loosing a child other than a elephant tranquelizer dose. The news of Caylee didn't effect her to the point of loosing her appetite because it didn't bother her to hear such devastating news.

 

[Jolynna]

And so she decided that numerous hazardous trips back to her parents home to deal with a slowly rotting corpse, and the ordeal of driving around in her car for days with the stench of death while working out what to do with the ody was a 'convenient and easy way' of freeing herself up for pleasure with Tony, and far less troublesome than comforting her family? I don't buy that.

From Casey's point of view, IMO, the answer to that is in Casey's own words.

Casey, herself, said comforting her family for a minute when she needed Tony's phone number was "A HUGE waste". "They just want Caylee".

Obviously, Casey is furious at having to endure the incovenience of family & icky questions when she needs to talk to Tony. She sighs like a martyr because of the bother.

Why would she be more ok being inconvenienced with LE and her family on June 16 than she was in July?

In the 31 days after Caylee died, Casey fretted to EVERYONE constantly about whether or not Tony "loved her" and her relationship.

It doesn't seem Caylee's dead body in the trunk was THAT much of a problem. Tony and Amy let her use their vehicles. Casey seems to have found ways to get where she needed to go. She is even able to text a friend about the bad smell plastered over her car frame that she just got *rid of*.

There is no question in my mind where Casey's priorities were. I don't think Casey made up a better story about what happened to Caylee because it would have been too much bother. I think Casey thought she had more important ways to spend her time.

 

[azwriter]

I believe premeditated, and thats how I voted, First thing you do with an accident is call 911, accidents happen period its tragic yes, but you know you did everything in your power to help your child...........not try and cover it up for petes sake!!


Poppy

PoppyH, I agree with what you are saying here. Even if Casey was afraid of her mother's reaction to an accident that took Caylee's life, Casey still had to figure out some way to explain why Caylee was no longer around. Which I think would be more difficult to explain than to tell your mom "It was an accident!"
I believe in premeditation because of evidence found on the computer search. But more than anything, the lies, stories, all the cover-up would not be so necessary if it was an accident.
IMHO Casey saw her daughter as a punishment from her mother when Cindy refused to allow her to adopt her daughter out.
Regardless of how the death occured, it's a heartbeaking event for all involved. Us included.

 

[Jolynna]

I think the solution to why Casey did what she did the way she did it is simple.

A good story would have involved confrontation. It would have cut into Casey's plans. So would have letting Caylee live. Casey got what she wanted when she wanted it with the least possible effort.

IMO

 

[ibyoungr]

I have always believed it was premeditated. What evidence is there of an accident? I generally assume murders are premeditated unless I hear otherwise. She didnt call to report her daughter missing for 31 days. Oh wait - no she didnt. Grandma did that. In addition to that, if it had been accident she would have broken down by now. No way.

So what is suffocation at the spur of the moment called? She was passionate about Tony, she was passionate about not giving Caylee to her mother, she was passionate about partying... she was passionate about shutting Caylee up with a pillow.. if she would only take her nap and if Mom would just get off her back... she has a date with Tony and Fusion on the 20th. Just shut up or I will make you shut up. Suffocation in itself could be considered pre-meditated even if it was a split second decision.

It seems most people here want to say either it was an accident or drugging by cholorform. Very few think Casey suffocated her. Why?

 

[Devon]

I think the solution to why Casey did what she did the way she did it is simple.

A good story would have involved confrontation. It would have cut into Casey's plans. So would have letting Caylee live. Casey got what she wanted when she wanted it with the least possible effort.

IMO

So what do you think KC's plans where? She knew that TL was intending to return home to NY once he had finished his education and it's likely he would have moved back with his family until he had found full time employment. Do you think she intended to hang on to his shirt-tails and move herself (penniless and jobless) into his parents home too? IIRC she told one of her friends (Iassen I think) that she would not want to move to NY. Do you also really think she would have been happy to leave the comfort and security of the free ride she was getting from her parents to go all that way with TL?

I've no doubt she may have daydreamed about a future with TL (the 'Mrs L' doodles) but I think it unlikely that she thought it a 'done deal'. Furthermore, TL had plans for a career and didn't appear to be about to start creating the family of male offspring that Caylee supposedly would not be allowed to join. As to that notion, TL may have said he wanted boys, but he also stated he liked and cared about Caylee. I doubt he ever intimated to KC that Caylee would not be welcome if they did take the relationship further. This little piece of 'information' seems to be just another titbit that has been pounced on by some, cloaked with innuendo and used to weave a 'motive' for murder.

 

[LaLaw2000]

You know what I found interesting? It has been reported that when KC was told of the body being found, she started crying, dropped to her knees, said "I can't believe this is happening" and ask for a sedative. How did she know it was Caylee?

GREAT question!

If Casey had been told WHERE the body was found, this would be a sure sign of guilt to me that she KNEW it was Caylee.

I think Baez had been telling Casey that if no body was found, her case would be easier to defend. I also tend to think that Baez had given Casey a false sense of hope that she may not be convicted.

 

[LaLaw2000]

IMO, Casey had been formulating a plan to kill Caylee but may not have had a concrete date to put her plan in action.

I do believe the catylyst to killing Caylee at the time she killed her was the argument between she and Cindy.

 

[Indigo]

From Casey's point of view, IMO, the answer to that is in Casey's own words.

Casey, herself, said comforting her family for a minute when she needed Tony's phone number was "A HUGE waste". "They just want Caylee".

Obviously, Casey is furious at having to endure the incovenience of family & icky questions when she needs to talk to Tony. She sighs like a martyr because of the bother.

Why would she be more ok being inconvenienced with LE and her family on June 16 than she was in July?

In the 31 days after Caylee died, Casey fretted to EVERYONE constantly about whether or not Tony "loved her" and her relationship.

It doesn't seem Caylee's dead body in the trunk was THAT much of a problem. Tony and Amy let her use their vehicles. Casey seems to have found ways to get where she needed to go. She is even able to text a friend about the bad smell plastered over her car frame that she just got *rid of*.

There is no question in my mind where Casey's priorities were. I don't think Casey made up a better story about what happened to Caylee because it would have been too much bother. I think Casey thought she had more important ways to spend her time.

(Bold by me) And when Tony didn't respond to Casey, she threw him under the bus with the rest of her "suspects." During LA's jailhouse visit to Casey, LA goes through a list of people and asks Casey if they are trustworthy.(including Mom and Dad, lol) Tony is on the "don't trust" list. Spiteful *****?

 

[costalpilot]

.....--since we now have every reason to suspect chloroform may have actually been used to destroy the ODOR or DNA--AFTER Caylee's decaying body had been inside trunk......... IMHO

i bolded "WE"

you mean "YOU" have every reason to believe what you stated.

some others probably agree with you

but "WE" is a vast overstatement

imo

 

[Marple]

(Bold by me) And when Tony didn't respond to Casey, she threw him under the bus with the rest of her "suspects." During LA's jailhouse visit to Casey, LA goes through a list of people and asks Casey if they are trustworthy.(including Mom and Dad, lol) Tony is on the "don't trust" list. Spiteful *****?

In KC's mind, I think "don't trust" meant "I don't trust these people to keep my secrets." She knew that once people started putting together all the different stories she'd told to different people, her semi-charmed life would implode.

 

[Jolynna]

So what do you think KC's plans where? She knew that TL was intending to return home to NY once he had finished his education and it's likely he would have moved back with his family until he had found full time employment. Do you think she intended to hang on to his shirt-tails and move herself (penniless and jobless) into his parents home too? IIRC she told one of her friends (Iassen I think) that she would not want to move to NY. Do you also really think she would have been happy to leave the comfort and security of the free ride she was getting from her parents to go all that way with TL?

I've no doubt she may have daydreamed about a future with TL (the 'Mrs L' doodles) but I think it unlikely that she thought it a 'done deal'. Furthermore, TL had plans for a career and didn't appear to be about to start creating the family of male offspring that Caylee supposedly would not be allowed to join. As to that notion, TL may have said he wanted boys, but he also stated he liked and cared about Caylee. I doubt he ever intimated to KC that Caylee would not be welcome if they did take the relationship further. This little piece of 'information' seems to be just another titbit that has been pounced on by some, cloaked with innuendo and used to weave a 'motive' for murder.

Casey told Jesse G. on June 16 she was moving out of her parent's home. She was up all night June 15 and into the wee hours of June 16 talking to and texting Tony saying she was moving out of her parent's home that very day.

Tony told Casey that SHE was welcome to stay with him but Caylee wasn't.

According to Tony, Casey moved in with him June 16.

She left her parent's home according to her phone pings at about 4:18 and was pinging at Tony's by 4:25. Jesse may have heard Caylee in the background when he talked to Casey at 2:52.

According to Tony's roommates and Tony and the Blockbuster videotape, Casey was bubbly and a happy camper on June 16...the day Caylee died.

 

[maur33]

I don't think she even remotely thought about that. She was only dealing with the task at hand. The way she has done everything. Do you think that she even thought about the consequences of the stealing she did. She was even brazen to cash a check at BOA on the day that AH came home. Surely, she didn't think she would get away with it. IMO

The stealing and cashing Amy's checks just knocks me out cold, how in the world did she think she was going to get away with that?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that she had been stealing from her family for so long and had never had to face those consequences that she just figured Amy would be as forgiving as cindy. She has serious boundary issues, it's like she saw her family as these people you use, and when she couldn't go home to steal from cindy she just as natural as you please starting stealing from Amy.

 

[JWG]

I am wondering what hard evidence we have of premeditation. As best I can tell, the reasons cited for believing in premeditation are KC's actions and statements on and after June 16. But the only evidence cited prior to June 16 are the "suspicious" 12 minutes worth of computer searches done in mid-March. The alleged Cindy-chokes-KC incident is sometimes cited as well, although it is not clear to me how that proves KC pre-planned Caylee's murder.:waitasec:

Just to stir things up further, do the following two images uploaded on April 25 to KC's Photobucket account support pre-meditation, or are they meaningless?