A question for Annasmom

[madge]

I have been reading for the past 3 days. All of the links are dead and I can't find anything on the other listed pages that show your evidence you are sleuthing. Is there another source, besides the book, that has the things that the forum has been working on.

Also, is the forum sleuthers still working on this? It seems like the last I read was Sept of 08.

Annasmom, I pray you find your answers.

 

[Annasmom]

I have been reading for the past 3 days. All of the links are dead and I can't find anything on the other listed pages that show your evidence you are sleuthing. Is there another source, besides the book, that has the things that the forum has been working on.

Also, is the forum sleuthers still working on this? It seems like the last I read was Sept of 08.

Annasmom, I pray you find your answers.

Thank you, Madge. I just checked the old threads and they're all still there, thousands of posts. You do have to log on to see the old posts, however (something to do with bandwidth). We have had posts up through today, though not as many as in the past. Do you need to empty your cache? You may also look at www.searchingforanna.com for other links and a synopsis of the case.

 

[Annasmom]

~~~

Thanks a million, I realize you were not in contact w/GW for sometime... I really wanted to to find out if the visiting day was planned or happened out of the blue which apparently is was I was wondering if there were any photos still on the camera when found, I guess not?

SK

There was no film in the camera. Curiously, GW took an entire roll of pictures of Anna right before he left home. I have the negatives and the contact sheet. I think it was one of the small contact sheet pictures that was found in his papers with her full name and date of birth on it. This is the one we thought could have been used as a passport photograph, but maybe it was just one he kept in order to remember her. (She was so young when this was taken that I doubt he could have recognized her at age five from the picture unless he had seen her elsewhere unbeknownst to me.)

 

[Rhett]

Annasmom, A thought just occurred to me after your most recent post. Did you ever request and get a copy of all of Anna's school records? I know that there were probably not many because she was so young. My reason for asking is maybe there is something noted about her such as: Someone asking about her; someone unusual hanging around, etc. I know that it is a long shot but maybe something is noted that the teachers, principal, etc. didn't remember to mention. Maybe her dad did see her at the school or at some other event.

 

[Annasmom]

Annasmom, A thought just occurred to me after your most recent post. Did you ever request and get a copy of all of Anna's school records? I know that there were probably not many because she was so young. My reason for asking is maybe there is something noted about her such as: Someone asking about her; someone unusual hanging around, etc. I know that it is a long shot but maybe something is noted that the teachers, principal, etc. didn't remember to mention. Maybe her dad did see her at the school or at some other event.

Rhett, Anna's kindergarten teachers came to visit only days after she disappeared, and they brought all her art work and projects with them. I am sure they would have told me if anything like what you mention had taken place. However, it is worth noting that the daughter of one of the teachers posted on Websleuths several times and said that the other teacher had always believed Anna was kidnapped. I see this teacher every once in a while, since she is my neighbor, but I think this was just a feeling expressed at second hand. As you can imagine, Anna's disappearance had a huge effect on the teachers and the kindergarten class, to the extent that they had to call in a therapist. I remember Ruth's (the teacher) saying that one child said "but I don't want to disappear. I want to grow up." And Ruth responded that "if Anna doesn't grow up here on earth, she will grow up in heaven."

 

[Odyssey]

Annasmom,

Did GW ever in the beginning seem to have second thoughts about interacting with GB or was he "smitten" with him from the moment they met? I know you had mentioned that he discussed GB with his therapist, I'm curious if that was in a context of being concerned or maybe he had some realization that he was falling into a trap?

I am also curious if he generally had the type of personality where he needed direction from you or anyone before meeting GB? I am just thinking that possibly when GB wasn't physically with him, he might have been easily persuaded by other people to say and do things he wouldn't normally do?

 

[Annasmom]

Annasmom,

Did GW ever in the beginning seem to have second thoughts about interacting with GB or was he "smitten" with him from the moment they met? I know you had mentioned that he discussed GB with his therapist, I'm curious if that was in a context of being concerned or maybe he had some realization that he was falling into a trap?

I am also curious if he generally had the type of personality where he needed direction from you or anyone before meeting GB? I am just thinking that possibly when GB wasn't physically with him, he might have been easily persuaded by other people to say and do things he wouldn't normally do?

I would say he was impressed with him from the beginning and did not seem to have any doubts about him. He hadn't previously shown any signs of being easily persuaded by anyone. Whenever he mentioned GB to anyone, it seemed to be in hopes of recruiting other "followers".

 

[yosande]

We've been looking at some pictures of a George Brody who was probably born around that time, but that would make him much younger than the GB I met, who had to be at least in his late sixties in 1967, if not older than that.

I haven't read ahead, so this has already been asked and answered, but JR brought to my mind, "junior", and with this post, well it's kinda funny, not is a laughable way but in a strange way. moo

 

[yosande]

The fact that GW was away from his hotel for two weeks was furnished by the desk clerk at the hotel. Nobody knows where he went. I have all the passport information posted somewhere on the forum, but it was iffy. GW applied for a new passport, saying that his old one--which was still valid--had been destroyed in a fire. This is the one which would have had all the entry and exit stamps in it. The application for the new passport showed only "Europe and Greece" as planned destinations. The passports themselves were not among the papers.
I don't think the name on the paper had any particular significance other than as proof that GW was at work on that day.

Was GB also gone during those two weeks? tia

bbm, I personally think this paper holds more significance than that, jmo though.

You didn't say when GW applied for a new passport, but I assume it was after he returned from his two week vacation, yes?

Iirc it has been said that GW went on many vacations, is this true?
And wouldn't this be out of character for either one of these characters?
I read about the hotel room being "like a womb" so it doesn't make sense that they would live in a place like that for the sense of security it gave them only to leave the country frequently, jmo.
Did GB go with GW on these "vacations" as I can't see GW going without him being as he called him several times a day to "check in" and "get instructions."
Somebody help me understand. tia

Also, I was surprised to learn that GW had a car at all as I was under the impression that he lived close to his several jobs, and walked to and from, also that when they went out at night, the impression I got when reading it was that they also walked then.
Did anyone else get that impression, or did I just assume it because of their mental ilnesses? tia

ETA; the pic of GW with ACE and age gave me the "impression" that it was a pose for a purpose, in that GW is looking straight at the camera, looking a bit uncomfortable, and paying little to no attention to Anna, who was looking at someone/something else off to the side.
I find his attire to be out of place as well. He looks starchy, both clothes and appearance, while Anna is in casual clothes, and the background is casual as well.
I find it to be an odd picture, and therefore, my thinking is that the picture was taken for a reason other than having a momento of her first birthday. jmo though.

ETAA; I wonder if GW and GB drove to Canada, or Mexico, then boarded a plane to wherever they took Anna. They might have gotten a passport for her from another country, not the USA, under the name of ACE. I also wonder if GW, or GB, might have gotten a passport with the same last name "E."
just thinking out loud.

 

[Annasmom]

Was GB also gone during those two weeks? tia

bbm, I personally think this paper holds more significance than that, jmo though.

You didn't say when GW applied for a new passport, but I assume it was after he returned from his two week vacation, yes?

Iirc it has been said that GW went on many vacations, is this true?
And wouldn't this be out of character for either one of these characters?
I read about the hotel room being "like a womb" so it doesn't make sense that they would live in a place like that for the sense of security it gave them only to leave the country frequently, jmo.
Did GB go with GW on these "vacations" as I can't see GW going without him being as he called him several times a day to "check in" and "get instructions."
Somebody help me understand. tia

Also, I was surprised to learn that GW had a car at all as I was under the impression that he lived close to his several jobs, and walked to and from, also that when they went out at night, the impression I got when reading it was that they also walked then.
Did anyone else get that impression, or did I just assume it because of their mental ilnesses? tia

ETA; the pic of GW with ACE and age gave me the "impression" that it was a pose for a purpose, in that GW is looking straight at the camera, looking a bit uncomfortable, and paying little to no attention to Anna, who was looking at someone/something else off to the side.
I find his attire to be out of place as well. He looks starchy, both clothes and appearance, while Anna is in casual clothes, and the background is casual as well.
I find it to be an odd picture, and therefore, my thinking is that the picture was taken for a reason other than having a momento of her first birthday. jmo though.

ETAA; I wonder if GW and GB drove to Canada, or Mexico, then boarded a plane to wherever they took Anna. They might have gotten a passport for her from another country, not the USA, under the name of ACE. I also wonder if GW, or GB, might have gotten a passport with the same last name "E."
just thinking out loud.

Remember that I was not in contact with these two, so anything I know about their activities is second hand or more. GW did in fact drive a great deal and was followed by a sheriff's deputy the week after Anna disappeared. The keys to his car were among the things his brother collected from the hotel room. GB did not drive. I will check on the date of the passport application, though to my memory it was made before Anna disappeared.

 

[SideKick]

Hi Annasmom!
Happy New Year to everyone!!

Do you know off hand what other items were sent to GB's brother otherthan the car keys? Anything which would help us look into?

Love~

 

[Annasmom]

Hi Annasmom!
Happy New Year to everyone!!

Do you know off hand what other items were sent to GB's brother otherthan the car keys? Anything which would help us look into?

Love~

The brother had to clean out the hotel room and settle the bills. He gave us all the contents of GW's files, which is what I have been calling the Box From Hell. He gave all the clothing to the hotel desk clerk and to Salvation Army. I believe the coroner took and kept something like a suicide note which expressed feelings of guilt, but I have never seen this and do not really know what it said. Without some solid evidence we would not be able to get a copy of this, since GW and I were divorced at the time he died and this is not a matter of public record. Much of the information we have about GW's last days we got from a phone bill which had the numbers on it and which the brother gave to us. Joe Ford called all these numbers and Doogie also called some of them. We have all these names and places in the files now.

 

[Cubby]

I don't know exactly how to ask this, so will try as delicately as I can. Do we know that the Coroner was aware of Anna's disappearance? I too understand not wishing to know the contents of a suicide note, but has it been confirmed the note did not contain any information regarding Anna's disappearance?

 

[Annasmom]

I don't know exactly how to ask this, so will try as delicately as I can. Do we know that the Coroner was aware of Anna's disappearance? I too understand not wishing to know the contents of a suicide note, but has it been confirmed the note did not contain any information regarding Anna's disappearance?

There would be no way for the coroner to make any such connection; if there had been any reference to Anna, the brother (still a friend) would have told us. GW had a safety deposit box which contained the Chronicle story about Anna and a letter Joe Ford had written him.

GW applied for his last passport on July 9, 1971 in San Francisco.

If anyone has the time and/or inclination to work on the Freedom of Information business, their website is http://foia.fbi.gov. It is possible that they had a file on GW somewhere and that it might mention GB.

I had to visit the horrible Box From Hell to get this information, so I need to go outside and breathe some fresh air.

Happy New Year, WebSleuths, and many thanks for all your help.

 

[Cubby]

I will look around and see what it entails to find out about the freedom of information stuff.

 

[yosande]

Remember that I was not in contact with these two, so anything I know about their activities is second hand or more. GW did in fact drive a great deal and was followed by a sheriff's deputy the week after Anna disappeared. The keys to his car were among the things his brother collected from the hotel room. GB did not drive. I will check on the date of the passport application, though to my memory it was made before Anna disappeared.

Anna'smom, I'm truly sorry you had to visit that horrible bfh to get the info on his application for a new passport.

You say here that a deputy was following GW the week after Anna disappeared, but I thought he had himself disappeared for two weeks directly after Anna disappeared, so how could the deputy have been following him.
The question is therefore, in agreement with a timeline that I'm sure someone has, please clarify whether GW was missing for two weeks following Anna's disappearance. What day did he disappear, and did anyone ask the clerk if who informed whomever that GW was gone on vacation, or whatever, if GB was also gone? tia
If it was LE who asked the desk clerk this info, have they told you.
Did LE not think to ask concerning the older gentleman living with GW, and if he was gone or still there?

So, from my perspective of thinking GW and GB had something to do with Anna being missing; the passport had something stamped on it that GW did not want anyone else to know about, and it occurred before July of 1971, which is 18 months prior to Anna disappearance.
The picture of GW with Anna, aka to him, ACE, was taken in Sept of 1969.
So sometime after Sept of 1969, and before July of 1971, GW may have visited prospective adoption families in another country..........

So a question or two.
The pic of GW with Anna two days after her first birthday were they found in the bfh, and not in the safe deposit box with the letter from JF, and the newspaper clippings?
The patient form for the blood work of JR, age 51 year old male, was it found in the bfh, and not in the safe deposit box with the letter from JF, and the newspaper clippings? tia

 

[SherlockJr]

clipped by me...

...You say here that a deputy was following GW the week after Anna disappeared, but I thought he had himself disappeared for two weeks directly after Anna disappeared, so how could the deputy have been following him.
The question is therefore, in agreement with a timeline that I'm sure someone has, please clarify whether GW was missing for two weeks following Anna's disappearance. ...

Good question yosande. I was under the impression GW was away from the hotel for about 10 days.

 

[Annasmom]

You say here that a deputy was following GW the week after Anna disappeared, but I thought he had himself disappeared for two weeks directly after Anna disappeared, so how could the deputy have been following him.
The question is therefore, in agreement with a timeline that I'm sure someone has, please clarify whether GW was missing for two weeks following Anna's disappearance. What day did he disappear, and did anyone ask the clerk if who informed whomever that GW was gone on vacation, or whatever, if GB was also gone? tia
If it was LE who asked the desk clerk this info, have they told you.
Did LE not think to ask concerning the older gentleman living with GW, and if he was gone or still there?

So, from my perspective of thinking GW and GB had something to do with Anna being missing; the passport had something stamped on it that GW did not want anyone else to know about, and it occurred before July of 1971, which is 18 months prior to Anna disappearance.
The picture of GW with Anna, aka to him, ACE, was taken in Sept of 1969.
So sometime after Sept of 1969, and before July of 1971, GW may have visited prospective adoption families in another country..........

So a question or two.
The pic of GW with Anna two days after her first birthday were they found in the bfh, and not in the safe deposit box with the letter from JF, and the newspaper clippings?
The patient form for the blood work of JR, age 51 year old male, was it found in the bfh, and not in the safe deposit box with the letter from JF, and the newspaper clippings? tia

I'll try to answer your questions, but I truly cannot remember when it was that someone thought GW was away for two weeks, and I would have to check the book to see exactly when the deputy followed GW. He did not follow him full time, of course; Tink, the PI, apparently followed him some time after that, and Joe Ford followed him for a while.

There was an infant picture of Anna with GW in the Box, but there wouldn't have been a picture dated 1969, since he was not in contact with us at all at that time. The patient form (a carbon copy, not the original) was found in the Box and I still believe it was included as an alibi for the day Anna disappeared, since we know from all the empty file folders that GW went through all his documents before he died and got rid of many of them.

What was blacked out on the passport application was the name of GB, who was supposed to be informed if GW died. He was anxious that I NOT be informed.

Joe Ford interviewed the desk clerk at the Abby Hotel in January 1982. The clerk remembered many details of the two men, including the fact that they had rented two rooms, not just one, though Brody died in Waters' room. The clerk said Brody was in his seventies when he died. This document is pretty sordid, but if you believe it might have other answers, I'll be glad to quote from it.

Sherlock, who has a much better sense of the time line than I do, might be able to tell you about that two-week vacation, if that's what it was.

 

[Annasmom]

I looked up the dates. Jan. 31, 1973, Sgt. Maguire said that the Georges had not been seen at the hotel for more than a week. My diary said that Sgt. Maguire had informed us that the two were living at the hotel on Jan. 25, 1973. This implies that he had checked into them prior to that time, but I still can't say exactly when he followed the two.

 

[SideKick]

Hi Annasmom,

This maybe a ridiculous question however I must ask :innocent:

Over the years since Anna disappeared while you were still living in the house (not sure how long you stayed at the farm after Anna went missing), was there anything at all that perhaps happened that you hadn't thought of? Anything out of the ordinary?

Did anyone call you, an odd call on the telephone?
Any weird mail?
Did anyone come to your door you didn't know that well? Perhaps asking a question?

I'm wondering if the 2 G's took Anna and were away for approx. a week, New Mexico comes to mind. It's still a State in the USA. Mexico itself would mean they would have crossed the boarder... they may have not been willing to go to that extent with a small child, who could talk.....Arizona is another State I'd like to investigate. For some reason, I can't see them driving north... odd I know, just a thought.

Also, if they took Anna in the white van, how in heck ( and I don't expect an answer ) did they keep Anna from yelling out! Perhaps, just perhaps there was someone else in the van in the back area.. but who? Long Shot!

Anna may not have recognized her father at the time of abduction, or perhaps she did a little bit, he must have spoken to her with fatherly terms in order to get her into a vehicle.

Anyhoo....... off to check out Arizona and New Mexico adoption sites etc.

Love :blowkiss: