a view from the inside: observations from our own court observers #4

[Observer in AZ]

Before I go to sleep I want to get something out of my head which is where my notes started for today knowing this is controversial but it's just how I feel. I literally walked straight in to Jodi's mom as i walked in the courtroom. She was walking out and I was walking in and we collided. We both chuckled and said "I'm sorry!" in that normal you would in that kind of awkward moment in life. I trust my gut feeling completely and I keep having these little moments of colliding with her around the courtroom and every time it happens I am overwhelmed with this feeling of this woman just being a normal person going through something like this.

After hearing what those people were saying behind her and getting thrown out of court I sincerely felt/feel empathy for what that must feel like. I know many people have issues with her and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything but share how i feel. And I know I wouldn't feel this way if I'd not had these small encounters (for a reason?) that ignite this instant feeling of compassion for this woman. To me she kind of can't win for losing.She gave birth to this monster. She knew her when she was an innocent baby. How would she live the rest of her life if she wasn't there. And yet Jodi throws her under the bus yet again through this witness who testifies she is the one person who's had the brunt of Jodi's anger. I'm sure she has.

I don't know how else to explain my feelings other than to think of her this evening my weary heart goes out to this woman who's also enduring the unimaginable.

For me i think Jodi Arias is some kind of freak of nature and I do mean nature. I don't know from where she came but just on the limited knowledge I have, I don't hold it against her mother. Please don't throw rotten tomatoes at me...this was just kind of haunting me so had to get it out of my head. Now I can go to sleep. fftobed:

we kinda talked about this at HH I'd like to share my thoughts one I find it amazing that JAs parents are still married.. idk exact stats but typically disturbed individuals have split parents highly abusive etc from what we've heard ie lies spewed I don't see it.. I see parents who tried to keep a willful child to follow the rules

Idk if anyone would be sophisticated enough to handle what JA has done but I feel her mom is there because she feels she has to idk if out of unconditional love a mom for a child or obligated by others who feel she should. I also feel she has GUILT for what happened this was her child who did this I imagine if I was in shoes I'd think what could I done to stop this? Maybe we should have gotten her help years ago? How Did I not realize how disturbed she was etc. REMEMBER she did come to MESA to help JA load truck to me that's telling that her mom tried to help her also that TA & all her wonderful friends at her ward didn't help her just saying..(note goes to show JA lived in fantasy things weren't way she says).

Lastly I know we see mom & twin smile laugh giggle at times but WE DON'T KNOW WHY we think or feel it may be directed toward TAs family BUT I DON'T. I keep thinking back to day JA was on stand about how HER Mom beat her with wooden spoon the camera panned to mom & twin we saw twin look mom eyes wide like "can you believe she just outright lied" & mom kinda rolled her eyes almost as if she was silently saying here we go again with JAs lies & fantasy world..

I think everyone directly involved this case are victims because people like JA don't have friends or family they only have victims & pawns in their games! I know a woman like this who walked away from her child because I feel there was no use for anymore as the father had custody & the baby was no longer useful to keep the man in her life, source of support or able to be used for guilt get help from family. This is JMO wanted to share (ducking for cover lol)

PS last edit.. REMEMBER people like JA don't play by the same rules as we do... those closest to them like family tend to receive brunt of their behavior (save TA in this instance)..

 

[fuzzybutter]

Is the murderess giving goo goo eyes at a juror and then reporting it to JW? That was my impression right away.

At the end of court, JA and JW were acting like giddy grade school girls. They should be called out on it! And the juror at least be confronted about it.

I wish these jurors were behind a plate glass one-way mirror so that these shenanigans could not go on. That would put an end to it. JMO

Who knows what JA thinks she is pulling over on the jury? She may have convinced herself that they are all under her spell.

I do take issue with the idea that Wilmott is participating in any of this. Although I think she is vastly underestimating Martinez and is not the greatest attorney, I strongly doubt that she is participating in any high school type "let's get a juror on our side" behavior. This would be a serious ethical lapse that would end her career. I am sure she and Nurmi know better than anyone what a nutcase JA is. Even setting aside the career ending aspects of this, it is a tenuous plan at best--JA makes goo goo eyes at a juror and then she gets off?

 

[Martin L]

I think it was tonight...she wrote her brother was having a good night. Hope she was just too exhausted to post and all is good!lease:

For some reason i want to give her brother he name " brothercoolman "

 

[Negative green]

Prayers for Jodi's mom and family also. I too will pray for Jodi. After conviction ( can't muster it up now even though that does not make me a good person).

And I do not need to mention this probably, already on the prayer wheel for Travis' family and KCL and her brother.

 

[Sedona722]

Last night HLN showed more video of Det. Flores interview with Jodi before her arrest. He told her that her parents were very upset, that they had a suspicion she was involved in Travis's death. How sad is that? Jodi asked how he knew and he said his detectives were with her parents at that moment.

 

[popsicle]

we kinda talked about this at HH I'd like to share my thoughts one I find it amazing that JAs parents are still married.. idk exact stats but typically disturbed individuals have split parents highly abusive etc from what we've heard ie lies spewed I don't see it.. I see parents who tried to keep a willful child to follow the rules

Idk if anyone would be sophisticated enough to handle what JA has done but I feel her mom is there because she feels she has to idk if out of unconditional love a mom for a child or obligated by others who feel she should. I also feel she has GUILT for what happened this was her child who did this I imagine if I was in shoes I'd think what could I done to stop this? Maybe we should have gotten her help years ago? How Did I not realize how disturbed she was etc. REMEMBER she did come to MESA to help JA load truck to me that's telling that her mom tried to help her also that TA & all her wonderful friends at her ward didn't help her just saying..(note goes to show JA lived in fantasy things weren't way she says).

Lastly I know we see mom & twin smile laugh giggle at times but WE DON'T KNOW WHY we think or feel it may be directed toward TAs family BUT I DON'T. I keep thinking back to day JA was on stand about how HER Mom beat her with wooden spoon the camera panned to mom & twin we saw twin look mom eyes wide like "can you believe she just outright lied" & mom kinda rolled her eyes almost as if she was silently saying here we go again with JAs lies & fantasy world..

snipped for space by me

..

I never believed it was directed towards Travis' family. However, there is courtesy and respect not just for the court but especially for Travis' family. After all, there is a time and place for everything. jmo

 

[katiecoolady]

Good morning everyone. I finally wake up without my first thought "ok where do I need to go right now and how do I need to dress" and jumping out of bed. In fact I'm still in bed.

I'm gonna take my laptop next door to the little espresso shop here in a bit and listen to their jazzy music and do my notes once I get up and moving. I took pages and pages yesterday and I don't know why...weird!

Just to follow up with my post last night about Jodi's mom (thanks for indulging me and the feedback even if you don't agree..I get it, it's all good). I attended the Scott Peterson trial as you know, many times. I had an almost identical encounter with Jackie Peterson in the bathroom. I can't say I felt anything remotely like what I have felt just on a gut level, just on a body level for lack of anything else, that I have with Jodi's mom. I felt like Jackie helped raise that monster. I felt like she was disordered herself and manipulative and frankly not a person who inspired compassion from me. His Dad though, that was kinda different.

I have not feared and despised a person on this Earth I don't think as much as I do Jodi Arias.

I don't agree with some of the mom/sis's behaviors...yet I just keep developing this deep compassion for her which isn't something my head can explain very well. That's all.

And on another note, I hope the camera didn't catch ME laughing yesterday in the pm session as I sat with my friend Jake and we giggle and giggle all the time..we are like two kids on the playground. It's dangerous for me to sit with him! (and we are both murder victims' siblings--kinda weird huh).

Anyway, again thanks for indulging my thoughts. I am actually really moved by what I felt yesterday , still. So I'll just do what I do with all of that and have a moment with some tears today. :seeya:

 

[justice be served]

Can we even be sure she said that? The only person who heard it was #1Mom's friend.
One of the ladies said yesterday morning that 3 people were taken ahead of the line, greeted by Nurmi and seated behind Jodi's mother and aunt.
Was this the same people who caused the trouble?

:seeya:

No these we're different people than who Nurmi acknowledged. It was in the afternoon session.

 

[katiecoolady]

For some reason i want to give her brother he name " brothercoolman "

I like it!

 

[katiecoolady]

I also got the impression Jodie was being flirty. I have never seen her twirl the ends of her hair before, as she did yesterday (Thursday) When the jury was leaving or coming in, instead of standing in her place as usual, she stepped back as if she wanted to be seen.

If she's flirting with someone on the jury, he's not getting it (or she) as NONE of them look at her.

I think it was Wrestler who wrote the question about "as traumatic as a haircut?" but that's just totally based on a hunch. It stood out as it's own and he submitted only ONE question that I've seen and he seems like he could be sarcastic like that. So maybe she in her twisted sociopathic way thinks she has in him her corner because he's young and kinda goofballish in a way (or looks it) but I'm telling you, she does NOT.

 

[KarmicLaw]

i agree with you KCL. As a mother, I had posted two days again in the trial thread that I often look at my daughter with wonder and awe and think "I can't believe I made her". I also say it out loud to her as a form of pride and praise. Then I wonder how JA's mom must be feeling the same sentiment, but with a completely different emotion. I can't imagine what it would be like to birth such a freak of nature. To this day, even Jeffrey Dahmer's dad has a tremendous sense of guilt. I truly believe that "we are born this way" despite parental influence. For example, my siblings and I grew up in the same environment and we couldn't be more different if we tried. I think it is unfair to vilify the Mom as she didn't do this crime, she most likely could never have prevented it. Personality disordered individuals are typically not treatable through medication. I feel the same way you do....a deep sense of compassion that JA's mom is another victim in this senseless tragedy.

 

[Clue Finder 55]

I borrowed this from a freindly sight and thought it was perfect

Circumstanial Evidence



Circumstantial evidence, as opposed to direct evidence, is essentially observed circumstances from which a valid conclusion can be drawn based on those observed circumstances. For example, one winter evening, just before you go to bed at night, you look out the window and see that the streets are clean.

You wake up in the morning, look out the window and see that the ground is covered with a light dusting of snow. From the observed 'circumstance' you can speculate/consider the following.

a) Someone passed by in the night with a truck full of snow and sprinkled the streets with snow

b) If you believe in snow fairies, it could have been that they passed by and covered the ground in snow.

c) It snowed during the night.

d) If you had never seen snow before, you can't figure out what happened during the night to cover the ground with all that white stuff.

Of course, the correct answer is (c). The snow on the ground is evidence, (proof) that it snowed during the night and that conclusion, based on your observations, is just as valid as it would be if you sat up during the night looking out the window and watched the snow fall.

The same applies to the "meteor" example the Dr. used. You didn't see the meteor collide with the ground but the evidence, (the crater it created) left behind is valid circumstantial evidence, (proof) that a meteor landed at that spot at some time before you observed the crater.

That's kind of awkwardly written. Hope it makes the point.


Great explanation of circumstantial evidence.

So for those who think that "beyond a reasonable doubt" means "beyond any possible doubt", that is like saying (in this example):

"I can't say for sure that it snowed during the night, I did not see it, so maybe answer (a) actually happened (someone passed by in the night with a truck full of snow and sprinkled the streets with snow)"

Could someone get a truck and fill it with snow? Yes, that is not impossible
Could someone drive the truck to your street and sprinkle that snow around evenly? Yes, that is not impossible

However, absent some strong, logical evidence to support the "truck with snow" theory, most intelligent people would come to the conclusion beyond a REASONABLE doubt that there is snow on the ground because it snowed during the night. Is this conclusion beyond ANY doubt? No, it is not, because the truck with snow scenario is not absolutely impossible. But the conclusion can be reached beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the standard required to reach a guilty verdict.



(So in the Arias case, the fact that Jodi made up a story that is not impossible does not mean the evidence does not show beyond a reasonable doubt that this murder was premeditated

 

[polleypockets]

Good morning everyone. I finally wake up without my first thought "ok where do I need to go right now and how do I need to dress" and jumping out of bed. In fact I'm still in bed.

I'm gonna take my laptop next door to the little espresso shop here in a bit and listen to their jazzy music and do my notes once I get up and moving. I took pages and pages yesterday and I don't know why...weird!

Just to follow up with my post last night about Jodi's mom (thanks for indulging me and the feedback even if you don't agree..I get it, it's all good). I attended the Scott Peterson trial as you know, many times. I had an almost identical encounter with Jackie Peterson in the bathroom. I can't say I felt anything remotely like what I have felt just on a gut level, just on a body level for lack of anything else, that I have with Jodi's mom. I felt like Jackie helped raise that monster. I felt like she was disordered herself and manipulative and frankly not a person who inspired compassion from me. His Dad though, that was kinda different.

I have not feared and despised a person on this Earth I don't think as much as I do Jodi Arias.

I don't agree with some of the mom/sis's behaviors...yet I just keep developing this deep compassion for her which isn't something my head can explain very well. That's all.

And on another note, I hope the camera didn't catch ME laughing yesterday in the pm session as I sat with my friend Jake and we giggle and giggle all the time..we are like two kids on the playground. It's dangerous for me to sit with him! (and we are both murder victims' siblings--kinda weird huh).

Anyway, again thanks for indulging my thoughts. I am actually really moved by what I felt yesterday , still. So I'll just do what I do with all of that and have a moment with some tears today. :seeya:

i think the heart is a better gauge than the cameras - imo

 

[weather_lady]

Thanks to Clue Finder 55 for reiterating the difference between direct and circumstantial evidence. I think it's one of the toughest things the American justice system expects juries to understand (and when juries fail to grasp it, we end up with the OJ's and Casey Anthony's of the world getting away with murder). I've never quite gotten over the shock of that juror from the CA trial saying flippantly to a news anchor, "well if we couldn't figure out exactly how she died, then how could we say it was murder?" Either she and the other jurors were very stupid, or the Court failed to administer a clear charge to them concerning circumstantial evidence.

I'm a lawyer working for a judge, and one of the pattern jury charges he commonly gives to explain the concept of circumstantial evidence is also weather-related: there are no windows in the courtroom, but if you are sitting in the jury box and you see people coming into the courtroom with raincoats on, and with boots and umbrellas that are all dripping wet, you are entitled to draw the reasonable inference that it is raining outside, and to find as a matter of fact, that it is, indeed, raining outside.

The proof in this case seems to require a lot less conjecture and inference than most. (How often does one have not only forensic evidence, but photographs inadvertently taken of the crime in progress?) I am hopeful that the jury in this case will draw the most reasonable and logical conclusions from the evidence before them, with regard to whether TA's death was premeditated.

 

[SCSam]

I feel sorry for Jodi's mom too. There are many people that just flat out don't believe in the death penalty. I can't imagine anyone wanting to hurt one of my kids, let alone kill them. It must be he!! for her.

I would guess she took the letters to the Enquirer because Jodi was able to convince her they were real. She went to Arizona to help her move and was also there the night before she got arrested. Jodi has been convincing her of these lies all of her life.

Even on this website we find a way to bring in some humor to try to maintain some sanity. I can't fathom that she is finding humor in this tragedy. I would think it more likely she, too, is trying to block out some of the horror. I can't imagine what kind of person could do this to another human being. It must be near impossible if that person is your child.

The ONLY person in that courtroom that I personally despise is Jodi. IMO, everyone else is there for their own reasons and does not support what transpired on June 4, 2008.

I would REALLY love to know what went on in that household when JA was growing up...I bet she was a manipulator even as a child

 

[Sydni]

Yes, to me there is one person ( I hope one) that is leaning to the Defense. Even back to the original jury questions there was one here or there that just seemed "off". Hopefully this person will be "off" the final panel. lease:

Don't worry everyone. Juan will 100% prove premeditation and all of this PTSD stuff won't mean a damn thing. IMO. I'm not a bit worried :great:

 

[Hopeful One]

I know we are trying to get a thread specifically for donations to the family but I don't see one yet. I hate to clutter this thread up with OT chatter but I didn't know where else to put it and I don't know who is organizing it to PM him/her.

ANYWAY count me in for a donation. Just let me know when and where. TIA

 

[Love Never Fails]

we kinda talked about this at HH I'd like to share my thoughts one I find it amazing that JAs parents are still married.. idk exact stats but typically disturbed individuals have split parents highly abusive etc from what we've heard ie lies spewed I don't see it.. I see parents who tried to keep a willful child to follow the rules

Idk if anyone would be sophisticated enough to handle what JA has done but I feel her mom is there because she feels she has to idk if out of unconditional love a mom for a child or obligated by others who feel she should. I also feel she has GUILT for what happened this was her child who did this I imagine if I was in shoes I'd think what could I done to stop this? Maybe we should have gotten her help years ago? How Did I not realize how disturbed she was etc. REMEMBER she did come to MESA to help JA load truck to me that's telling that her mom tried to help her also that TA & all her wonderful friends at her ward didn't help her just saying..(note goes to show JA lived in fantasy things weren't way she says).

Lastly I know we see mom & twin smile laugh giggle at times but WE DON'T KNOW WHY we think or feel it may be directed toward TAs family BUT I DON'T. I keep thinking back to day JA was on stand about how HER Mom beat her with wooden spoon the camera panned to mom & twin we saw twin look mom eyes wide like "can you believe she just outright lied" & mom kinda rolled her eyes almost as if she was silently saying here we go again with JAs lies & fantasy world..

I think everyone directly involved this case are victims because people like JA don't have friends or family they only have victims & pawns in their games! I know a woman like this who walked away from her child because I feel there was no use for anymore as the father had custody & the baby was no longer useful to keep the man in her life, source of support or able to be used for guilt get help from family. This is JMO wanted to share (ducking for cover lol)

PS last edit.. REMEMBER people like JA don't play by the same rules as we do... those closest to them like family tend to receive brunt of their behavior (save TA in this instance)..

Very good post. Thank you.

 

[3Monkees]

Jodi's Mom.....{sigh}. I truly feel for this woman, not only because she has an evil child but also because of my personal experience with someone quite similar to Jodi. I'm sure her Mom has been put through hell for the past 32 years. People with personality disorders have an amazing ability to make everyone around them feel like they are the crazy ones. Jodi's Mom may still be feeling this crazy tornado of feelings that some how she is indirectly responsible for Jodi's actions. I sincerely hope that her Mom is or will seek out counseling.

In a strange way, her Mom may really want Jody to be locked up for the rest of her life. Dealing with a personality disordered person is exhausting and it can completely consume you. At least with Jodi in prison, her family can have some peace. I know from experience that it is very difficult to come to terms with loving a PD person but also wanting something, anything to happen to allow you to break free from them.

Just my thoughts :blushing:

 

[Observer in AZ]

Jodi's Mom.....{sigh}. I truly feel for this woman, not only because she has an evil child but also because of my personal experience with someone quite similar to Jodi. I'm sure her Mom has been put through hell for the past 32 years. People with personality disorders have an amazing ability to make everyone around them feel like they are the crazy ones. Jodi's Mom may still be feeling this crazy tornado of feelings that some how she is indirectly responsible for Jodi's actions. I sincerely hope that her Mom is or will seek out counseling.

In a strange way, her Mom may really want Jody to be locked up for the rest of her life. Dealing with a personality disordered person is exhausting and it can completely consume you. At least with Jodi in prison, her family can have some peace. I know from experience that it is very difficult to come to terms with loving a PD person but also wanting something, anything to happen to allow you to break free from them.

Just my thoughts :blushing:

Good Post!...

BTW.. They don't call them "Crazy Makers" for nothing!:moo: