Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[Megnut]

I hear you. I do. But I think perhaps generally we underestimate how long DNA evidence can survive various crime scenes - despite washing, and vacuuming etc. An interesting link that may help:

Rolling Evidence: Forensic Files reveals how cars end up at crime scenes - Hagerty Media

All it takes is a tiny bit of DNA from either kid anywhere inside that vehicle and he's toast. There is no way a guy got into a car muddy and bloody and got home directly from the scene without any transfer of evidence from the scene to his car (mud, folliage bits etc). I'd believe he walked home, cleaned up and then went back for a car later - but even that would make me wonder how the heck he got from the scene to home without being seen as muddy and bloody by anyone else?

So, if RA did it, AND he drove himself home immediately after the murders? I'd believe DNA could have been found in the vehicle he drove. BUT - so far, we've heard NO dna links him to the crime??

Two things can simultaneously be true.

It can be true that there's no DNA from RA at the crime scene and there is DNA connecting RA with the crime scene.

Like you say, any DNA from either girl I'm his vehicle, on his clothing, back at his house, devastating for the defense.

Also and DNA from his world at the crime scene, also damning. Carpet fibers from his vehicle. Pet hair. Woman's hair, transferred from his home on his person and left accidentally at the crime scene.

That's exactly the sort of circumstantial evidence that becomes the totality of evidence.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Pondering...

As part of helping Niner with a few of her cases, I've followed well over a hundred cases here through the court system and I can't remember even one of them having an appellant atty take an interest like they have in this case. Now comes Habeas, which I had never even heard of until this week.

My question to those who have way more court experience than I: Have you ever seen a case where appellant attys have stepped in during the trial?

 

[photographer4]

We can't say what they did or will do in the future. The trial hasn't begun yet. That's when we'll learn what LE has done. Right now, its just gossip and guessing. JMO

There's also a legal process that LE has to follow in order to hire experts, have them examine evidence, etc. No, they're not allowed to have experts sign non-disclosure agreements. They're actually required to testify in court and explain their work and how they reached their conclusions. They're familiar with the process, the law, etc.


ETA:

For anyone wondering about which defense attorneys in Indiana are eligible to handle Death Penalty cases, here's a link to the Indiana Death Penalty Roster. Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi are not on this list.

https://ingov.sharepoint.com/sites/PDComPortal/Lists/2022%20Death%20Penalty%20List/Website%20View.aspx?env=WebViewList

From the recent SCOIN opinion regarding RA's attorneys, you will find that Rozzi has previous certification to handle death penalty cases. His certification may not be current, but he clearly has the experience for a case such as this.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:59c67bba-739f-4f74-a2a4-1b9dbba06746?fbclid=IwAR2_dZJELc9oe0DIGk2qr939Ljrc5KpvXXAoxoOwmjtW2UgvuFUpPDMCAeM_aem_AYwVByh4Idr3685wSsMLlgJu0CVpqyldbA2krN0M0AqEfvWK7Kv1BpN6ujpkDP95JaU

 

[susiQ]

I do believe he geniunely confessed to his wife. I also believe he had all intentions of begging for a deal but the defense has stars in their eyes. I think his defense has a bigger game they are playing. One they involves book deals and Netflix specials.

RSABBM
Do you also believe that Scremin and Lebrato had “stars in their eyes?” They too believe RA is innocent and they corroborated Rozzi and Baldwin’s statements concerning the unusual treatment RA was receiving in prison. I find it rather hard to believe that they would jump on R & B’s bandwagon if they believed R & B were lying about the discovery especially since they had access to the discovery as well.

I’ll venture a guess that if RA ends up with two other attorneys that believe he’s innocent, the same accusations will be levelled at them! JMHO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

RSABBM
Do you also believe that Scremin and Lebrato had “stars in their eyes?” They too believe RA is innocent and they corroborated Rozzi and Baldwin’s statements concerning the unusual treatment RA was receiving in prison. I find it rather hard to believe that they would jump on R & B’s bandwagon if they believed R & B were lying about the discovery especially since they had access to the discovery as well.

I’ll venture a guess that if RA ends up with two other attorneys that believe he’s innocent, the same accusations will be levelled at them! JMHO

No I do not believe Scremin and Lebrato had stars in their eyes or they would have been fighting to stay on the case as well. I was not debating the statements made about the conditions of the correctional center, I was talking about all the wild actions of the current defense team. I don't think S&L were on the case long enough to get a clear idea of what the evidence was or WHO their client is, much less if he is innocent.
I think it's normal for defense attorneys to claim their client is innocent, I do not think it's normal to go to the lengths that the current defense has gone to try to paint other parties guilty. They haven't made their client look any more innocent to me

 

[Betty P]

RSABBM
Do you also believe that Scremin and Lebrato had “stars in their eyes?” They too believe RA is innocent and they corroborated Rozzi and Baldwin’s statements concerning the unusual treatment RA was receiving in prison. I find it rather hard to believe that they would jump on R & B’s bandwagon if they believed R & B were lying about the discovery especially since they had access to the discovery as well.

I’ll venture a guess that if RA ends up with two other attorneys that believe he’s innocent, the same accusations will be levelled at them! JMHO

Unless the defendant is obviously and undeniably guilty, all defense attorneys will claim their client is innocent. That's what they do. Yes, any new public defenders assigned to RA will claim he is innocent. That doesn't mean he is.

 

[Betty P]

From the recent SCOIN opinion regarding RA's attorneys, you will find that Rozzi has previous certification to handle death penalty cases. His certification may not be current, but he clearly has the experience for a case such as this.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:59c67bba-739f-4f74-a2a4-1b9dbba06746?fbclid=IwAR2_dZJELc9oe0DIGk2qr939Ljrc5KpvXXAoxoOwmjtW2UgvuFUpPDMCAeM_aem_AYwVByh4Idr3685wSsMLlgJu0CVpqyldbA2krN0M0AqEfvWK7Kv1BpN6ujpkDP95JaU
View attachment 482650

The quote/argument comes from the disqualified defense attorneys rep.

If Rozzi wants to defend RA for capital charges, he'll need to take some classes to get recertified. Baldwin, who knows how much he has to catch up on. It means more delays for RA's trial, something they can't blame on the state.

 

[sunshineray]

Below is a quote from the link below. What could they have recorded all that time that would have no audio?

"Due to DVR program error discovered on 9-20-2017 all recordings up to February 20th.
2017, were recorded over. There is no detectible audio found on this drive."

2024 2/7 Def Motion to Dismiss-Destroyed Exculpatorymotion_to_dismiss_exculp.pdf

drive.google.com

Oh this was a DVR error (I thought they said VHS, my bad). My cable provider uses DVR's as the main box. In the last 10 years we've had to have our DVR replaced 4 times because it's program was corrupt...all the saved stuff was lost.

 

[sunshineray]

What is remarkable to me is that at the time Richard Allen is being interviewed in October 2022, he would have no way of knowing that Dulin, the conservation officer had lost the tape recording of the interview concerning when Richard Allen arrived and left the Monon High Bridge area. The fact that Richard Allen might have changed his story in October 2022 is also remarkable in that Richard Allen must have thought his previous tip report narrative would not be found, even if it was only written.

The testimony of the conservation officer, Dulin, is going to be damaging for the defense, especially combined with the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance video 1:27pm sighting of a car resembling a black Ford Focus heading towards the old CPS building. But since Dulin did not even record Richard Allen's last name correctly, people might be skeptical about what Dulin wrote about the timeline. It is strange how in this case Richard Allen provides so much of the evidence against him.

I didn't think it was Dulin that recorded RA's name wrong? Didn't that mixup happened in the transcribing of his report into the computer data system?

 

[Tealgrove]

I hear you. I do. But I think perhaps generally we underestimate how long DNA evidence can survive various crime scenes - despite washing, and vacuuming etc. An interesting link that may help:

Rolling Evidence: Forensic Files reveals how cars end up at crime scenes - Hagerty Media

All it takes is a tiny bit of DNA from either kid anywhere inside that vehicle and he's toast. There is no way a guy got into a car muddy and bloody and got home directly from the scene without any transfer of evidence from the scene to his car (mud, folliage bits etc). I'd believe he walked home, cleaned up and then went back for a car later - but even that would make me wonder how the heck he got from the scene to home without being seen as muddy and bloody by anyone else?

So, if RA did it, AND he drove himself home immediately after the murders? I'd believe DNA could have been found in the vehicle he drove. BUT - so far, we've heard NO dna links him to the crime??

The wording is no DNA links him to the crime scene not the crime.

That doesn’t mean that DNA of the girls wasn’t found in his home, his car, etc.

Some crafty wordsmithing there by the Defence.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

To play devils advocate here the car was searched 5 years 8 months later after the fact so no doubt that car had been washed and cleaned a millions time by that stage. Likely new carpets put in from wear and tear and so on.

It would be a lot more suspicious not finding something if it had been one or two months after the fact not nearly 6 years later.

MOO

New car carpet after just 6 years? I've never had new car carpet installed ever...with kids and pets

 

[Caylee Advocate]

ETA: I just checked. They're reporters. Not witnesses, attorneys, judges or LE, so I consider it rumor. I don't usually follow those Law and Crime, etc. tv shows, but after watching them handle this trial, I'm surprised at how unprofessional they are. Of course, it's a for-profit business, so...

Yet they are welcomed by Tricia as being accepted sources on here. That is, unless of course they were recently given the boot.

 

[sunshineray]

The bullet issue is one I've brought up more than once. The missing link of how bullet A became bullet Z.
Three pics of a bullet on/in the ground and one picture of a bullet in the lab. Nothing in between.
I've never claimed someone placed the bullet at the scene to frame RA.
I have questioned if the bullet could have been substituted between the scene and the lab.

After all, a lot of evidence can be lost between 2017 and 2022.

Substituted by whom? The bullet was collected at the scene. It was most certainly put in an evidence bag, sealed, signed and put in an evidence box in a secure storage area. Are you saying someone switch it out with another bullet that police cycled through RA's gun after the warrant was completed? Who would that be and why would that person do that?

 

[sunshineray]

I hear you. I do. But I think perhaps generally we underestimate how long DNA evidence can survive various crime scenes - despite washing, and vacuuming etc. An interesting link that may help:

Rolling Evidence: Forensic Files reveals how cars end up at crime scenes - Hagerty Media

All it takes is a tiny bit of DNA from either kid anywhere inside that vehicle and he's toast. There is no way a guy got into a car muddy and bloody and got home directly from the scene without any transfer of evidence from the scene to his car (mud, folliage bits etc). I'd believe he walked home, cleaned up and then went back for a car later - but even that would make me wonder how the heck he got from the scene to home without being seen as muddy and bloody by anyone else?

So, if RA did it, AND he drove himself home immediately after the murders? I'd believe DNA could have been found in the vehicle he drove. BUT - so far, we've heard NO dna links him to the crime??

If you look at google maps there's forested land, following Deer Creek, from the trails to his street.

 

[sunshineray]

This one shows it better.

 

[sunshineray]

Pondering...

As part of helping Niner with a few of her cases, I've followed well over a hundred cases here through the court system and I can't remember even one of them having an appellant atty take an interest like they have in this case. Now comes Habeas, which I had never even heard of until this week.

My question to those who have way more court experience than I: Have you ever seen a case where appellant attys have stepped in during the trial?

I never have.

 

[sunshineray]

I usually am in alignment with you, but I do veer off here in regards to RA’s possession of discovery.

Per D (motion to modify sakekeeping) and D (response) the discovery was dropped off on March 24th for RA’s review, but it was not given to RA before his confession on April 3rd

D claims as of April 3 he had not received the discovery they had left for him to review and NMc states Westville had made attempts to reach out to D for permission on how to handle.
Although NMc doesn’t verify that this evidence was withheld from RA until after his confession he also doesn’t state D’s timeline is untrue.
I think RA had been benefiting from the benefit of the doubt from guard and other prisoners that he may have been innocent. But on March 24th proof was now at the prison that he wasn’t. I think RA got very nervous that the proof would become general population knowledge.
I do believe he geniunely confessed to his wife. I also believe he had all intentions of begging for a deal but the defense has stars in their eyes. I think his defense has a bigger game they are playing. One they involves book deals and Netflix specials. The longer they drag this out and more sensational it becomes, then the more famous and successful they become. Doesn’t matter if they get their client off.
jMO

Emergency Motion to modify safekeeping ( section i) states
Attorneys for Mr.Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr.Allen on Friday, March 24th,2023, with intention of seeking their client’s cooperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3rd 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen.

Richard Allen's attorneys say his jail conditions are 'akin to that of prisoner of war'

States response to motion for emergency modification. Sections 10 & 11:

10. That it is true that the defense dropped of paperwork for the defendant to review and the facility did hang on to the paperwork until they heard from the defense attorneys as to how the paperwork should be handled.
11. The representatives from the facility attempted to contact defense counsel for several days in a row to determine if the paperwork should be given to the defendant in his cell or if the defendant should be brought to a different location to review the paperwork.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

At this point, I would nothing past RA's old/new attorneys, as far as their motivations.

 

[sunshineray]

Double post DBM

 

[photographer4]

The wording is no DNA links him to the crime scene not the crime.

That doesn’t mean that DNA of the girls wasn’t found in his home, his car, etc.

Some crafty wordsmithing there by the Defence.

MOO

Well, if they have it, I hope the prosecutions nails him! But if they do not, then we certainly must wonder why not.

 

[photographer4]

If you look at google maps there's forested land, following Deer Creek, from the trails to his street.
View attachment 482704

I had noticed that - but am not local - how difficult is the terrain from Crime Scene to his residence? Could he go in via a back door and not be seen if walked via the forest?