Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[FrostedGlass]

Respectfully, my wording is accurate. Not saying this was one of your theories - but accusing LE of planting bullets is absolutely among the conspiracy theories that have been discussed here.

We've always respected each other's opinions. From where I'm standing, it sounds condescending.
Hopefully, it wasn't intended that way.

 

[Betty P]

Barbara McDonald and Gray Hughes

I like Gray, but even he admits its a rumor, so not fact. It's kind of a learned discipline if you follow trials - keep your mind open and ignore anything the defense attorneys say before the trial. These days they see their job as trying to break as many rules as possible to taint jury pools and sway public opinion. The law allows them to be dishonest.

ETA: Thank you for the info. I follow a few cases and get confused on the initials.

 

[steeltowngirl]

We've always respected each other's opinions. From where I'm standing, it sounds condescending.
Hopefully, it wasn't intended that way.

When MSM is citing conspiracy theories surrounding the case, it is condescending to describe my post that attempted to list the conspiracies - and was not in reply or directed at any poster - as inaccurate.

One example from MSM:

DELPHI, Ind. – A ritualistic killing involving cultists. A conspiracy among prison guards.

Investigators fixated on a single suspect.

Those are among the stunning allegations made in court documents filed by defense attorneys on behalf of Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen.

Attorneys for Richard Allen want client moved, lay out alternative theory of ‘ritualistic’ murder

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Yes, his confession to his wife and mother came right after the Discovery he received copy of April 3 or 5th. He then knew exactly what the State had against him (reading it in black and white made a huge difference IMO) and I think he confessed to the 2 most important people in his life and then got angry and broke his tablet after his wife hung up on him.

JMO

I usually am in alignment with you, but I do veer off here in regards to RA’s possession of discovery.

Per D (motion to modify sakekeeping) and D (response) the discovery was dropped off on March 24th for RA’s review, but it was not given to RA before his confession on April 3rd

D claims as of April 3 he had not received the discovery they had left for him to review and NMc states Westville had made attempts to reach out to D for permission on how to handle.
Although NMc doesn’t verify that this evidence was withheld from RA until after his confession he also doesn’t state D’s timeline is untrue.
I think RA had been benefiting from the benefit of the doubt from guard and other prisoners that he may have been innocent. But on March 24th proof was now at the prison that he wasn’t. I think RA got very nervous that the proof would become general population knowledge.
I do believe he geniunely confessed to his wife. I also believe he had all intentions of begging for a deal but the defense has stars in their eyes. I think his defense has a bigger game they are playing. One they involves book deals and Netflix specials. The longer they drag this out and more sensational it becomes, then the more famous and successful they become. Doesn’t matter if they get their client off.
jMO

Emergency Motion to modify safekeeping ( section i) states
Attorneys for Mr.Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr.Allen on Friday, March 24th,2023, with intention of seeking their client’s cooperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3rd 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen.

Richard Allen's attorneys say his jail conditions are 'akin to that of prisoner of war'

States response to motion for emergency modification. Sections 10 & 11:

10. That it is true that the defense dropped of paperwork for the defendant to review and the facility did hang on to the paperwork until they heard from the defense attorneys as to how the paperwork should be handled.
11. The representatives from the facility attempted to contact defense counsel for several days in a row to determine if the paperwork should be given to the defendant in his cell or if the defendant should be brought to a different location to review the paperwork.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

 

[steeltowngirl]

The bullet issue is one I've brought up more than once. The missing link of how bullet A became bullet Z.
Three pics of a bullet on/in the ground and one picture of a bullet in the lab. Nothing in between.
I've never claimed someone placed the bullet at the scene to frame RA.
I have questioned if the bullet could have been substituted between the scene and the lab.

After all, a lot of evidence can be lost between 2017 and 2022.

Another poster (not you) suggested the bullet was planted. I searched the thread, apparently the post has since been deleted. It was back around post #413, or between #520 - 523.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I usually am in alignment with you, but I do veer off here in regards to RA’s possession of discovery.

Per D (motion to modify sakekeeping) and D (response) the discovery was dropped off on March 24th for RA’s review, but it was not given to RA before his confession on April 3rd

D claims as of April 3 he had not received the discovery they had left for him to review and NMc states Westville had made attempts to reach out to D for permission on how to handle.
Although NMc doesn’t verify that this evidence was withheld from RA until after his confession he also doesn’t state D’s timeline is untrue.
I think RA had been benefiting from the benefit of the doubt from guard and other prisoners that he may have been innocent. But on March 24th proof was now at the prison that he wasn’t. I think RA got very nervous that the proof would become general population knowledge.
I do believe he geniunely confessed to his wife. I also believe he had all intentions of begging for a deal but the defense has stars in their eyes. I think his defense has a bigger game they are playing. One they involves book deals and Netflix specials. The longer they drag this out and more sensational it becomes, then the more famous and successful they become. Doesn’t matter if they get their client off.
jMO

Emergency Motion to modify safekeeping ( section i) states
Attorneys for Mr.Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr.Allen on Friday, March 24th,2023, with intention of seeking their client’s cooperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3rd 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen.

Richard Allen's attorneys say his jail conditions are 'akin to that of prisoner of war'

States response to motion for emergency modification. Sections 10 & 11:

10. That it is true that the defense dropped of paperwork for the defendant to review and the facility did hang on to the paperwork until they heard from the defense attorneys as to how the paperwork should be handled.
11. The representatives from the facility attempted to contact defense counsel for several days in a row to determine if the paperwork should be given to the defendant in his cell or if the defendant should be brought to a different location to review the paperwork.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Thanks for the correction CS, I always appreciate it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Does this also mean that the professor was let to view the crime scene photos of Abby and Libby?

Yes, I think logic would dictate that if an expert was called to investigate a cult angle including the CS runes and etc. they would have had to have shared the photos and documents.

jmo

 

[Salah11]

Just so I can understand this theory..

Why would LE Plant a bullet on the 14th Feb 2017 and then wait until the 26th October 2022 to Frame the person for this bullet?


I mean for conspiracy theories this one is really far out there.

Moooooo

 

[steeltowngirl]

Why would LE Plant a bullet on the 14th Feb 2017 and then wait until the 26th October 2022 to Frame the person for this bullet?


I mean for conspiracy theories this one is really far out there.

Moooooo

Before this theory grows legs, there has been no MSM or even a still-standing post in the thread that suggests LE planted a bullet.

I recall a poster hinted at that, but it’s been deleted, so I hereby retract it as on the list of potential conspiracy theories that have been noted.

Hope that helps.

 

[photographer4]

I love the footnote 162 that Ford didn't make a 1965 Comet but Mercury did. This is what I refer to when I say the Defense states something as fact in the Memo then footnotes that it really isn't actually correct. I'll wait for BB to explain in her own words what she saw.
View attachment 482522
classiccars.com

MOO

I think what they were highlighting was their awareness that Ford didn't make a '65 Comet, Mercury did. I do not see how they were trying to mislead anyone by quoting what the witness said, and then making it clear that she erred in stating Ford made the Comet.

 

[photographer4]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
One of his current lawyers IS certified as a DP Attorney.

 

[susiQ]

I love the footnote 162 that Ford didn't make a 1965 Comet but Mercury did. This is what I refer to when I say the Defense states something as fact in the Memo then footnotes that it really isn't actually correct. I'll wait for BB to explain in her own words what she saw.
View attachment 482522
classiccars.com

MOO

Easy mistake for BB to make. Mercury was a division of the Ford Motor company.

Mercury (automobile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[photographer4]

The SCOIN Justices asked if they appointed R&B back to counsel could that be an appealable issue during the argument. RA's attorney said it could have been, but RA will waive the right to appeal based on that if R&B are reinstated.

That old STW that RA has signed but not dated, the one D has been carrying around since August has not made it to filing as of yet. I don't expect to see it any time soon.

Here's a link to the argument: It starts around the 26:00 mark

JMO

Why would they now file that considering they just got handed back the case after several months off of it, and, "new and voluminous" (B&R quote from a recent filing) of disclosure from the prosecution?

 

[photographer4]

Since I just answered this same question 2 days ago, it's right at my fingertips.
CourtTV Barbara MacDonald
Sticks were not collected as evidence until several weeks later.

If anyone knows, I'm merely curious - by the time they went back to get the sticks etc, had they already released the property back to RL? If so, did they need a warrant to be back on his property (or perhaps had to get consent from him to be there / collect the items)? It will be interesting to know WHY they didn't collect these, and WHICH ones they left there! If they left critical evidence behind (it wouldn't be the first time I've heard of this happening in in a case), then how are they CERTAIN they collected *all* the evidence and the CORRECT sticks at that? Are there photos detailing where they were upon LE arrival? Video? Photos and video to show how they left the scene if they released the property back to RL? This is nuts.

 

[Salah11]

Before this theory grows legs, there has been no MSM or even a still-standing post in the thread that suggests LE planted a bullet.

I recall a poster hinted at that, but it’s been deleted, so I hereby retract it as on the list of potential conspiracy theories that have been noted.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for doing due diligence

 

[FrostedGlass]

If anyone knows, I'm merely curious - by the time they went back to get the sticks etc, had they already released the property back to RL? If so, did they need a warrant to be back on his property (or perhaps had to get consent from him to be there / collect the items)? It will be interesting to know WHY they didn't collect these, and WHICH ones they left there! If they left critical evidence behind (it wouldn't be the first time I've heard of this happening in in a case), then how are they CERTAIN they collected *all* the evidence and the CORRECT sticks at that? Are there photos detailing where they were upon LE arrival? Video? Photos and video to show how they left the scene if they released the property back to RL? This is nuts.

I'm not sure when they turned RL's property back to him; I'm guessing it was a few days later. I remember him saying they had his property all lit up.

B Mac said they thought they were just sticks originally. They didn't take the tree bark, either.

There almost has to be a whole series of photos taken at the scene that day before anything was disturbed.
I assume the photos were taken by one photographer with one camera.
What triggered LE to come back for the sticks several weeks later is the question.

 

[photographer4]

Yes, his confession to his wife and mother came right after the Discovery he received copy of April 3 or 5th. He then knew exactly what the State had against him (reading it in black and white made a huge difference IMO) and I think he confessed to the 2 most important people in his life and then got angry and broke his tablet after his wife hung up on him.

JMO

What was in the disclosure then? Any chance he read / learned something in it that only the killer would have known, and was then able to recite whatever he'd learned to his mother or wife? That can happen - that police inadvertently provide information to a suspect that is later used as part of a confession, or admission of guilt, or ends up appearing "incriminating".

 

[photographer4]

Because he's a liar?

Saw a group of girls, intentionally vague.

Was looking at his phone, was looking a fish, was following the stock ticker.

Was there that day, didn't see A and L.

To answer your question, why did he only see three if there were four? Selective truth telling.

If he left at 3:30, how come no one saw him leave?

If he's not BG, how come HE didn't see a BG?

RA's got problems with his story.

JMO

Was anyone else there at 3:30 who MIGHT have seen (anyone) else leave? Via the route the girls entered the trails I mean - was anyone parked there at that time? Anyone parked there when DG arrived? Anyone aside FSG wandering about who should have reasonably seen RA leave if he went back the way the trail started where he saw the lady and the three girl witnesses?

 

[photographer4]

Thank you for linking that, it also cleared up the rumor that BMcD had CS photos, she had drawings showing the alleged stick placement, just lines, not even with a drawing showing a body CourtTV added those @ 11:20 mark. She does say that LE didn't collect the sticks at that time.

MOO

She said they didn't collected them until "weeks later". Unbelievable!!

 

[sunshineray]

Apologies. It was other specific exculpatory interviews allegedly recorded over/lost per the new motions, not RA’s confessions.

Sources:

'Recorded over' | Richard Allen's attorneys claim key evidence destroyed in Delphi murders case

The defense claims that a week's worth of police interview recordings, from right after the 2017 killings, were destroyed.

www.wthr.com

MOTION TO DISMISS FOR DESTROYING EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE

2024 2/7 Def Motion to Dismiss-Destroyed Exculpatorymotion_to_dismiss_exculp.pdf

drive.google.com

MEMORANDUM OF LAW IN SUPPORT OF DISMISSAL

2024 2/7 DefMemoSupportDismissal.pdf

drive.google.com

IMO, this was mostly done by someone popping in a tape they thought was empty, it wasn't and something got taped over it. The original recording was never missed...until it was looked for and all heck broke loose, depending on what was originally on that tape. IDK if most here are old enough to have lived with VHS but I've done and seen others do this tape over. It was pretty common. Not an excuse, just a human explanation. I'm thinking too the interview was not considered very important because the alibi checked out. JMO