Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[MassGuy]

Now that we're nearing the two-year mark since he was arrested, I wonder, beyond sexual motivation, what brought Richard Allen to this moment. I keep flipping back and forth that this was planned vs this was a chance encounter.

I’m convinced it was chance. There’s just no way he could have known they’d be there, or be able to intercept them the way he did if he had known.

He came prepared to hunt, and I think the girls were perfect targets.

What brought him there? Not that this guy is a serial killer, but for guys like that there’s generally a precipitating stressor; a major negative life event.

So a fight with a significant other, money issues, job troubles.

So he may have been worked up that day or something, which is why he chose that day to go out and look for a victim.

I would love to know what his devices have to say in general. That may indicate if he’s attracted to females of a certain (young) age or not.

It’s possible he would have left if he didn’t come across an appropriate target, or would have attacked any female he found suitable.

 

[m00c0w]

Did the host say where the info came from? Was it testimony at trial?

She says it was testimony at trial, I guess. But she gets it 100% wrong.

"He pinky swears that at the time they went to do this interview, the plan was not to arrest Richard Allen, and so they did not read him his Miranda warning. They didn't advise him of his rights. Let me repeat that - they didn't advise him of his rights."

She then glares at the camera in a disbelieving manner.

Not only did he state they read RA his Miranda warning, but it actually became a point of contention because it was in the first portion of the interview that was not recorded.

Why would Baldwin be grilling Holeman about his Miranda warning not being recorded if Holeman claimed he never Mirandized RA?

What's even more amazing to me is about an hour later, she talks about that very interaction with Baldwin and scoffs at how convenient it is that the portion of the video where he was advised of his rights is missing.

"But lo and behold, that part of the interview where Lt. Holeman says he reminded Mr. Allen of his rights is missing from the video."

<modsnip - discussing the source rather than the content>


All my opinion.

 

[MiniMoo]

I cannot even imagine one person being able to commit this crime on their own, let alone someone under the influence of alcohol. IMO

Especially as some have had to crawl across it due to how dangerous it looked and all that.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[iamshadow21]

She says it was testimony at trial, I guess. But she gets it 100% wrong.

"He pinky swears that at the time they went to do this interview, the plan was not to arrest Richard Allen, and so they did not read him his Miranda warning. They didn't advise him of his rights. Let me repeat that - they didn't advise him of his rights."

She then glares at the camera in a disbelieving manner.

Not only did he state they read RA his Miranda warning, but it actually became a point of contention because it was in the first portion of the interview that was not recorded.

Why would Baldwin be grilling Holeman about his Miranda warning not being recorded if Holeman claimed he never Mirandized RA?

What's even more amazing to me is about an hour later, she talks about that very interaction with Baldwin and scoffs at how convenient it is that the portion of the video where he was advised of his rights is missing.

"But lo and behold, that part of the interview where Lt. Holeman says he reminded Mr. Allen of his rights is missing from the video."

<modsnip - discussing the source rather than the content>

All my opinion.

Well, when they Miranda you you sign the piece of paper, so we don't just have to take anyone's word for it.

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

As far as I know, that was an allegation made by Baldwin, not an admission by SC.

Baldwin pointed out that Carbaugh had initially told police the man she saw wore a tan coat, but she later changed her mind after she saw the now-infamous video of the "Bridge Guy," who was seen wearing a blue jacket. Carbaugh said she might have thought the coat was tan because he was covered in mud.

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

The clear issue with the allegation, as I pointed out upthread, is that the whole reason she says she went to police initially is because she recognized the man when police released the photos of BG. Which came from the video. Which was released weeks before she gave her initial report...

JMO

That is why LE release photos - to ask if anyone seen that person in the area of the crime.

BTW, "BG" is clearly wearing a brown hoodie under his jacket. Technically tan is a light shade of brown.

 

[shonyakay]

Glad the jury will see this interrogation tape next week. Although, it's not the full thing as parts were "mysteriously" cut out...

Threatening a suspect with the DP as well in an interrogation, um.

They will also see RA threaten Holeman.

 

[m00c0w]

Well, when they Miranda you you sign the piece of paper, so we don't just have to take anyone's word for it.

MOO

This entire thing was litigated to death pre-trial when the defense tried to get the interview suppressed because the video didn't contain the Miranda warning.

 

[sunshineray]

She's at the trial.

She's talking about what she heard today from her meticulous note taking.

From Holeman's testimony? Who's testimony said RA wasn't read his MR before questioning?

 

[MiniMoo]

I can't stand that we are getting the information about the trial from people who profit off of clicks. The more dramatic the post, the more attention it gets. We should be getting factual reporting, not dramatics and personal opinion. My opinion, only.

I don't mind getting perspectives from attorneys that are actually there every day and attending the trial plus they are Defense attorneys.

There is one on the news that has worked on both sides (P and D) throughout her career so I like listening to her as well.

It isn't like we can see it live or anything.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[ClearAhead]

She's at the trial.

She's talking about what she heard today from her meticulous note taking.

That’s odd. TMS claimed Holeman was asked the question and he explained Miranda wasn’t required, RA agreed to speak with him and was free to leave any time had he wanted to. After the interview LE decided to arrest him. Given some of RA’s responses, the reason may’ve been for his own well-being.

ETA RA and his wife were at the police station because they came to pick up their car.

 

[sunshineray]

I can't find it now but somewhere earlier here someone posted a motion I think from the defense to try and get the 2nd interview/interrogation out and it says that there is no recording of the Miranda rights and the defense didn't receive the Miranda form that im presuming RA would sign after being Mirandized? I just saw it when I was trying to catch up on break so I might be wrong.

Ohhh ok, not from testimony. Thank you, just from another defense filing, which I have no confidence in at all, that it's the truth. MO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Surely one would be enough, but 60?!?

That really doesn't seem right as it's too excessive.

JMO MOO JMT

Agreed- it’s an absurdly high number- moo

 

[scapa]

I can't stand that we are getting the information about the trial from people who profit off of clicks. The more dramatic the post, the more attention it gets. We should be getting factual reporting, not dramatics and personal opinion. My opinion, only.

Agree.

There's something (for me) consistently off-putting about the territoriality, drama and often lack even of a pretence of serious or non-biased analysis -- and the inevitable pauses to thank Listener X or Viewer Q for slipping a few quid into the pot, broken up by the just as inevitable breaks for the Hosting Entity to wibble on about how Prepared Meal Service Y has transformed their busy lives by making it so easy and delicious -- and economical! -- to whip up a 6 minute supper that kids and even that notoriously picky partner just... love!!!

Before returning to piously remind us that, really, this is a horrific case about the cruel kidnapping and brutal murder of two extraordinary friends -- and can we please make sure to smash that subscribe button, OMG thx!

I don't do 'tubers and don't love many podcasts. But the better ones tend to be backwards-focused, examining carefully and sensitively some complex set of events. They do research. They take time.

I don't think present-tense serious crime and for-profit casting/ tubing really work for me. The balance is too fine, and too few 'casters manage it. Often feels like we're revolving backwards to the days of the Hearst yellow press and early UK/ Elsewhere tabloids, which never truly went away but have now found new media to work with.

But info has to come from somewhere, especially in a case this infamous. So...

/endrant

Get some rest, all. Hopefully more testimony brings more and better answers.

 

[oviedo]

That alcoholic thing is interesting. I’ve always believed the killer was under the influence because of how insanely risky it was. I could just imagine BG strolling along with a flask.

And I don’t buy that reasoning. You may be devastated by all of that, but your freedom takes precedence. I believe that is a guilty conscience.

Then the confessions followed.

This is what I thought 5 years ago. Wrong about history of petty crimes and drug abuse, but I did think he had to have been under the influence.


Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91

Wow @MassGuy thats creepy and foreshadowing - I’ve always thought alcohol was involved
JMO

 

[rez125]

That’s odd. TMS claimed Holeman was asked the question and he explained Miranda wasn’t required, RA agreed to speak with him and was free to leave any time had he wanted to. After the interview LE decided to arrest him. Given some of RA’s responses, the reason may’ve been for his own well-being.

Miranda is required at any point that somebody may say something that may incriminate them.

It should be used as often as possible rather than not.

Do you believe a suspect who is being told multiple times they killed two children, that they're going to seek the DP, that they have vision with a positive ID of them at the crime scene really thinks they're just "free to leave".

This Lt was an absolute debacle for the State today and rightly so.

To your edit: Andrea explained exactly why you don't go and pick up property the police have taken, you give permission for someone else to go and pick it up.

The result in this case was that train wreck of an interrogation.

 

[m00c0w]

Miranda is required at any point that somebody may say something that may incriminate them.

It should be used as often as possible rather than not.

Do you believe a suspect who is being told multiple times they killed two children, that they're going to seek the DP, that they have vision with a positive ID of them at the crime scene really thinks they're just "free to leave".

This Lt was an absolute debacle for the State today and rightly so.

BBM

This is just not true. Spontaneous utterances, non-custodial interviews, there are a ton of exceptions. Is it a good idea? Sure. But it's not required in many, many circumstances. This is very well-known and settled case law.

Exceptions to Miranda

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[ClearAhead]

This entire thing was litigated to death pre-trial when the defense tried to get the interview suppressed because the video didn't contain the Miranda warning.

That’s right, this isn’t anything new. The D withdrew their motion to
suppress this interview. No reason was given. That wouldn’t have happened if it was conducted improperly. So here’s the interview unsuppressed and we’re supposed to believe it reflects poorly on the P when it was originally the D who didn’t want it to see the light of day?

ETA. Is Rozzi’s tendency to misstate evidence contagious to his youtube supporters?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I can't stand that we are getting the information about the trial from people who profit off of clicks. The more dramatic the post, the more attention it gets. We should be getting factual reporting, not dramatics and personal opinion. My opinion, only.

The important thing is we only use approved sources. I don't like the ones who make a living from clicks so I don't post their content.
With that said, it's good to have a choice.

 

[ClearAhead]

Miranda is required at any point that somebody may say something that may incriminate them.

It should be used as often as possible rather than not.

Do you believe a suspect who is being told multiple times they killed two children, that they're going to seek the DP, that they have vision with a positive ID of them at the crime scene really thinks they're just "free to leave".

This Lt was an absolute debacle for the State today and rightly so.

To your edit: Andrea explained exactly why you don't go and pick up property the police have taken, you give permission for someone else to go and pick it up.

The result in this case was that train wreck of an interrogation.

During that same interview RA informed his wife if she got a lawyer she could leave, so he knew both of them could’ve left had he not literally asked to be arrested.

The reason the interview isn’t suppressed is because there’s no grounds on which to suppress it. Absolutely no point in debating what’s already been determined.

 

[m00c0w]

That’s odd. TMS claimed Holeman was asked the question and he explained Miranda wasn’t required, RA agreed to speak with him and was free to leave any time had he wanted to. After the interview LE decided to arrest him. Given some of RA’s responses, the reason may’ve been for his own well-being.

ETA RA and his wife were at the police station because they came to pick up their car.

I guess I'm confused, because at around 19:00 they state that RA was advised of his rights during the missing portion of the video. There were witnesses to the interview that confirm his rights were read. Around 48:30, they talk again about the missing portion of the video and how Miranda was supposed to have happened during that missing portion.

JMO