VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

[RemarkableYou]

Agree. Great point.

It isn't just about transparency (even if it ought to be) -- it's also about the power of for-profit influencers who can peddle alternative facts and be ambassadors for any number of narratives, however absurd. We know the power of disinformation to shift minds and distort critical truths -- even on a national scale.

You need no journalistic, legal or forensic training for these occupations (though some of course have it), just the ability to find and retain followers. And if you're wrong? Who cares? Nothing depends on it, and you're not liable for anything, as a "content creator." As we know it can pay just as well, or better, to be wrong as it does to be right.

Fortunately in this case I think we've got a strong jury. But the story may not end with their verdict.

True, thank goodness 3 of the youtubers are lawyers. Lay people only have their own opinions and views.

 

[Inthedetails]

I’ve definitely seen a few folks that seem to be knowledgeable, but absolutely manipulate the facts to support whatever fanfic they have going on in their heads. Outright, blatant mistruths from attorneys covering this case as a hobby. It’s actually quite bizarre until you realize it’s all about the dollars and they don’t actually care about RA.

JMO

Yep.

jmo

 

[getthefax]

I have no doubt he’s guilty, but to say I’m concerned that he’ll be found not guilty is an understatement.

This investigation was terrible. They should have been on to Allen 5 years prior, instead of chasing around multiple other suspects.

The interrogation was terrible, as it was a fruitless effort to chase a home run, which small ball would have likely paid greater dividends.

The conditions he was kept in did the prosecution no favors in regards to proving the credibility of those confessions.

There are things I wanted to hear from the prosecution that we did not hear (more about Allen’s phone and that geofence).

Witness testimony helped the prosecution as much as it may have helped the defense.

I will always believe that if Allen is found not guilty, it isn’t because he didn’t do it.

“Can we find the real killer now?”

“Best I can do is release an unhinged monster onto the streets and we’ll just see what happens.”

Very well put.

 

[sunshineray]

It's certainly surprising that he would be so spooked off by a van during the commission of the crime that he would decide not to sexually assault them and receive the physical gratification that the state indicates is his motive, but he would take time to drag and arrange branches on the deceased.

It's also quite strange that he would say he was trying to cover them up with those branches, because, per the drawings we have seen in the media, there were very few sticks and they were quite obviously "arranged" vs haphazardly placed. It also doesn't make sense that he wouldn't use the easily available dead foliage around, but rather waste even more time collecting tree branches that range in size and weight.

After seeing the area DTH to the right, the woods its almost desolate looking, not very thick. If he had them there I can see how he'd get spooked if someone drove by. The cover was better on the other side

 

[WildHuncher]

Question: if there's a mistrial/hung jury, is RA immediately released from custody? Or do they keep him locked up while they go for a second trial?

At 4 million for this try, and no new avenues to explore for evidence, I suspect he walks at once.

 

[mainemom376]

I am honestly surprised it has been this long. JMO

 

[justtrish]

I have no doubt he’s guilty, but to say I’m concerned that he’ll be found not guilty is an understatement.

This investigation was terrible. They should have been on to Allen 5 years prior, instead of chasing around multiple other suspects.

The interrogation was terrible, as it was a fruitless effort to chase a home run, which small ball would have likely paid greater dividends.

The conditions he was kept in did the prosecution no favors in regards to proving the credibility of those confessions.

There are things I wanted to hear from the prosecution that we did not hear (more about Allen’s phone and that geofence).

Witness testimony helped the prosecution as much as it may have helped the defense.

I will always believe that if Allen is found not guilty, it isn’t because he didn’t do it.

“Can we find the real killer now?”

“Best I can do is release an unhinged monster onto the streets and we’ll just see what happens.”

I agree on many points you make.

I am not so sure on the investigation being terrible.

If that tip wasn't misfiled sure this would have been over quickly and all the other stuff never would have happened. BUT who is at fault for that tip being misfiled? I think DD writing "who are the 3 girls" on there likely was the focus of whoever labeled it as cleared. So if they knew who the 3 girls were and didn't read the rest of that tip narrative, then i doubt they had any idea this was a man there during the time of the killing.

We have a killer that didn't leave DNA or fingerprints. He also was not recognized by anyone that saw him so the girls didn't recognize him to say hey that is RA.. and same with BB and SC. So what was LE left with other than RA calling in? If he didn't do that, he wouldn't be on trial right now and that isn't any fault of LE because how can they find someone that left zero clues.. well that bullet and his car on video, but they can't check every house in Delphi for a gun that left the bullet.

I've just seen some suggesting that if RA didn't call in he wouldn't be caught and that is likely true, but that doesn't mean LE didn't do their job. It means he would have gotten away with it.

I think they worked their butts off trying to find this killer and not knowing that tip was there all along doesn't mean that they did a terrible job. I think they ran down every lead they could and ruled out so many people.. 10,000s of tips.. And interviews being erased doesn't mean they did a terrible job, they did their job interviewing these people AND ruling them out. The D only wants to say that was bad because they want to blame those people, but LE did their due diligence trying to find this guy.

 

[MassGuy]

It's certainly surprising that he would be so spooked off by a van during the commission of the crime that he would decide not to sexually assault them and receive the physical gratification that the state indicates is his motive, but he would take time to drag and arrange branches on the deceased.

It's also quite strange that he would say he was trying to cover them up with those branches, because, per the drawings we have seen in the media, there were very few sticks and they were quite obviously "arranged" vs haphazardly placed. It also doesn't make sense that he wouldn't use the easily available dead foliage around, but rather waste even more time collecting tree branches that range in size and weight.

You’re talking about a mentally ill man, admittedly under the influence of alcohol. A man who based on historical precedent, would have had a rich fantasy life. The crime scene can tell you a bit about what happened, but not why it happened or what the offender was thinking.

Not being able to achieve your motive does not mean that such a motive does not exist. A disruption explains this.

 

[rickstyles84]

I am honestly surprised it has been this long. JMO

Same. The longer it goes the less I have faith in a guilty verdict unfortunately.

 

[seestr8]

What’s the general consensus regarding the elevation change from the Apple Health data? I thought the Defense scored a huge point when they noted out that the distance from the bridge to the river is 60’ but the data only showed an elevation change of 20’ (which is roughly the distance from the bridge to the driveway). MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

Same. The longer it goes the less I have faith in a guilty verdict unfortunately.

I'm sure they are going through all the requirements needed for a guilty verdict, methodically and slowly. That takes time. He's facing more than murder, but also murder while kidnapping. Each charge has it's own criteria and I bet they are matching the criteria to the evidence, bit by bit.

jmo

 

[MassGuy]

I agree on many points you make.

I am not so sure on the investigation being terrible.

If that tip wasn't misfiled sure this would have been over quickly and all the other stuff never would have happened. BUT who is at fault for that tip being misfiled? I think DD writing "who are the 3 girls" on there likely was the focus of whoever labeled it as cleared. So if they knew who the 3 girls were and didn't read the rest of that tip narrative, then i doubt they had any idea this was a man there during the time of the killing.

We have a killer that didn't leave DNA or fingerprints. He also was not recognized by anyone that saw him so the girls didn't recognize him to say hey that is RA.. and same with BB and SC. So what was LE left with other than RA calling in? If he didn't do that, he wouldn't be on trial right now and that isn't any fault of LE because how can they find someone that left zero clues.. well that bullet and his car on video, but they can't check every house in Delphi for a gun that left the bullet.

I've just seen some suggesting that if RA didn't call in he wouldn't be caught and that is likely true, but that doesn't mean LE didn't do their job. It means he would have gotten away with it.

I think they worked their butts off trying to find this killer and not knowing that tip was there all along doesn't mean that they did a terrible job. I think they ran down every lead they could and ruled out so many people.. 10,000s of tips.. And interviews being erased doesn't mean they did a terrible job, they did their job interviewing these people AND ruling them out. The D only wants to say that was bad because they want to blame those people, but LE did their due diligence trying to find this guy.

Two things can be true, the investigation was lacking and they are still able to prove their case.

One man says he was there that day during the specific time in question.

One man other people saw that day.

One man who admitted to (almost certainly) seeing the people who saw him.

One man who was admittedly dressed as BG.

One man whose car was caught on camera.

One man whose phone was suspiciously not caught up in the geofence despite his claims that he was using it.

One man admitted to drinking alcohol, going to the bridge, spotting the girls, following them, planning on raping them, getting disrupted,"cutting their necks," making sure they were dead, and covering them with sticks.

One man owned a .40 caliber handgun that matched the unspent cartridge found between the bodies.

One man confessed over and over.

One man said he stole a boxcutter from work, used it in the murders, and disposed of it in a CVS dumpster.

One man whose mental health declined after the murders.

One man who conveniently changed his timeline after he knew he was a suspect.

One man who ticks practically every box in regards to someone who has historically committed this type of crime (suicidal, substance abuse, depression, admittedly under the influence at the time of the crime).

They’ll never find a better suspect than that.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I have no doubt he’s guilty, but to say I’m concerned that he’ll be found not guilty is an understatement.

This investigation was terrible. They should have been on to Allen 5 years prior, instead of chasing around multiple other suspects.

The interrogation was terrible, as it was a fruitless effort to chase a home run, which small ball would have likely paid greater dividends.

The conditions he was kept in did the prosecution no favors in regards to proving the credibility of those confessions.

There are things I wanted to hear from the prosecution that we did not hear (more about Allen’s phone and that geofence).

Witness testimony helped the prosecution as much as it may have helped the defense.

I will always believe that if Allen is found not guilty, it isn’t because he didn’t do it.

“Can we find the real killer now?”

“Best I can do is release an unhinged monster onto the streets and we’ll just see what happens.”

Will LE continue investigating the case if he is found not guilty?

 

[SouthEnd]

What’s the general consensus regarding the elevation change from the Apple Health data? I thought the Defense scored a huge point when they noted out that the distance from the bridge to the river is 60’ but the data only showed an elevation change of 20’ (which is roughly the distance from the bridge to the driveway). MOO

Elevation Tracker for iPhone

Real-time elevation profiles for the Apple iPhone.

www.elevationtracker.com

Elevation is notoriously unreliable on phones/iphones. It sorta tries to triangulate, sometimes based on angle of steps and speed, but if it is not stairs it gets ridiculously confused.

All MOO

 

[Mitch1]

Y’all better strap in because we gonna be here a while! IMO of course

 

[photographer4]

Timestamp 06:45

If anyone had any doubts as to what side Lawyer Lee is batting for, they are clustered with BM from DD and AB. No opinions from me, just good to see birds of a feather flocking together. I am sure BM will find some time to tweet something fiery that gets even more pro-DT fans to write even more terrible signs and display them in front of the victims' families.

All MOO, but I have no compassion for their rhetoric.

We don't even know how the family might be feeling about this trial, do we? Have they spoken to the media? For all we know, they may also be worried about a miscarriage of justice if the verdict does not go how they hope. They could be feeling so many different things and diff ways. My hearts goes to each of them. There is no easy answer here.

 

[dkaras]

If he gets released he'll very likely eat a bullet before any new trial can happen. He is a suicide just looking for a little unsupervised time. Or worse, he takes more with him. Of course, that's just my view from the farm.

I feel the same. Regardless of guilty, not guilty or hung, I think he'll commit suicide. I truly hope not, but I think the odds are.

 

[SouthEnd]

Will LE continue investigating the case if he is found not guilty?

I can say, with confidence, no. There is no other person they can place in that place at that time. Maybe in 40 years time they will re-test the DNA, see if there is enough material for a match.

All MOO

 

[Warwick7]

under the bridge like that on or near that gravel road is a terrible place to try that.

I suspect he was taking them under the bridge to the other creek that is a tributary.

That gravel road is 1/2 mile before you get to the bridge. You can hear vehicles driving in gravel a long way away. If they guy in the van was driving at 25 mph, then BG only had maybe 72 seconds (calculated) to head to the creek/hide behind trees.

25 mph = 132,000 ft/hr

5280 ft/mile / 2 = 2640 ft

2640/132000 = .02 hours = 1.2 minutes = 72 seconds

That is plenty of time to get away and out of sights and across the creek IMHO.

Either way, the first spot would have been before they went across the creek wherever that spot was.

 

[SouthEnd]

We don't even know how the family might be feeling about this trial, do we? Have they spoken to the media? For all we know, they may also be worried about a miscarriage of justice if the verdict does not go how they hope. They could be feeling so many different things and diff ways. My hearts goes to each of them. There is no easy answer here.

You can hear in all the coverage, from Laura and Barbara McDonald, which members of the press the families are happy to talk to and sit near. (Spoilers: They are helping the Murder Sheet write a book. Not Lawyer Lee, and not Bob Motta.)

All MOO

EDIT: It is not something that gives me pleasure, but I believe it is disingenuous to not acknowledge that there are two camps, one that sits with the Defence Team, openly, and one that stands by the families. That's just what I see.