Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[girlhasnoname]

Yep and let’s just hope it’s not dragged out for another 18 months.

I'm afraid it might, the Defense keeps filing all these Motions even after requesting for a STM at the SCOIN hearing. I think the Defense needs time to get their own story together regarding their charges of Contempt by the State. D Hennessy is going to be representing R&B for that.

Unless Judge Gull holds their feet to the fire and insists on a reasonable trial date. I think the Oct date should still stand, after all, they have stated time and time again they are ready to go. I guess we'll see.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Agreed.

Virtual drop box -- online.

Physical drop box -- Marathon Gas Station

Central neutral locations, both, easy double blind to maintain anonymity...

The timing is all too tight for me.

Did KAK drop off a pre-loaded phone at the gas station and did RA pick it up?

Moreover, if a phone did change hands, then it's not impossible for KAK to have delivered a phone to Libby too. And for those phones to be synced to location, with Libby being altogether unaware she was carrying a real-time tracker.

JMO

I was thinking of KAK dropping off info and/or something physical to RA before the murders but it just as well could have been after the murders. Just some thoughts

 

[girlhasnoname]

The chain of custody is unknown to the public for all evidence in the US trials until the trial begins. That’s when the prosecution presents their case to the jury. If you watch the trial when it takes place, you’ll see LE and prosecution bring evidence into court along with chain of custody documentation. You’ll get to watch them unseal the wrapping, bags, etc.

But that only takes place during trial, in the courtroom. It’s entered into evidence and digitally filed for the public to view.

It seems hard for some to understand that the State does not disclose their evidence until trial, especially in a case with a gag and protection order in place.

R&B floated their 'evidence and theory' out to the public in their 136 page Franks Memo filed at 2:04 am, not marked Confidential because "Ooopsie, we didn't know silly us heehee" and they knew a Clerk would not be there to catch it, therefore it was seen by the masses who ran with it by early the next morning on MSM and SM.

They purposely wanted to get the public stirred up and questioning everything about LE and the arrest of RA by providing opinions and half truths and some out right incorrect statements.

This is the only case in my years of following on WebSleuths that I have ever seen any Defense do this, especially with a gag and protection order in place. It's unheard of really and the reason I don't trust or believe a word they say. No wonder Judge Gull was so worried. Even the SCOIN said they felt she had a genuine concern over their conduct, not bias.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

What is remarkable to me is that at the time Richard Allen is being interviewed in October 2022, he would have no way of knowing that Dulin, the conservation officer had lost the tape recording of the interview concerning when Richard Allen arrived and left the Monon High Bridge area. The fact that Richard Allen might have changed his story in October 2022 is also remarkable in that Richard Allen must have thought his previous tip report narrative would not be found, even if it was only written.

The testimony of the conservation officer, Dulin, is going to be damaging for the defense, especially combined with the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance video 1:27pm sighting of a car resembling a black Ford Focus heading towards the old CPS building. But since Dulin did not even record Richard Allen's last name correctly, people might be skeptical about what Dulin wrote about the timeline. It is strange how in this case Richard Allen provides so much of the evidence against him.

I think RA changed his statements to LE in Oct 2022 due to them having witness statements and time stamped photographs about when he was seen on the trails and the bridge backing up these statements. LE played him and RA fell in face first.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

IIRC it is extremely unusual for attorneys to face contempt in the first place.

I wonder if McL is in over his head on that charge.

Have you read Ausbrook's motion for denial?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Who said the bullet was planted? I’m lost where this came from?

Thread #161, post #122 is an example, although the poster doesn’t implicitly say LE planted it. I felt that it was insinuated.

Thread #167, post #267 describes how the bullet in evidence may not be the same one found at the crime scene.

That said, I understand your point, and the potential impact is that defense may call for the bullet to be excluded and not be admissible as evidence if the chain of custody was compromised.

I would like to understand the proposed implication of the potential loss of chain of custody of the bullet. All we have now is that the document wasn’t signed, which could just be a harmless omission.

Would the lack of signature be enough to exclude the bullet? Would defense have to support a theory that there was willful manipulation of the bullet‘s custody for it to be tossed out?

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder if McL is in over his head on that charge.

Have you read Ausbrook's motion for denial?

I skimmed over it but honestly I don't have much interest unless some more interesting facts come out. It's basically a form of discipline and not relevant to the trial anymore IMO

Great that they are well represented - and obviously it is serious as I understand it. You wouldn't normally expect to be held in contempt.

I think it's good that the first hearing is set back. There needs to be focus on the trial

 

[Salah11]

A Question for people who still believe KAk is involved.

Why do you believe in a theory that his own Defense are not even using for trial?

Let’s be honest a predator who lures children is a lot easier pill to swollen than a far fetched cult. Yet the Defense are sayings it’s a Cult not KAK so that would indicate there is nothing there.

Mooo

 

[girlhasnoname]

A Question for people who still believe KAk is involved.

Why do you believe in a theory that his own Defense are not even using for trial?

KAK could have provided information as a CI, we know he was talking with ISP during the search of the Wabash River. It didn't help KAK's sentencing he got 40+ years, which he absolutely deserves every single one of, but maybe he provided LE with information implicating some connection to RA during his many hours of interviews. IDK

The Odin ritual killing is far more interesting and salacious to the general public than RA being associated with a known and convicted CSAM inmate. Showing any connection with KAK by the defense would sink RA's battleship even faster.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Agreed.

Virtual drop box -- online.

Physical drop box -- Marathon Gas Station

Central neutral locations, both, easy double blind to maintain anonymity...

The timing is all too tight for me.

Did KAK drop off a pre-loaded phone at the gas station and did RA pick it up?

Moreover, if a phone did change hands, then it's not impossible for KAK to have delivered a phone to Libby too. And for those phones to be synced to location, with Libby being altogether unaware she was carrying a real-time tracker.

JMO

I wonder, who the mastermind behind all that might be.

 

[FromGermany1]

Agreed.

Virtual drop box -- online.

Physical drop box -- Marathon Gas Station

Central neutral locations, both, easy double blind to maintain anonymity...

The timing is all too tight for me.

Did KAK drop off a pre-loaded phone at the gas station and did RA pick it up?

Moreover, if a phone did change hands, then it's not impossible for KAK to have delivered a phone to Libby too. And for those phones to be synced to location, with Libby being altogether unaware she was carrying a real-time tracker.

JMO

I wonder, who the mastermind behind all that might be. KAK or RA or a third one?

 

[abams]

Thread #161, post #122 is an example, although the poster doesn’t implicitly say LE planted it. I felt that it was insinuated.

Thread #167, post #267 describes how the bullet in evidence may not be the same one found at the crime scene.

That said, I understand your point, and the potential impact is that defense may call for the bullet to be excluded and not be admissible as evidence if the chain of custody was compromised.

I would like to understand the proposed implication of the potential loss of chain of custody of the bullet. All we have now is that the document wasn’t signed, which could just be a harmless omission.

Would the lack of signature be enough to exclude the bullet? Would defense have to support a theory that there was willful manipulation of the bullet‘s custody for it to be tossed out?

bbm. If there is something unsigned I don't think it matters whether it was willful or not, with improper chain of custody documentation there will be admissibility issues (even setting aside the debate on the science of the underlying pattern-matching analysis). And if admitted it would be a big topic on appeal because what's the evidentiary value of something of unknown provenance or record?

 

[mrjitty]

A Question for people who still believe KAk is involved.

Why do you believe in a theory that his own Defense are not even using for trial?

Let’s be honest a predator who lures children is a lot easier pill to swollen than a far fetched cult. Yet the Defense are sayings it’s a Cult not KAK so that would indicate there is nothing there.

Mooo

I think it would be hard to argue at trial that KAK had not been exhaustively eliminated. The advantage of the Odinist theory seems to be they might be able to call law enforcement officers who believe there is something to it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if McL is in over his head on that charge.

Have you read Ausbrook's motion for denial?

I did actually and found it to be pompous and at times disrespectful 3 x "older than dirt". I'm not surprised, this seems to be the caliber of RA's Defense team and those associated with them, who also happen to be Defense related usually. It reminds of the saying "water seeks its own level".

There are good, professional Defense Attorneys out there, I've seen many in the cases on WS over the years, just not these.

It's a formal Motion to the Court, show some respect and professionalism, but after the FM, it seems like anything goes.

JMO

 

[Salah11]

I think it would be hard to argue at trial that KAK had not been exhaustively eliminated. The advantage of the Odinist theory seems to be they might be able to call law enforcement officers who believe there is something to it.

Yes this is my attitude towards him as a suspect. He has been looked at and raked over the coals a million times by LE no doubt looking for a connection and as far as everybody knows there simply isn’t one.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes this is my attitude towards him as a suspect. He has been looked at and raked over the coals a million times by LE no doubt looking for a connection and as far as everybody knows there simply isn’t one.

Yes, as far as everybody knows, but we don't know everything the State has as far as evidence yet. I'm not saying KAK or anyone related to him are 100% involved, but I think there are too many coincidences and the timing of everything to think there might not be a possibility of a connection somehow.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I did actually and found it to be pompous and at times disrespectful 3 x "older than dirt". I'm not surprised, this seems to be the caliber of RA's Defense team and those associated with them, who also happen to be Defense related usually. It reminds of the saying "water seeks its own level".

There are good, professional Defense Attorneys out there, I've seen many in the cases on WS over the years, just not these.

It's a formal Motion to the Court, show some respect and professionalism, but after the FM, it seems like anything goes.

JMO

Maybe he considered that "older than dirt" was a kinder, more amusing way of saying: "You should know better"?

 

[girlhasnoname]

RSABBM
Do you also believe that Scremin and Lebrato had “stars in their eyes?” They too believe RA is innocent and they corroborated Rozzi and Baldwin’s statements concerning the unusual treatment RA was receiving in prison. I find it rather hard to believe that they would jump on R & B’s bandwagon if they believed R & B were lying about the discovery especially since they had access to the discovery as well.

I’ll venture a guess that if RA ends up with two other attorneys that believe he’s innocent, the same accusations will be levelled at them! JMHO

Lebrato kind of walked that statement back:

<snipped & BBM>
“He’s always very respectful to us in our meetings with him,” Lebrato said. “I think he’s not guilty or innocent because I believe the presumption of innocence is one of the most important legal theories that we have. That presumption of innocence carries with him through every stage of the trial, until the jury has heard all the evidence, including closing arguments, and until they deliberate. That presumption of innocence follows him the whole way.”

And he also provided his thoughts on Judge Gull also:
“Judge Gull knows no other way than to be fair,” he said. “She does not play favorites. The Supreme Court didn’t pick her name out of a hat. They chose her for a specific reason. In their ruling, they unanimously voted that Judge Gull stays on this case.”

‘I’ve never seen so many twists and turns’: Former attorney for Delphi suspect Richard Allen discusses case

 

[girlhasnoname]

Maybe he considered that "older than dirt" was a kinder, more amusing way of saying: "You should know better"?

It's still disrespectful in a Motion filed to the Court. They're not supposed to be amusing, but factual. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

The wording is no DNA links him to the crime scene not the crime.

That doesn’t mean that DNA of the girls wasn’t found in his home, his car, etc.

Some crafty wordsmithing there by the Defence.

MOO

Agree, they're snookery like that.

MOO