Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

[sunshineray]

I wonder how long a judge is allowed to sit on motions. Is six months reasonable.
Her full order is in the spoiler for people who don't want to have to read it.
I've made the following brief summary of her order for myself and to share.
****************************
Defendant's Motion for Franks Hearing and associated documents
Filed Sept. 18, Oct. 2 and Oct 3 2023
Denied on Jan 22, 2024

State's Objection to Defendant's Motion to Suppress
State's Second Objection to Defendant's Motion to Suppress (filed ) under advisement,
Filed June 13, 2023
Filed on Sept 25, 2023
Under advisement on Jan 22. 2024

Defendant's Motion to Suppress Fruits of Search of 1967 North Whiteman Drive,
Filed on May 19, 2023
Denied Jan 22, 2024

Defendant's Motion in Limine Regarding Ballistics
Filed June 13, 2023 is
Reviewed and denied without hearing on Jan 22, 2024.

Motion to Transfer (by Labrato)
Filed January 12, 2024
Taken under advisement pending the State's response, if any,
and a hearing to be set.

02/08/2024 Order Issued
Motion to Transfer (by Labrato)
Filed January 12, 2024
Denies the Motion to Transfer without hearing.
Judicial Officer:Gull, Frances -SJ
Order Signed:02/08/2024

Spoiler: Judge Gull's Jan 22, 2024 Order

01/22/2024

Order Issued The Court, having had defendant's Motion for Franks Hearing (filed September 18, 2023), the Memorandum in Support of the Accused's Motion for Franks Hearing (filed September 18, 2023), defendant's Supplemental Motion for Franks Hearing (filed October 2, 2023), Defendant's Additional Franks Notice (filed October 3, 2023), the State's Objection to Defendant's Motion to Suppress (filed June 13, 2023), and the State's Second Objection to Defendant's Motion to Suppress (filed September 25, 2023) under advisement, now denies the Defendant's Motion for a Franks Hearing. The Court finds the Affidavit submitted in support of the issuance of the search warrant contained information that a reasonable belief existed that evidence of the murders would be found in the defendant's home and vehicles. The Court does not find that the Affidavit submitted false statements or that the Affiant omitted statements with reckless disregard, nor does the Court find that the Affiant intended to mislead the Judge by failing to present information. As the Court has found the Affidavit for issuance of the search warrant was valid, the search itself was reasonable and legal under Indiana law and Fourth Amendment case law. Defendant's Motion to Suppress Fruits of Search of 1967 North Whiteman Drive, Delphi, IN (filed May 19, 2023) is also denied based upon all the pleadings, memorandums, and exhibits previously submitted in support of the request for a Franks hearing. Defendant's Motion in Limine Regarding Ballistics (filed June 13, 2023) is reviewed and denied without hearing. The Court finds the evidence contained in Defendant's Exhibits A and B attached to the Motion is relevant and admissible. The Court further finds the probative value of such evidence is not substantially outweighed by its prejudicial impact, and that the evidence will not confuse or mislead the jury. Defendant's Motion to Transfer (filed January 12, 2024) taken under advisement pending the State's response, if any, and a hearing to be set. State's Motion to Amend Information (filed January 18, 2024) will be set for a remote hearing. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 01/22/2024

How long can a defense team sit on a signed speedy trial motion while complaining about their client's incarceration?

 

[sunshineray]

or perhaps ... this is not going to trial.

You're right, RA did confess no less than five times to his wife and mother. He just has to make the sixth time to the Prosecutor and the seventh time to the Judge.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Also...

I wonder about the few facts that we have. Or think we have. The discrepancies.

Going from memory here

1:30-3:30
12:30-1
Saw three juveniles
There were four
Looking at his phone
Looking at fish
Looking at stocks

Could it be that he was presplaining?

Could it be that, presented with facts, he adjusted his narrative?

As in, LE says we have four juveniles who saw you? That puts you on the bridge after 1:30. -- the group I saw was only 3.

LE: a lady saw you on the platform, she met A and L as they approached the bridge. You would have had to see them. Unless you're lying about that. -- I'm not lying. I was on my phone, I must not have noticed them.

LE: what about the lady? She saw you. On the platform. -- that must have been when I was watching fish. I left right after that. Sat on a bench. Looking at my phone. Then I went home at 1:30 or 2.

Seems criminals oftentimes find a way to mold their stories as they go.

JMO

When he mentioned the part about sitting on the bench I also speculated that he did so not to rest before going home but to wait and see if another potential victim may show up since that lady and the three teenage friends already left. If one did, he knew he could use the bridge to lay a trap to keep them from going back across by either both physically blocking them or immediately pulling out their gun. Almost like a predator staking claim for an area as it prepares to hunt its prey.

I remember hearing Libby and Abby mention the creepy guy and they seemed so uncomfortable, as would I, the closer he walked towards them as they finished crossing High Moon Bridge. I used to wonder too if BG/RA said anything to Libby and Abby that caused their instincts or internal alarm system to sound off. For example, other than just a mere “hello” did he ask if they were alone, what their names were and how long they would be in the park? If so, that could have been him using predatory tactics to help plan the vicious assault and murder of two girls, two fellow human beings, whose lives, safety and bodies he had absolutely no rights to.

 

[DeDee]

So the keepsake bullet found during SW was the same type as the one found at the crime scene? Perhaps it was the one he cycled at the MHB when he abducted the girls then took home as a souvenir.

Also upon reviewing the items seized during the SW, I see a miniature Katana sword with red tassel was on the list.
Has anyone discussed the anime series “One Piece” that features this sword and its Norse Mythology connection?
Would it be safe to assume RA was a consumer of this series if he possessed replica Katana sword?


Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home
Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home

So their killer not only told on himself for being at MHB while wearing jeans and a bleu or black jacket that fateful day but he also kept the bullet chambered through his gun at the Crime Scene in that special trinket box on the dresser plus he left one unspent shell buried in the ground at their CS? He also kept the gun he used to facilitate their kidnapping from Monon High Bridge that chambered the aforementioned bullets?

RA should have just wrapped his toys and presented the evidence on a silver platter.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Rather straight to any mental institution perhaps?

Nah, RA is 'crazy' like a fox IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

So their killer not only told on himself for being at MHB while wearing jeans and a bleu or black jacket that fateful day but he also kept the bullet chambered through his gun at the Crime Scene in that special trinket box on the dresser plus he left one unspent shell buried in the ground at their CS? He also kept the gun he used to facilitate their kidnapping from Monon High Bridge that chambered the aforementioned bullets?

RA should have just wrapped his toys and presented the evidence on a silver platter.

I believe RA basically did just that. I wonder if the missing underwear and sock were found during the SW? That would be the icing on the cake. He told CO he was there that day, no LE came knocking on his door after that so he probably thought he had gotten away with the murders.

Nobody can explain why killers do any of things they do. Most profilers say they tend to keep trophies from their crime(s) in order to relive the experience.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

When he mentioned the part about sitting on the bench I also speculated that he did so not to rest before going home but to wait and see if another potential victim may show up since that lady and the three teenage friends already left. If one did, he knew he could use the bridge to lay a trap to keep them from going back across by either both physically blocking them or immediately pulling out their gun. Almost like a predator staking claim for an area as it prepares to hunt its prey.

I remember hearing Libby and Abby mention the creepy guy and they seemed so uncomfortable, as would I, the closer he walked towards them as they finished crossing High Moon Bridge. I used to wonder too if BG/RA said anything to Libby and Abby that caused their instincts or internal alarm system to sound off. For example, other than just a mere “hello” did he ask if they were alone, what their names were and how long they would be in the park? If so, that could have been him using predatory tactics to help plan the vicious assault and murder of two girls, two fellow human beings, whose lives, safety and bodies he had absolutely no rights to.

Agree, no resting or watching fish. I think RA sat there making sure no-one else had crossed the bridge. He knew he could get the girls DTH and out of sight quickly with a pistol aimed at them. He waited until they passed and then followed closely behind them IMO.

Libby was smart enough to see him behind Abby and filmed him, I think she knew something was not right.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Maybe the old/new D never reviewed it all so there are things that seem new to them now...and maybe the dog ate the stuff that's missing OR the former replacement D never returned it all to the State? Maybe they can ask that youtuber, I think it was said they sent him ALL the discovery?

Tell me you're in no way ready without telling me you're not ready. Hah

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

After reading McLeland’s statements about advocating against the revictimization of the families, I do wonder between pursuing charges of contempt at the risk of delaying the start date of the trial and dropping them to maintain the October 2024 start date, which one option do the loved ones of Abby Williams and Libby German generally prefer? I know they can’t speak publicly but was curious to learn how that process works in the state of Indiana or if there is one in which families get involved?

Anna Williams, Carrie Timmons, Mike and Becky Patty mentioned in their 2022 interviews that the arrest brought some sense of relief because children’s murderer could no longer hurt anybody else and they would finally get some answers. On the other hand, they felt overwhelmed with a similar sense of grief and loss that they experienced on February 13th, 2017 because BG’s/RA’s arrest didn’t bring their daughters/sisters back and they still live each day wondering what would Abby and Libby say to them right now. Those type of emotions, conflicts and experiences may impact their needs right now and their expectation for when and how long they will have to wait to get closure from trial.

Also, I wonder how they all feel about putting DP on the table versus life in-prison or whatever else is available for sentencing. Carrie Timmons mentioned that she thought death would be too good for the man who murdered her daughter because he needs to suffer for a very long time for the pain he caused her daughter and Abigail. I read on the site attached below mentions that survivors and families of murdered victims of those convicted and sentenced to death have a longer healing process than those of their their counterparts who participated in cases in which the perps received sentences in life in prison. This is mostly due to because to multiple appeals processes and trials of which those that sentenced to death are entitled. Their counterparts on the other hand report much better experiences working with the courts legal team and often have the time and opportunity to engage with counseling and support group geared towards survivors and co-victims. Many families also report feeling numb or void of hollowed out instead of the sense of victory, revenge or even justice that they expected after the execution is carried.

I am definitely am not in any place to judge or put my two cents in what the loved ones of Libby and Abby should think or pursue. Unlike them, my family fortunately didn’t have to choose with my brother’s murder case because the prosecutor already intended to pursue life in prison and my parents agreed with it. I have never had to make the type of decisions or input they may be asked to and know their families, their daughters and values better than I do as they seek justice for their loved one.

 

[girlhasnoname]

How long can a defense team sit on a signed speedy trial motion while complaining about their client's incarceration?

Yes, they've had it signed by RA since August, all they need to do is slap a date on it and file it. Of course, IMO that won't happen because they are simply not ready, or even close, to conducting a competent defense of RA. That was Judge Gull's issue when she DQ'd them. Right thought, wrong procedural action.

At least the SCOIN got it on the record that by reinstating B&R RA waived use of ineffective counsel on appeal should he be found guilty.

MOO

 

[MuddyTires]

The trial, against RA, hasn't started yet. We don't know the complete evidence the prosecution has against RA. However we do know, since it was said in open court before a judge, that RA has confessed to murdering Abby and Libby...to his wife and mother, not interrogators...no less than five times on recorded prison phone calls. Go figure that one!

Have the audio recordings or transcripts of those recorded been released?

 

[MuddyTires]

Because he confessed no less than five times? Lawyers are getting paid to "believe" him.

Have the audio recordings or transcripts of these five confessions been released?

 

[DeDee]

Have the audio recordings or transcripts of these five confessions been released?

No, Muddy Tires, the recordings nor the transcripts of the phone conversations between RA and KA haven't been released. Ditto for any conversations with his mom. They are alleged to contain confessions to the murders of Libby and Abby. We've heard jailhouse calls in other cases before (DanMarkel, AlexMurdaugh) so I don't know why someone hasn't applied a FOIA request for them.

It's been said RA may have been coerced into confessing due to the Odin Guard at Westville who controlled him for much of his tormented imprisonment. Who knows what may have prompted the alleged confessions and did he reveal any key CS details? Maybe he confessed to being an Odinist, too.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

No, Muddy Tires, the recordings nor the transcripts of the phone conversations between RA and KA haven't been released. Ditto for any conversations with his mom. They are alleged to contain confessions to the murders of Libby and Abby. We've heard jailhouse calls in other cases before (DanMarkel, AlexMurdaugh) so I don't know why someone hasn't applied a FOIA request for them.

It's been said RA may have been coerced into confessing due to the Odin Guard at Westville who controlled him for much of his tormented imprisonment. Who knows what may have prompted the alleged confessions and did he reveal any key CS details? Maybe he confessed to being an Odinist, too.

MOO

I'm waiting for those crime scene details that no one except the killer knows.
I'm guessing those confessions are sealed; otherwise they would be splattered all over the net.

 

[mrjitty]

It's quite correct that the confessions/admissions are not public. It hasn't been ruled whether they are admissible. Under no circumstances would the defence want them out there

 

[mrjitty]

No, Muddy Tires, the recordings nor the transcripts of the phone conversations between RA and KA haven't been released. Ditto for any conversations with his mom. They are alleged to contain confessions to the murders of Libby and Abby. We've heard jailhouse calls in other cases before (DanMarkel, AlexMurdaugh) so I don't know why someone hasn't applied a FOIA request for them.

It's been said RA may have been coerced into confessing due to the Odin Guard at Westville who controlled him for much of his tormented imprisonment. Who knows what may have prompted the alleged confessions and did he reveal any key CS details? Maybe he confessed to being an Odinist, too.

MOO

Why would anyone be able to FOIA critical trial evidence before the trial?

Publishing that content pre trial could be prejudicial to the defence. Not everything is a conspiracy guys! That is why Rozzi only mentioned their existence but did not discuss the content at the hearing for example.

 

[MuddyTires]

No, Muddy Tires, the recordings nor the transcripts of the phone conversations between RA and KA haven't been released. Ditto for any conversations with his mom. They are alleged to contain confessions to the murders of Libby and Abby. We've heard jailhouse calls in other cases before (DanMarkel, AlexMurdaugh) so I don't know why someone hasn't applied a FOIA request for them.

It's been said RA may have been coerced into confessing due to the Odin Guard at Westville who controlled him for much of his tormented imprisonment. Who knows what may have prompted the alleged confessions and did he reveal any key CS details? Maybe he confessed to being an Odinist, too.

MOO

Thank you.

It's quite correct that the confessions/admissions are not public. It hasn't been ruled whether they are admissible. Under no circumstances would the defence want them out there

So I assume then you haven't heard the recordings of the calls or read the transcripts of the calls. How then can you be certain that under no circumstances would the defense want them out there?

 

[mrjitty]

Thank you.


So I assume then you haven't heard the recordings of the calls or read the transcripts of the calls. How then can you be certain that under no circumstances would the defense want them out there?

Nothing was stopping Rozzi from discussing the specific content at the hearing when the existence of the admissions was revealed. Both counsel quite correctly did not do this because the defence may challenge admissibility pre-trial

Defence strategy appears to be to claim the confessions were coerced. To have the content come out pretrial without that context and heard by potential jurors could be prejudicial.

 

[susiQ]

I'm waiting for those crime scene details that no one except the killer knows.

RSBM
You must be referring to EF’s confession to his sisters? Yeah, nobody wants to talk about those!!

 

[Justice101]

After reading McLeland’s statements about advocating against the revictimization of the families, I do wonder between pursuing charges of contempt at the risk of delaying the start date of the trial and dropping them to maintain the October 2024 start date, which one option do the loved ones of Abby Williams and Libby German generally prefer? I know they can’t speak publicly but was curious to learn how that process works in the state of Indiana or if there is one in which families get involved?

Anna Williams, Carrie Timmons, Mike and Becky Patty mentioned in their 2022 interviews that the arrest brought some sense of relief because children’s murderer could no longer hurt anybody else and they would finally get some answers. On the other hand, they felt overwhelmed with a similar sense of grief and loss that they experienced on February 13th, 2017 because BG’s/RA’s arrest didn’t bring their daughters/sisters back and they still live each day wondering what would Abby and Libby say to them right now. Those type of emotions, conflicts and experiences may impact their needs right now and their expectation for when and how long they will have to wait to get closure from trial.

Also, I wonder how they all feel about putting DP on the table versus life in-prison or whatever else is available for sentencing. Carrie Timmons mentioned that she thought death would be too good for the man who murdered her daughter because he needs to suffer for a very long time for the pain he caused her daughter and Abigail. I read on the site attached below mentions that survivors and families of murdered victims of those convicted and sentenced to death have a longer healing process than those of their their counterparts who participated in cases in which the perps received sentences in life in prison. This is mostly due to because to multiple appeals processes and trials of which those that sentenced to death are entitled. Their counterparts on the other hand report much better experiences working with the courts legal team and often have the time and opportunity to engage with counseling and support group geared towards survivors and co-victims. Many families also report feeling numb or void of hollowed out instead of the sense of victory, revenge or even justice that they expected after the execution is carried.

I am definitely am not in any place to judge or put my two cents in what the loved ones of Libby and Abby should think or pursue. Unlike them, my family fortunately didn’t have to choose with my brother’s murder case because the prosecutor already intended to pursue life in prison and my parents agreed with it. I have never had to make the type of decisions or input they may be asked to and know their families, their daughters and values better than I do as they seek justice for their loved one.

Why wife's father was killed by a serial killer when my wife was only 9 years old. The killer was caught and convicted several years later.

The pain of that loss haunts her to this day. She experiences major abandonment fears that come out as latching onto and almost smothering people who are dear to her.

Everyone has their own journey when dealing with murder in their family.