Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[photographer4]

The most responsible decision as RA's defense counsel may have been to help broker a guilty plea, a long year ago. He has the right to plead guilty.

JMO

If he did not do it and the defense doesn’t believe the state has the evidence to support their case, why would they help broker a plea deal? I wouldn’t if I were RA’s counsel. A deal makes more sense if the State has a super strong case and it’s highly unlikely a jury would find him innocent. Continuing to fight makes me think that RA’s lawyers believe he could walk completely if a jury doesn’t buy into whatever the state is selling.

Or - it could be that the idea of a plea has been floated by RA and he has refused. He doesn’t have to take advice of his counsel. He can instruct them to fight the charges through even if counsel doesn’t think he has any shot at freedom.

 

[sunshineray]

If he did not do it and the defense doesn’t believe the state has the evidence to support their case, why would they help broker a plea deal? I wouldn’t if I were RA’s counsel. A deal makes more sense if the State has a super strong case and it’s highly unlikely a jury would find him innocent. Continuing to fight makes me think that RA’s lawyers believe he could walk completely if a jury doesn’t buy into whatever the state is selling.

Or - it could be that the idea of a plea has been floated by RA and he has refused. He doesn’t have to take advice of his counsel. He can instruct them to fight the charges through even if counsel doesn’t think he has any shot at freedom.

But aren't you dismissing the evidence that RA himself has given dozens of times? He keeps admitting his guilt, over and over.

 

[girlhasnoname]

It always says that on the filings...RA requests this or that

I agree it says filed by Richard Allen but it typically says his lawyers on his behalf, not IDOC. Or am I dreaming lol?

 

[sunshineray]

I agree it says filed by Richard Allen but it typically says his lawyers on his behalf, not IDOC. Or am I dreaming lol?

Haha! The IDOC was worried about turning over employee information to the defense, very understandable. So I'm guessing their lawyers said, hang on! we want stipulations made before we give you people's information. Good for them in watching out for their employees whose jobs are already tough without having to worried that their private info is going to wind up on youtube et al. JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Haha! The IDOC was worried about turning over employee information to the defense, very understandable. So I'm guessing their lawyers said, hang on! we want stipulations made before we give you people's information. Good for them in watching out for their employees whose jobs are already tough without having to worried that their private info is going to wind up on youtube et al. JMO

MOO
It's nothing to get excited about; sounds pretty standard.
They cite Indiana Trial Rule 26(C).

A word of caution to all FB users: Don't put your personal information on the internet and then be surprised that the world is viewing it via YouTube.

 

[sunshineray]

MOO
It's nothing to get excited about; sounds pretty standard.
They cite Indiana Trial Rule 26(C).

A word of caution to all FB users: Don't put your personal information on the internet and then be surprised that the world is viewing it via YouTube.

Employee records can have much different information than what people put on a Facebook or any other social media platform, like SS#, phone numbers and address etc...MO

 

[photographer4]

But aren't you dismissing the evidence that RA himself has given dozens of times? He keeps admitting his guilt, over and over.

I am yes. Because I’m aware the being in solitary confinement can make people who were previously sane, lose their minds a bit. I think he probably did it or had a part in it. But if his legal team isn’t pursuing a plea deal, I wonder why not? There must be a reason surely.

 

[Willow Knight]

Haha! The IDOC was worried about turning over employee information to the defense, very understandable. So I'm guessing their lawyers said, hang on! we want stipulations made before we give you people's information. Good for them in watching out for their employees whose jobs are already tough without having to worried that their private info is going to wind up on youtube et al. JMO

This really concerns me. I certainly hope if employment records are being requested there is an honest reason that is relevant to the charges against Richard Allen. This attacking a person's reputation should be illegal! Past accusations regarding prison guards is my main concern. To my knowledge Richard Allen has never said Prison guards were in a hate cult threatening him or his family. I think Richard Allen has destroyed enough lives. Unless someone has another source the only person that I know of that Richard Allen has stated was himself. This is about the murder of Abby and Libby. Let's get Richard Allen to trial and stop the circus.

 

[steeltowngirl]

This really concerns me. I certainly hope if employment records are being requested there is an honest reason that is relevant to the charges against Richard Allen. This attacking a person's reputation should be illegal! Past accusations regarding prison guards is my main concern. To my knowledge Richard Allen has never said Prison guards were in a hate cult threatening him or his family. I think Richard Allen has destroyed enough lives. Unless someone has another source the only person that I know of that Richard Allen has stated was himself. This is about the murder of Abby and Libby. Let's get Richard Allen to trial and stop the circus.

His lawyers did claim that on his behalf. Thing is, how would he know anything about Odin patches, if he has no connection to Odinism, as he has claimed? His claims of no connection were to support his theory that Odinists killed Abby and Libby, therefore, it could not have been him. So… he knew nothing about Odinism until prison… and once there he tied together prison guards with Odinism and also solved the murders? That’s sus.

Also, why are his incoherent ramblings about prison guards to be taken seriously, but his confessions are not?

jmo

Additionally, Allen's attorneys claim some of the Department of Correction workers overseeing him at Westville Correctional Facility are Odinists. The attorneys claim the correctional officers have "monitored, intimidated, and mentally abused" Allen. His attorneys also claim Allen "mumbled in a somewhat incoherent fashion that Odinites were threatening him."

Richard Allen's attorneys name Purdue professor and say police hid statement on Odinist connection to Delphi killings

The court documents claim the crime scene had pagan symbols formed with sticks, with tree branches and on a tree.

www.wthr.com

 

[tlcya]

His lawyers did claim that on his behalf. Thing is, how would he know anything about Odin patches, if he has no connection to Odinism, as he has claimed? His claims of no connection were to support his theory that Odinists killed Abby and Libby, therefore, it could not have been him. So… he knew nothing about Odinism until prison… and once there he tied together prison guards with Odinism and also solved the murders? That’s sus.

Also, why are his incoherent ramblings about prison guards to be taken seriously, but his confessions are not?
Snipped By@tlcya for focus

THIS. Thank you, it simply makes zero sense.

 

[sunshineray]

I am yes. Because I’m aware the being in solitary confinement can make people who were previously sane, lose their minds a bit. I think he probably did it or had a part in it. But if his legal team isn’t pursuing a plea deal, I wonder why not? There must be a reason surely.

I think their reasons are purely their own and ultimately not in their client's best interests.
AJMO

 

[photographer4]

His lawyers did claim that on his behalf. Thing is, how would he know anything about Odin patches, if he has no connection to Odinism, as he has claimed? His claims of no connection were to support his theory that Odinists killed Abby and Libby, therefore, it could not have been him. So… he knew nothing about Odinism until prison… and once there he tied together prison guards with Odinism and also solved the murders? That’s sus.

Also, why are his incoherent ramblings about prison guards to be taken seriously, but his confessions are not?

jmo

Additionally, Allen's attorneys claim some of the Department of Correction workers overseeing him at Westville Correctional Facility are Odinists. The attorneys claim the correctional officers have "monitored, intimidated, and mentally abused" Allen. His attorneys also claim Allen "mumbled in a somewhat incoherent fashion that Odinites were threatening him."

Richard Allen's attorneys name Purdue professor and say police hid statement on Odinist connection to Delphi killings

The court documents claim the crime scene had pagan symbols formed with sticks, with tree branches and on a tree.

www.wthr.com

We can take this seriously because it IS serious! Why on earth would a Corrections Officer ever be allowed to wear a symbol / badge / affiliation / slogan / political statement etc (I’m not just talking about Odin stuff) to work?? How is that appropriate?? Would you allow a staffer to wear political badges or slogans? How about gang insignia (eg: bloods or crips)? Would you allow pro/anti abortion badges etc? Of course not - so how are Odin symbols / patches permissable? Funny they had to remove the patches after the D raised concerns about them in their legal paperwork... and then... one lovely staffer got a symbol tattoo... on his FACE. If that isn't a giant F-you to the higher ups and everyone else, I'm not sure I know what is? I'd love to know when that particular guy booked himself in for that particular tattoo session... was this before or after he was told to remove patch? EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo
In a professional capacity, no one should be donning such symbols / statements in my view. Its just not acceptable and is bound to create problems where perhaps there wouldn't have been otherwise. Leave your politics and affiliations at home.

 

[steeltowngirl]

We can take this seriously because it IS serious! Why on earth would a Corrections Officer ever be allowed to wear a symbol / badge / affiliation / slogan / political statement etc (I’m not just talking about Odin stuff) to work?? How is that appropriate?? Would you allow a staffer to wear political badges or slogans? How about gang insignia (eg: bloods or crips)? Would you allow pro/anti abortion badges etc? Of course not - so how are Odin symbols / patches permissable? Funny they had to remove the patches after the D raised concerns about them in their legal paperwork... and then... one lovely staffer got a symbol tattoo... on his FACE. If that isn't a giant F-you to the higher ups and everyone else, I'm not sure I know what is? I'd love to know when that particular guy booked himself in for that particular tattoo session... was this before or after he was told to remove patch? EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo
In a professional capacity, no one should be donning such symbols / statements in my view. Its just not acceptable and is bound to create problems where perhaps there wouldn't have been otherwise. Leave your politics and affiliations at home.

I don’t work there and don’t know their policies on attire or tattoos. Maybe the guards like to look scary. It’s a prison, not a day care.

If we are to take RA’s incoherent assertions seriously, then we can’t pick or choose. Did guards threaten him? Did he confess? What is to be believed? Is he mentally stable?

And.. where is he?

 

[sunshineray]

We can take this seriously because it IS serious! Why on earth would a Corrections Officer ever be allowed to wear a symbol / badge / affiliation / slogan / political statement etc (I’m not just talking about Odin stuff) to work?? How is that appropriate?? Would you allow a staffer to wear political badges or slogans? How about gang insignia (eg: bloods or crips)? Would you allow pro/anti abortion badges etc? Of course not - so how are Odin symbols / patches permissable? Funny they had to remove the patches after the D raised concerns about them in their legal paperwork... and then... one lovely staffer got a symbol tattoo... on his FACE. If that isn't a giant F-you to the higher ups and everyone else, I'm not sure I know what is? I'd love to know when that particular guy booked himself in for that particular tattoo session... was this before or after he was told to remove patch? EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo
In a professional capacity, no one should be donning such symbols / statements in my view. Its just not acceptable and is bound to create problems where perhaps there wouldn't have been otherwise. Leave your politics and affiliations at home.

Would you say the same about at a cross, a star and crescent moon, an ankh, a peacock, a harp, a wheel, a thunderbird, yin yang, praying hands, a lotus flower and so many more?

 

[Ravenmoon]

We can take this seriously because it IS serious! Why on earth would a Corrections Officer ever be allowed to wear a symbol / badge / affiliation / slogan / political statement etc (I’m not just talking about Odin stuff) to work?? How is that appropriate?? Would you allow a staffer to wear political badges or slogans? How about gang insignia (eg: bloods or crips)? Would you allow pro/anti abortion badges etc? Of course not - so how are Odin symbols / patches permissable? Funny they had to remove the patches after the D raised concerns about them in their legal paperwork... and then... one lovely staffer got a symbol tattoo... on his FACE. If that isn't a giant F-you to the higher ups and everyone else, I'm not sure I know what is? I'd love to know when that particular guy booked himself in for that particular tattoo session... was this before or after he was told to remove patch? EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo
In a professional capacity, no one should be donning such symbols / statements in my view. Its just not acceptable and is bound to create problems where perhaps there wouldn't have been otherwise. Leave your politics and affiliations at home.

Would you be upset if a guard wore a crucifix or had a tattoo of a cross visible?

It's a symbol of faith.
That can be a slippery slope.
If religious freedom is in question, there could be repercussions for the employer.

JMO

 

[nadia90]

We can take this seriously because it IS serious! Why on earth would a Corrections Officer ever be allowed to wear a symbol / badge / affiliation / slogan / political statement etc (I’m not just talking about Odin stuff) to work?? How is that appropriate?? Would you allow a staffer to wear political badges or slogans? How about gang insignia (eg: bloods or crips)? Would you allow pro/anti abortion badges etc? Of course not - so how are Odin symbols / patches permissable? Funny they had to remove the patches after the D raised concerns about them in their legal paperwork... and then... one lovely staffer got a symbol tattoo... on his FACE. If that isn't a giant F-you to the higher ups and everyone else, I'm not sure I know what is? I'd love to know when that particular guy booked himself in for that particular tattoo session... was this before or after he was told to remove patch? EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo
In a professional capacity, no one should be donning such symbols / statements in my view. Its just not acceptable and is bound to create problems where perhaps there wouldn't have been otherwise. Leave your politics and affiliations at home.

Blinders

 

[photographer4]

I don’t work there and don’t know their policies on attire or tattoos. Maybe the guards like to look scary. It’s a prison, not a day care.

If we are to take RA’s incoherent assertions seriously, then we can’t pick or choose. Did guards threaten him? Did he confess? What is to be believed? Is he mentally stable?

And.. where is he?

It’s not a daycare. It’s a corrections facility. Staff should be neutral in their attire lest someone feel threatened or intimidated by the staff’s affiliations. It’s just not a good look for the facility imo - it allows the lawyers for the accused to waste time complaining about the attire of the guards in court proceedings vs focusing on their client’s potential innocence (unlikely in this case, he prob did it or had a hand in it!). If staff were not permitted to dress in this manner it would have circumvented this issue as possibly becoming a side show.

RA has “confessed”. Apparently many times to various people. But because the staff are “intimidating” him due to their apparent affiliations with Odinism, the lawyers may get away with asserting that he only did so because of their influence over his mental health & well being.

It’s just a lot of drama that could have been avoided if the staff had been dressed in neutral standard issue uniforms is all.

 

[photographer4]

Would you say the same about at a cross, a star and crescent moon, an ankh, a peacock, a harp, a wheel, a thunderbird, yin yang, praying hands, a lotus flower and so many more?

Yes. I would. They should wear standard issue (neutral) uniforms. If the entire staff wear uniforms with rubber ducks on them, or butterflies. So long as they all wear the same thing. If Indiana wants their staff to wear Odin Patches that’s fine so long as they ALL wear the same thing.

 

[photographer4]

Would you be upset if a guard wore a crucifix or had a tattoo of a cross visible?

It's a symbol of faith.
That can be a slippery slope.
If religious freedom is in question, there could be repercussions for the employer.

JMO

The way to avoid the slippery slope in my view is to not allow staff to add /remove things to / from the standard issue uniform. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[snooptroop88]

It’s not a daycare. It’s a corrections facility. Staff should be neutral in their attire lest someone feel threatened or intimidated by the staff’s affiliations. It’s just not a good look for the facility imo - it allows the lawyers for the accused to waste time complaining about the attire of the guards in court proceedings vs focusing on their client’s potential innocence (unlikely in this case, he prob did it or had a hand in it!). If staff were not permitted to dress in this manner it would have circumvented this issue as possibly becoming a side show.

RA has “confessed”. Apparently many times to various people. But because the staff are “intimidating” him due to their apparent affiliations with Odinism, the lawyers may get away with asserting that he only did so because of their influence over his mental health & well being.

It’s just a lot of drama that could have been avoided if the staff had been dressed in neutral standard issue uniforms is all.

There's no way I think these guards are part of a sinister Odinite plot against RA, and the Franks does definitely imply this. I have no idea how RA made the connection between their patches/symbols/tattoos and Odinism and the murders, and the Franks isn't telling us. That's a real issue, honestly. How'd he make that connection? Why'd RA think this was the reason guards were creating situations for him? We don't know after 136 pages (including footnotes).

If the Franks didn't refer to the supposed conspirators as a "religious cult," and instead referred to them as a gang/Vinlanders, that would probably have helped tremendously, but the guards are probably not Vinlanders and the guards are now possibly protesting the accusations against them because 1) they may not be factually true, and 2) they personally may view what they are practicing as a legitimate religion not associated with white nationalism.

RA arguably created a dangerous situation by confessing in prison he murdered two children. With all of this said, like lots of people on here, I also wish US prisons were safer and more humane places generally. Part of the reason I would personally have so much difficulty in serving as a juror and sending someone to a prison is that I don't see the point of people screaming over government death penalty policy if defendants are just going to be sent to prison and perhaps given a makeshift death penalty by another prisoner.